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Second, Dr. Holman's charge that "job discrimination is widespread" in Madison and St. Clair Counties may be his opinion, to which he is entitled, but it is not shared by us. Dr. Holman did not offer a single bit of proof of discrimination but rather posed his opinionated conclusions as facts. By using a shotgun attack, Dr. Holman may have hit some fair game, but he also hurt some he should have protected.

In some instances (but not in reference to any of our members) Dr. Holman stated, apparently intended as proof of discrimination, that X company employed "no Negroes." Equating either no employment or low percentage employment of Negroes with discrimination is a non sequitur and completely unfair to many employers. Forcing employment of Negroes to be on any kind of a proportionate basis would be discriminatory against white applicants because it absolutely could not be done on merit.

The disadvantages of Negroes-lack of training and experience, union exclusions, and problems of acceptance by their white coworkers—in the employment market are being overcome rapidly, and I am sure that employers here welcome the change. Incidentally, it is unfair for "big business"-I couldn't determine whether it was "the known devil" or "the suspected witch" in Dr. Holman's antagonistic description-to be cast in the role of villain in this connection. It is ironic that on one hand corporate employers are accused of being cold and impersonal and on the other hand of being deliberately and extremely biased and intolerant, which are strictly personal traits.

In our acceptance of Negro applicants we are being discouraged by their practice of inquring about or ostensibly applying for jobs they either do not want or at least never follow up on to the extent of being hired or rejected. We can only conclude that this is done to build up cases against employers. In any event it is a nuisance and a time-wasting harassment that we do not experience with other applicants. If this is part of the program of NAACP or any other groups, they are doing a disservice to everyone and actually delaying rather than hastening the employment of their members.

Dr. Holman and others like him are wrong in treating us as adversaries. We have no fight with him or with anyone who honestly wants to work with us in solving our employment and employee relations problems.

Yours very sincerely,

FRANK C. MANSFIELD, Manager.

MATERIAL SERVICE,

Chicago, Ill., November 22, 1961.

Hon. JAMES ROOSEVELT,

Chairman, Special Subcommittee on Labor,
House of Representatives, Washington, D.C.

DEAR SIR: We have your letter of November 14, 1961, with respect to the testimony of Dr. Lucien H. Holman, State president of the Illinois Conference of NAACP, concerning discriminatory employment practices.

We want to thank you for the opportunity to make this written reply to the testimony of Dr. Holman that pertains to our company.

We have reviewed this testimony and have noted that on page 8 Dr. Holman has stated that Material Service does not hire nonwhites. We would like to respectfully submit that we believe there is a misunderstanding in this respect. On the same page 8 of the testimony, Dr. Holman has stated that the Independent Concrete Pipe Plant does hire nonwhites. The pipe plant referred to is a substantial operation of Material Service located at Lockport, Ill., which is in the Joliet area. This operation, although sometimes locally called the old Independent Pipe Plant, has no separate corporate existence, and it is possible that some confusion could exist over the name. In any event, it would appear that Dr. Holman has, on the same page of his testimony, clearly identified us unqualifiedly as employing nonwhites, and this is a correct statement of the facts. It is and has been our policy to employ without regard to race, color, or creed. We never have kept records based on the number of people employed in any socalled minority groups, but one has only to go through our operations, not only in the Joliet area but in our Chicago operations as well, and he will find substantial numbers of representatives from all races and creeds.

Again, we have appreciated the opportunity to respond to Dr. Holman's testimony and correct what we deem to be a misunderstanding.

Very truly yours,

LUCIAN A. LINCOLN, Director of Industrial Relations.

Mr. JAMES ROOSEVELT,

GENERAL STEEL INDUSTRIES, INC.,
Granite City, Ill., November 21, 1961.

Chairman, Special Subcommittee on Labor, Committee on Education and Labor, House of Representatives, Washington, D.C.

SIR: This is to acknowledge your letter of November 14 and thank you for the copy of Dr. Lucien H. Holman's statement before the Special Subcommittee on Labor in Chicago on October 22, 1961.

Yours very truly,

Hon. JAMES ROOSEVELT,

EARLE M. LAYMAN, Manager of Industrial Relations.

GRANITE CITY STEEL CO., Granite City, Ill., November 24, 1961.

Chairman, Special Subcommittee on Labor, Committee on Education and Labor, House of Representatives, Washington, D.C.

DEAR SIR: We have received your November 14, 1961, letter with respect to the Chicago hearings of the Special Subcommittee on Labor on the subject of Equal Employment Opportunity." We are pleased to note that Dr. Lucien Holman did not cite our company for any specific discriminatory practices.

For more than 15 years, our company has employed individuals on a strictly merit basis and promoted individuals on a strictly merit basis, without regard to race, color, creed, religion, national origin, age, or sex. Our only restriction is that individuals employed must be between the ages of 18 and 60. This, of course, is made necessary by the fact that we must comply with the Fair Labor Standards Act and because of our retirement policies which encourage individuals to retire at age 65. Sincerely yours,

NICHOLAS P. VEEDER,

Chairman of the Board and President.

