While some aspect of the broad "civil rights front" has been a perennial national preoccupation for over a quarter of a century, it has been over 10 years since the House of Representatives has held hearings on a bill dealing solely with equal opportunity in employment. I know that this subcommittee and its fine staff have given unstintingly of their time and energy to the hearings, research, and discussions in preparing this proposed legislation. Your great efforts are deserving of the appreciation and the support of the entire Nation.

It need not be emphasized here that what we do in the area of equal employment opportunity, as well as all other areas related to civil rights is of international significance. Employment discrimination can only weaken our capacity to resist aggression and maintain the peace. It also casts doubts in the minds of other peoples of the free world about our sincerity in furthering the cause of individual liberty and human dignity.

With confidence in the morality of full and equal rights for all citizens, and full awareness of the implications of failure to advance these rights—particuularly in our time with its prospects for continuing competition between ideologies of democracy and those which would make individual rights subservient to the needs of the State-this administration has wasted no time in addressing itself to these problems whenever and wherever they arise.

I do not believe that it can be fairly disputed that this administration has set an example in the use of existing powers of the Executive and in the enforcement of the letter and spirit of existing laws to the end of achieving equality of opportunity. As you are well aware, Executive orders in this area, and committees established thereunder, have been a part of the paraphernalia of Government since they were given impetus by the distinguished father of the distinguished chairman of this subcommittee.

Except for a brief period during World War II, efforts under these committees have been given only limited support and have had only limited success. However, I am particularly proud of the activities of the Committee on Equal Employment Opportunities headed by our distinguished Vice President and of the substantial progress which has been made by this administration on a broad front in its relentless efforts to eliminate employment discrimination.

In the brief 9 months of this Committee's existence under the chairmanship of Vice President Johnson, it has received almost three-fourths as many complaints as the two committees which previously handled the same problems during the entire period from 1953 to 1960. Now people are beginning to believe that their request for help will produce results. But the significance of these figures lies less in the number of complaints that have been filed, than it does in the kind of corrective action they are producing. Thus far the Committee has achieved corrective action in over 29 percent of the cases involving Government employment policy which have been closed.

Consequently, a Federal employee or applicant for such employment has twice as good a chance today to have his problem corrected as has been true over the past several years. There have also been substantial gains in corrective action resulting in new jobs, new job assignments, promotions, or new training opportunities in cases filed with the Committee concerning Government contractors. Statistics are useful for certain purposes, but grossly limited in utility in telling the whole story. There are many instances in the experience of the current Committee which can be cited in more human and specific terms. Negroes and other minority workers are today employed in new opportunities as a result of the concerted action by the Federal Government contracting agencies and the President's Committee.

It is with understandable pride that I report that those new employment opportunities in virtually every State of the Union have resulted from the activities of the Federal Government.

While there are compliance sanctions available with respect to Government contractors, we are most encouraged by the leadership taken by 21 of the Nation's largest corporations in expanding equal employment opportunities by adopting the Committee's "Plans for Progress."

Within the Federal Government itself we are establishing a record of appointments and assignments of minority workers. The Committee has established two major reporting systems. A census of all Federal employees has been completed and a system for periodic review and comparison is now underway in the Federal establishments which consist of over 2 million employees. There is also a comprehensive reporting system for the review of the manpower practices of all Government prime and first tier subcontractors.

As we are all aware, discrimination in employment is not an isolated evil infecting our Nation's record, but it is of a piece of the fabric that is evident in many other areas of our social and economic life. This administration's record of action extends to these other areas also. The Department of Justice has made important progress in the protection of civil rights by a policy of seeking voluntary effective guarantees and action from local officials and civic leaders without court action, quietly and without publicity. But, when effective steps have not been taken or evasions of court orders have been attempted, formal legal action has been undertaken in broad areas to protect the rights of minorities. This action has embraced the right to register and vote and protection from intimidation and reprisal, including economic reprisals through evictions and otherwise. Within the Justice Department, employment of Negro attorneys has increased fivefold since last January-attorneys who are men of outstanding qualifications and proven ability.

There has been substantial progress toward eliminating discrimination in all three major modes of public interstate transportation, and continued vigilance and action in this area is being maintained. Regulations have been issued by the ICC, upon a petition of the Department of Justice, requiring desegregation of bus terminals, and court action instituted to obtain compliance from recalcitrant communities.

The Department has adopted a policy of preventive action to protect the integrity of the courts and to assist local officials and community leaders in complying with their responsibilities in desegregation of schools. This administration has also concerned itself with difficult situations of law enforcement arising out of demonstrations and mass arrests.

