The procedure that the Humphrey bill envisions is like the NLRB. Our procedures, I suppose, are more like other Federal regulatory agencies

Senator CLARK. Or the Interstate Commerce Commission.

Mr. SHULMAN. Or the SEC, and we do have the capacity to bring charges on our own motion through individual Commissioners. If an individual Commissioner does file a charge, he does not participate in the adjudication of that charge.

Senator CLARK. How do you assign duties—or how does the Commission, under your chairmanship, assign duties to the individual Commissioners? Perhaps at some point the two Commissioners with you would like to comment on their own duties. Perhaps you would speak first as to who you tell to do what or who does the Commission tell to do what, or do you just act as a group of five without any individual responsibility?

Mr. SHULMAN. The major role that the Commissioners have, and I certainly think, as you do, that they should have the opportunity to comment on that role, is in the process of deciding individual cases.

We have a caseload, as I indicated, of some 10,000 complaints a year, and at the present time we make reasonable cause determinations as a Commission. The writing of those decisions is an enormous task, one in which I regret to say we are currently backlogged and one that keeps our Commissioners quite busy.

Senator CLARK. It is kind of the way a court would do it, isn't it? Mr. SHULMAN. Yes, very much that way.

In addition, we have used individual Commissioners in a series of administrative assignments on an ad hoc basis. For example, Commissioner Jackson is currently leading a task force which is reviewing our investigation procedures and developing improved formats for use in speeding up that process.

Vice Chairman Holcomb shares the administration responsibility with me. We have two vacancies at the moment and so those slots are not performing anything.

Senator CLARK. There is one appointment which has not yet been confirmed; is that correct? In due course hopefully you only will have one vacancy. You really need five, don't you?

Mr. SHULMAN. The statute calls for five and we can use five. Senator CLARK. Is there any distinction between the Commissioners on a geographical basis?

Mr. SHULMAN. Each Commissioner at one time had a geographic orientation, when there were five. Now with three, the Commissioners take a greater or lesser degree of interest in given regions of the country, as they reflect their own background and experience, but we do not divide cases up in any geographical manner.

Senator CLARK. I would like to hear briefly from Commissioner Jackson and then Commissioner Holcomb as to your reactions to the job and any frustrations you may find in it and my rewarding parts that you find in it, too.

I would like to get something on the record as to how you gentlemen think this present process is working, whether it needs any legis lative overhaul. I am fairly sure it does need some legislative oversight.

Mr. JACKSON. Senator, in terms of the structure itself, I believe that it is working well. I believe that S. 1308, the bill that is before us, will

permit us to do our job much more effectively. I do not feel that the Humphrey bill approach would enable the Commission to better perform its job. Indeed, I have found that the experience of five Commissioners with our varied backgrounds is essential to the development of the processes of the Commission, and I think it would be a setback to the success that the Commission has enjoyed to date to separate it by having a strong executive director handle the prosecutorial role, as you have suggested.

Senator CLARK. Mr. Holcomb?

Mr. HOLCOMB. Senator, I think the frustrations that you mentioned are to be expected with an agency being so new. I am in hearty accord with what Commissioner Jackson has just said. At different times I felt it could be good if there could be a clarification as to the intent of Congress, such as on matters whether we are to preempt State laws, especially in regard to the sex provision.

Senator CLARK. Thank you, Commissioner.

Mr. Shulman, in your statement you refer to your budget, the size of your authorized staff, and then you state that most of the Commission personnel serve eleven field offices covering the entire country and work closely with other Federal agencies and with the local and State fair employment practices commissions.

What are the administrative lines of control by which the work of the 11 field offices is coordinated from Washington? What is the workflow from the field offices up to Washington?

Mr. SHULMAN. The Commission, Mr. Chairman, is staffed relevantly for this purpose with the following key positions: Staff Director, Deputy Staff Director, Director of Compliance, which is

Senator CLARK. Director of what?

Mr. SHULMAN. Compliance, which is the complaint program; and Director of Technical Assistance.

The Director of Technical Assistance and the Director of Compliance oversee in a policy sort of way what is done in the field in the voluntary program of technical assistance or in the compliance program of complaint processing.

The regional directors report to the Deputy Staff Director. Through the Staff Director's overall administrative control of the Commission and through the regional directors reporting to his deputy, we feel we have achieved a good administrative control and understanding of what is going on in the field and relating it to what is going on in headquarters.

Senator CLARK. Do the field offices do anything with respect to the investigation of complaints?

Mr. SHULMAN. Yes, excuse me, Senator, I should have brought that out. All investigations are conducted in the field.

The Commission is essentially a field organization and it is in the process of flux in that regard. We started out as a headquarters organization, as we learned what we were doing, and are gradually moving to the field. The investigation process is now entirely in the field. The reasonable cause determination process is entirely at headquarters with the Commission, and the conciliation process is now moving to the field. It had been at headquarters.

Senator CLARK. At the end of a field investigation of a complaint, is a recommendation with respect to reasonable cause forwarded to

Washington or does the case just come up without any recommendation from the field?

Mr. SHULMAN. There is a recommendation made by the regional director; the Director of Compliance also makes a recommendation; and the Commission then makes a determination.

Senator CLARK. Without a hearing?

Mr. SHULMAN. There is no hearing. It makes it on the basis of the investigation report.

Senator CLARK. I note you say that the number of charges which have been scheduled for investigation through April 12, 1967, was over 7,000, of which 3,500 were in the process of or pending investigation, and the other 3,500 had been completed. Conciliation had been completed in 819.

Does conciliation precede a determination of reasonable cause? Mr. SHULMAN. No, exactly the opposite, sir. The system is investigation in the field, determination of reasonable cause by the Commission

Senator CLARK. On recommendation from the field?

Mr. SHULMAN. Yes, but the recommendation is rejected in many instances.

Senator CLARK. Yes.

Mr. SHULMAN. And then conciliation

Senator CLARK. Return to the field for conciliation.

Mr. SHULMAN. We are in the process of making the basic procedure, Up until now the system has been that persons staffing a national office of conciliations go into the field to do the conciliation, but the process of conciliation will henceforth be done mostly in the field.

Senator CLARK. Now, is there any geographical pattern with respect to those complaints where you find a reasonable cause? Are there certain areas of the country which have far fewer complaints than others?

Mr. SHULMAN. I have a detailed breakdown of complaints by State which I would be happy to give you, Senator, or I can read off some of the statistics to you right now, if you would like.

Senator CLARK. I would like to have you file with the subcommittee the detailed statement which you have in your possession, but I would like to ask you the general question as to whether there is a disproportionate number of complaints and findings of reasonable cause from any particular geographical area of the country.

Mr. SHULMAN. I would say that it would be difficult, indeed, for the Commission to conclude that the problem of employment discrimination is regional; that all the indexes are that it is a national problem. We receive complaints from every State, and I would hesitate greatly to draw any conclusions on the basis of 2 years' experience.

For example, the State from which we received the greatest number of complaints in our first year was not at all the State from which we received the greatest number of complaints in our second year.

Senator CLARK. Why don't you tell us what those two States were? Mr. SHULMAN. I will have to dig that out. The State in our first year with the greatest number of complaints was North Carolina. Senator CLARK. Perhaps a staff member behind you could dig that out while we go ahead.

Mr. SHULMAN. Fine.