Mr. JAMES ROOSEVELT,

Chairman, Special Subcommittee on Labor,
House of Representatives, Washington, D.C.

MORRIS PAINT & VARNISH Co.,
November 22, 1961.

DEAR MR. ROOSEVELT: I recently received in the mail from you a statement by a Dr. Lucien H. Holman of Joliet, Ill., stating that our company discriminates against the hiring of Negro women.

This is completely ridiculous since we do not employ any women at all in our plant. It would seem obvious to me that an individual of your character would first analyze these reports to be sure they are correct in every aspect.

Since our plant started in 1945, and since the beginning of our plant, we have never employed any women at all in our plant.

Trust this clarifies the matter, and would appreciate your forwarding this information to Dr. Holman since he is completely incorrect in his analogy of this situation. Yours very truly,

CHARLES SOPHIE.

P.S.-I might add that we do hire and employ colored persons in our plant; however, they are male employees.

C.S.

ALLIED CHEMICAL CORP., GENERAL CHEMICAL DIVISION,

Re: Equal employment opportunity.

Hon. JAMES ROOSEVELT,

New York, N.Y., December 14, 1961.

Chairman, Special Subcommittee on Labor,
House Committee on Education and Labor,
Washington, D.C.

DEAR REPRESENTATIVE ROOSEVELT: Thank you for the opportunity you have granted us to comment on the testimony of Dr. Lucien H. Holman given before the Special Subcommittee on Labor on October 22, 1961.

Dr. Holman's allegations that Allied Chemical Corp. engaged in discriminatory employment practices have been carefully investigated since such conduct would violate a long standing policy of Allied Chemical prohibiting discrimination against any employee, or applicant for employment, because of race, creed, color, or national origin. We have concluded that Dr. Holman's testimony regarding Allied Chemical is incorrect and that our policy of nondiscrimination in employment has not been compromised at the East St. Louis and Metropolis plants. Set forth below are facts on which this conclusion is based.

EAST ST. LOUIS PLANT

Dr. Holman stated Allied Chemical (referred to at page four of his statement as "General Chemical Co.") discriminated against Negro women at the East St. Louis plant. There are approximately 140 employees at the East St. Louis plant, 4 of whom are women employed in the plant office. Additional women are not employed at the plant because the work requires skills and experience normally possessed only by men. Each of the four women employees have been employed by Allied Chemical at least 10 years and consequently there has been no need to seek replacements nor have we found it necessary to hire additional clerical help. We have been unable to discover any incidents of discriminatory treatment connected with hiring these individuals or their predecessors.

METROPOLIS PLANT

The Metropolis, Ill., plant was constructed in 1957 pursuant to a contract to supply the Atomic Energy Commission with uranium hexafluoride. Approximately 100 hourly paid employees and 90 salaried employees were required to operate the plant. The need for essential technical training and specialized experience necessitated filling a substantial number of salaried positions with intracompany transfers. Most hourly paid positions were filled, consistent with the practice of Allied Chemical, with individuals from the local area. Approximately 1,800 applications were received for 100 potential hourly paid positions. The applications were reviewed to determine which applicants appeared to possess skills and experience necessary for work in a plant where radioactive and combustible materials would be processed. Approximately 400 applicants appeared qualified and were asked to take intelligence and mechanical comprehension tests. This was the first time an applicant was interviewed by representatives of Allied Chemical. The application forms contained no reference to race, creed, color, or national origin. According to the plant manager and a review of the facts, applicants were offered jobs solely on the basis of test results and past employment performance.

Since the race or color of an applicant was neither recorded nor considered in determining job qualifications, there is no accurate method of determining the number of Negro applicants at Metropolis. The best recollection, however, of those individuals responsible for hiring is that 5 or 6 Negroes were among 400 applicants interviewed. One Negro applicant met the minimum standards for employment and accepted a job. This employee is currently on the plant payroll and has advanced to the highest chemical operator rate established for the plant.

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Although we feel Allied Chemical was unjustly accused by Dr. Holman of engaging in discriminatory employment practices, we recognize the problems confronting employees and employers in assuring that equal employment opportunities are a reality and not merely a promise for all employees and applicants for employment. Accordingly, we have attached for your information a policy statement issued by Mr. Kerby H. Fisk, chairman of the board of Allied Chemical, which clearly reiterates this company's unequivocal policy of nondiscrimination in employment. A similar statement was issued to all plant managers of General Chemical Division, which operates the two plants in question. We would appreciate having our comments incorporated in the record of the committee hearings.

Sincerely yours,

F. J. FRENCH, President. ALLIED CHEMICAL CORP.,

Mr. F. J. FRENCH,

President, General Chemical Division,
New York, N.Y.

New York, N.Y., September 8, 1961.

DEAR MR. FRENCH: At the operating committee meeting on August 11, 1961, the company's policy of prohibiting discrimination against any employee, or applicant for employment, on account of race, creed, color, or national origin was discussed and the requirement that this policy be fully observed in day-today operations throughout the Allied organization was strongly emphasized. I am sure you are aware that discrimination can arise not only in connection with employment and recruiting, but also in the matter of upgradings, demotions, transfers, layoffs, terminations, rates of pay and other benefits, selection for training, and other areas of the employer-employee relationship.