In closing, may I emphasize that fulfillment of the promise of equal rights and equal opportunities is among the noblest purposes of Government. This administration is pledged to this cause and will work with all levels of government and all branches of government in pursuing it.

As President Kennedy stated in his report to Congress on January 10: "This administration has shown as never before how much could be done through the full exercise of executive powers-through the enforcement of laws already passed by the Congress-through persuasion, negotiation, and litigation, to secure the constitutional rights of all." But as the President went on to point out, there is still much to be done, "by the executive, by the courts, and by the Congress."

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Mr. Secretary, we want to thank you and your colleagues for your very fine statement and particularly we welcome your help as you have very graciously offered it to the committee in preparing this legislation. We recognize that you have not had time to look at the specifics in view of the fact that we only finally made up our own minds yesterday.

The chairman of the full committee, Chairman Powell, has asked me to tell you that the bill will come before the full committee tomorrow and then probably beginning next Tuesday, line by line consideration of the bill will begin. He has asked that, if possible, that you have someone from the Department sit in and advise with us in the consideration of the legislation which will then be considered. We are particularly anxious that some of the rather difficult phases of the legislation in the enforcement area and particularly in the proposal which is now in the legislation, which would bring within the jurisdiction of the legislation the public employment agencies which are known as State employment agencies but, of course, operate with Federal funds. We would also call to your attention the fact that for the first time in such legislation as this there is taken up the problem of discrimination in both age and sex. We recognize that we are pioneering in a new field. We do not apologize for that because we think that the testimony before the committee is ample particularly in the matter of discrimination on age but we would, knowing that your Department has statistics and figures in this re

spect, particularly appreciate it if whoever you assign to the committee would also be prepared to comment on this phase of the legislation at the appropriate time.

Mr. GOLDBERG. Mr. Chairman, we shall be very glad to assign personnel for this purpose.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Thank you.

Mr. Dent?

Mr. DENT. I have no questions. I just want to state that your appearance here today is the greatest help to us because it signifies the full support of the administration for our efforts. I think that is essential to the success of the legislation and, of course, will give us a great deal of support from many of those who are at this time straddling the issue. I am very happy that you could be with us this morning, Mr. Goldberg, and lend us your support.

Mr. GOLDBERG. I thank you, Congressman Dent.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Mr. Ayres?

Mr. AYRES. Mr. Secretary, your words and presentation are always so eloquent sometimes I find myself agreeing with what you say even though I might not formally, but in this case I can agree with you. I noticed, Mr. Secretary, you did not get into the housing provisions. Is the President going to sign that order?

Mr. GOLDBERG. I have not had an opportunity at this moment to read all the details of the bill.

Mr. AYRES. I am not getting into that, but in view of your statement here, and agree that the President is most sympathetic in this field, he was when he was in the Congress. We enjoyed working with him on these matters, but we have had considerable congressional mail and comment regarding the significance of the President on the housing provisions.

Mr. GOLDBERG. I never like to scoop the President so I think it only appropriate for me to say that at the moment I do not know what his final decision is in this area and I am sure he will announce it at the time he deems it appropriate.

Mr. AYRES. That is all.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Mr. Pucinski?

Mr. PUCINSKI. Mr. Secretary, I join the other members of the committee in commending you for your appearance here this morning. As always, you have made a very profound contribution to our work. There are several questions that I think I would like to ask you to see if we can put some of these problems in proper perspective. It is my judgment on the basis of the hearings that we have held in Chicago, New York, and California and again in Washington by this committee, that of the 5 million people presently unemployed in this country, despite the fact that the number of employed is constantly going up, that an analysis of that 5 million group to me indicates that about 800,000 are young people in the draft age who cannot get jobs because an employer does not want to hire a youngster whom he is not going to be able to keep for any appreciable time on a skilled job. Of the remaining 4 million plus, I am of the opinion they are probably equally divided between members of minority groups who are victims of discrimination and older citizens who are perfectly skilled in their work, have the talent, and have the ability, and cannot find employment simply because of the growing tendency in industry to discriminate against a worker only because of his age.

age is

I have had any number of people, I would say I have had hundreds of people who have come to me and say they go down to a factory and apply for a job. They go along very well until the question of asked. The moment they disclose they are past 40 or 45, that ends the interview. They are bluntly told that while they meet all the other qualifications they cannot be hired because of age.