Operating as we do in many areas throughout the United States and else where, we run into many different and difficult conditions. Basically, being fair is the best assurance we can have that we are not discriminating or creating the appearance of discriminating.

In the case of hiring, promotion, and assignments, objective qualifications for the particular job are properly a first requirement in the selection of people. No one has the right to believe that he or she has been discriminated against if not possessing the needed qualifications. Problems are more likely to arise where as between two or more individuals qualifications are relatively equal, and it is here that a sincere desire to be fair and avoid discrimination is most important.

Like conflicts of interest, discrimination can occur in so many forms that any attempt on the part of management to be more specific would serve no useful purpose. Allied's policy not to discriminate is clear and long standing. It is your responsibility to see that it is observed both in letter and spirit by you and the employees under your jurisdiction, and you are expected to take appropriate steps to discharge this responsibility.

Also discussed at the operating committee meeting were the facts that a number of State and municipal laws prohibit discrimination; and that Presidential Executive Order No. 10925 has recently been issued dealing with the subject of nondiscrimination which is applicable to certain contracts with the U.S. Government and subcontracts. I wish to stress the importance of taking affirmative action to insure that all applicable requirements of these laws, and of Executive Order No. 10925, are fully met. To this end, you should see to it that the employees under your jurisdiction are fully advised, and instructed to examine carefully current and proposed practices at all of your locations.

A copy and summary of Executive Order No. 10925 has been furnished you by Mr. Gaston and additional copies needed by you for distribution can be obtained from him. Questions arising in connection with any of these matters should be discussed with Mr. Elliott or Mr. O'Connell, as may be appropriate, except questions involving legal interpretation or aspects which should be taken up with Mr. Gaston.

As you are fully aware, any corporate policy in the abstract is meaningless. It is in its implementation that the true definition of corporate policy becomes apparent. How the particular policy is applied is the only test of the policy itself. In the matter of nondiscrimination as in the case of any other policy, the personal feelings of no employee can be permitted to abort company policy and this must be made clear to all employees.

Sincerely yours,

KERBY H. FISK.

Hon. JAMES ROOSEVELT,

Member of Congress, Washington, D.C.

ILLINOIS POWER Co.,

Decator, Ill., December 6, 1961.

SIR: In the recent Chicago hearing of the Special Subcommittee on Labor, Dr. Lucien H. Holman, State president of the Illinois Conference of NAACP, testified that our firm engaged in discriminary employment practices in Granite City, East St. Louis, and Bloomington. Thank you for sending us copies of Dr. Holman's statement.

The longstanding policy of this company has been to hire qualified applicants regardless of race, creed, or color, providing a job opening exists. This policy has been stated and reaffirmed many times during recent years to our area managers and it has been followed rigorously.

On a number of occasions it has been suggested that we lower our hiring standards or create new positions for the express purpose of hiring additional Negro applicants. We have not done this and do not intend to do so, since we believe it will be a disservice both to our company and to Negroes. Thank you again for bringing this to our attention.

Sincerely yours,

W. J. KELLEY, Vice President.

Hon. JAMES ROOSEVELT,

CERTAIN-TEED PRODUCTS CORP.,
Ardmore, Pa., December 7, 1961.

Chairman, Special Subcommittee on Labor, Congress of the United States, Washington, D.C.

DEAR SIR: A recent statement by Dr. Holman with regard to discriminatory practices in employment in Illinois has been referred by our East St. Louis, Ill., plant to our department for a reply as suggested by your letter dated November 14, 1961. In the meantime, we have received a copy of a November 24, 1961, letter to you from Mr. Frank C. Mansfield, manager of the East Side Associated Industries, East St. Louis, Ill. We wish to state our concurrence in the content of Mr. Mansfield's letter and suggest that it be recorded with Dr. Holman's statement in order to give a fair comment on the situation which allegedly exists according to Dr. Holman.

We have recently asked our East St. Louis plant to advise us with regard to the employment situation at that plant and they have been able to advise us that out of 216 salaried and hourly paid workers at that location 91 are Negroes. We do not feel compelled to make any further investigation of the employment situation at our East St. Louis plant and trust that this information will be maintained in your files.

Very truly yours,

ROBERT L. SMITH, Legal Department.

ILLINOIS BELL TELEPHONE CO.,
Springfield, Ill., January 9, 1962.

Hon. JAMES ROOSEVELT,

Chairman, Special Subcommittee on Labor,

House of Representatives,

Washington, D.C.

DEAR MR. ROOSEVELT: Your letter of November 14, 1961, regarding Chicago hearings of the Special Subcommittee on Labor on the subject of equal employment opportunity has just recently reached my office.

We are at a loss to know why Dr. Lucien H. Holman, State president of the Illinois Conference of NAACP, would testify that the Illinois Bell Telephone Co. engaged in discriminatory employment practices in Bloomington, Ill., for the following reasons:

1. Dr. Holman's testimony in hearings before the last regular session of the Illinois Legislature was commendatory in behalf of the Illinois Bell Telephone Co. in this regard.

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