Now do you believe that in this legislation the age factor then becomes a very important factor and that if we are going to deal with the problem of eliminating discrimination, we have to consider this increasing phenomenon in American of discriminating against people of middle age.

Mr. GOLDBERG. Congressman Pucinski, I think you have highlighted what is a very important problem, indeed. The employment and unemployment figures which we have released have always in recent years, and particularly in the last year, pointed out some of the matters that you have just referred to. Unemployment exists in higher proportion among our young people, among minority groups, among unskilled people who often are members of minority groups who have been denied opportunities for one reason or another to acquire skill, and among what to me is no longer an older worker, because I am older than he, but a worker in the area of 40, 45, and thereabouts.

I think consideration has to be given as to how best to deal with these problems as well as the problem of denial of equal opportunity because of race.

Now, when I took office in the Department of Labor, I issued an order on our own employment policies preventing discrimination because of age and sex as well as of race. I found, however, that there are laws of Congress, and this is one of the things we have to consider and you have to consider, which exist with respect to the Federal service where the protection of the civil service laws is removed at certain ages. These are the much more ripe ages about which I am willing to concede there is an age problem as you get to 65 and 70, but maybe because it is a few years removed from where I now stand. Later I may not be so sympathetic to the problem of managers in this

area.

In the field of discrimination because of sex our studies show that discrimination does exist against women. The President has recently established a Commission on the Status of Women. One of the purposes of that Commission, headed by Mrs. Roosevelt, is to bring to light this situation and to offer suggestions for the improvement of it. We also are supporting a bill which has been in the Congress, and the administration is supporting it, an equal pay bill which will be an important aspect of eliminating discrimination because of sex.

Now, I can say to you that in principle this administration is opposed to the shabby treatment the older worker is getting in American life. Nothing can be more pathetic than to have a man in the full fruit of his years and often with the highest skills denied employment opportunity because he is displaced when he is 40 or 45. Also, there is no basis, it seems to me, in our tradition and in the full principle of our Constitution for discriminating against women.

So I say this subject deserves the attention of the Congress. Mr. PUCINSKI. Mr. Secretary, I know that you have had a great deal of experience in this field. During the course of hearings on this

subject throughout the country I have asked almost consistently whether or not there is a cost factor involved in hiring older people. We propose in this legislation to prohibit discrimination against the aged, but we have heard that there is a cost factor involved, that it costs the employer more money to hire an older worker. Therefore, I introduced legislation last year before this legislation came up which would try to relieve the employer of the additional cost if there is, in fact, a cost involved, through a form of tax credit.

Now, the reason I am asking you this question is that it is one thing for us to incorporate into this law provisions barring discrimination on account of age but I think we would be somewhat short of our responsibility if we did not also provide some remedies if, in fact, there is a cost factor, and I feel there is, but I have heard people say there is and there is not. I wonder if you have an opinion on the question.

Mr. GOLDBERG. I think there are problems involved in the age area that are special problems. I think that employers have some problems in this area. I think therefore this problem requires some special and extended consideration.

I can cite some from my own experience both as Labor Secretary and my prior experience representing unions. One of the problems that has developed is the question of pension plans for an older worker who is employed. The problem is in terms of the cost to an employer of putting in his labor force people beyond a certain If a worker then, at a higher age level, becomes eligible for an employer's pension system, there is a cost factor involved.

age.

Mr. PUCINSKI. If I may interrupt, Mr. Secretary, at the time I introduced my bill I had received statistics which indicated that in the steel industry the difference between a worker age 55 and a worker age 22 is that it costs the employer $264 a year more to hire that worker at age 55. This was in the steel industry. Excuse me for interrupting you.

Mr. GOLDBERG. I don't know the exact statistics but that does not sound out of line to me in the light of the obvious actuarial problems in employing an older man.

I think there are problems involved and I think you have done a service in calling attention to those problems and they definitely have to be considered.

Mr. PUCINSKI. However, Mr. Secretary, would it be your judgment that these problems not withstanding, if we are going to deal with the question of discrimination, we should include the factor of age in this bill?

Mr. GOLDBERG. I can't say at the moment without discussion with the members of the committee and looking at the language, whether it would be appropriate at this date to deal with it or whether you want to consider other matters, for example, that you yourself have introduced. I think you have to be fair to the problems of all people involved and I will say that there are problems in the development area that employers have. But at the same time I want to say there is a lot of discrimination against people because of age that is unwarranted under any circumstances.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Mr. Secretary, I hope you will read this language very carefully because I think we have tried to allow for taking into consideration these problems which seem almost impossible to foresee.