Question. What was the pretext for annoying him?

Answer. He was looked upon as a man who had given a great deal of bad advice to the negroes, and kept them in confusion, and off the plantations. He was a southern man, who had been in the confederate army, and had gone over to the radical party. He had large meetings of the negroes at his house, firing around and shooting, and it had become very dissatisfactory to the people. He was a drinking man, and when drunk would make threats. I do not myself believe there was any harm in him. I had had a great deal to do with him; he and I had canvassed two counties together.

By Mr. VAN TRUMP:

Question. Canvassed for railroads?

Answer. Yes, sir; he assisted me in my elections. In fact I had the assistance of republicans in all the elections I held in each county, except Greene County.

By the CHAIRMAN :

Question. Upon the question of local subscriptions to railroads?

Answer. Yes, sir.

By Mr. VAN TRUMP:

Question. There has been some intimation in the testimony about your road being used to carry men in disguise. Has there been anything of that sort done on your road with your knowledge or consent?

Answer. I am satisfied there has been nothing of that sort done.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Is your road finished?

Answer. Fifty miles, on which I am running trains every day.

By Mr. COBURN:

Question. Where?

Answer. From Marion Junction out to Warrior River, near Eutaw.

By Mr. BECK:

Question. The attack on Black ford was because of his official misconduct ?

Answer. I understood so; they never understood whether it was by white men or by black men; they were all strangers there, I understood. They were in the street, and I believe they got down and went into the hotel.

Question. Were they disguised?

Answer. I do not think they had any disguises on their faces at all

Question. Blackford was not hurt?

Answer. No, sir.

Question. You have stated two cases; what was the third case?

Answer. That was the case in Pontotoc; I do not think anybody was hurt there, except that one of the men who were in disguise was killed.

By Mr. STEVENSON :

Question. Do you refer to the attack on Flournoy?

Answer. That case and the two cases of Boyd and Blackford are the only three cases I have heard of on the line of my road. And the cases of Boyd and Flournoy were on the portions of the road that were not being worked at the time; we were not occupying that portion of the road; but at Greensboro we were working on the road.

By Mr. BECK:

Question. Has there been any difficulty with your hands along the line of your road? Answer. Not a bit.

Question. Do you work many negroes?

Answer. I have about four hundred.

Question. They vote as they please, as far as you know?

Answer. They voted as they pleased at the last election. About three hundred had come from North Carolina, but they were not entitled to vote; had not been in Alabama long enough; they had been working a portion of the time in Mississippi, and they did not vote. But all those who were entitled to vote voted without any molestation. I said when I started out with my roads that railroads had no politics; that I wanted the assistance of everybody; that railroads were for the general good of the whole country. We have had no political discussion along the line of my road; we have had no difficulty. I hired three hundred colored men in North Carolina, and they worked for me twelve months; their time was out last May; they were paid off. About one hundred and fifty of them returned, and a portion of them, in fact I think all but about fifteen, have come back. They got one-half of their money monthly until the end of the year, when they were paid off.

Question. You say you canvassed every civil district in those counties for .your railroad?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. In the course of that canvass did there seem to be any difficulty in enforcing the laws where you have been, and protecting men in their lives, liberty, and propérty?

Answer. I have not heard of any; the laws are regularly executed.

Question. In the course of your experience have you heard of a man being molested for his political opinions upon one side or the other?

Answer. This man Blackford I suppose was molested because he was thought to be tampering with the negroes and preventing them from working.

مجھے

Question. It was believed that he had gone out of the legitimate sphere of politics, and perhaps advised violence?

Answer. Yes, sir.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Had Blackford advised violence?

Answer. It was a rumor through the town that he had been talking with the negroes. Question. Had he been advising violence?

Answer. I heard him once advise violence when we were canvassing together. He was drunk. I do not think he was responsible then. He came to me the next day and said that he was ashamed of himself; that was at Hay's Mound.

Question. What did he say?

Answer. I do not recollect exactly his words; but it was something about fighting their own way, having their own way, and if people did not let them have it, make them do it; stand up to them; it was very offensive. While I did not think much of it, southern men did who were there and heard it. I told him that we ought not to let such things as that get into the road. I was very much abused by some of the presses in Alabama for having anything to do with Blackford, and was accused of being a radical myself. The papers went on to abuse me about going over to the republican party.

Question. Was the substance of what Blackford said that they should assert their rights ?

Answer. It was in a loose, drunken way that he was talking to them; I do not think he really knew what he was saying.

By Mr. STEVENSON:

Question. You have stated the substance of what he said?

Answer. Yes, sir.

By Mr. BECK:

Question. That they ought to take their rights if they were not given to them, and he would stand by them?

Answer. Yes, sir; it was in a boasting, bragging, drunken manner, that I did not think amounted to anything. There were some who tried to make something out of it; but I tried to excuse Blackford on the ground that he was drunk. I wanted the subscriptions and tried to carry all the votes I could. I set out by saying that railroads had no politics. I do not think they ought to have or will have as long as I can help it.

By the CHAIRMAN :

Question. I have here before me a communication published in a paper called the Southern Argus, at Selma; do you know that paper?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Is it a democratic paper?

Answer. I cannot tell you really what its politics are.

Question. The communication is very short; I will read it. It is from the Southern Argus, published at Selma, Alabama, February 3, 1871:

"To the editor of the Argus:

THE LATE GREENSBORO AFFAIR.

"SIR: I see from your article in your last issue, January 27, that you accuse a body of disguised men of going to Greensboro, on Tuesday last, and releasing a man from the jail in that place who had been confined for horse stealing. We inform you, sir, that your author has told a malicious falsehood. The man who was released on that evening was not confined for horse stealing, but for killing a negro and the taking of a Yankee's horse, openly, that it might enable him to make his escape from a court (like Blackford's) of injustice; and we say to you, sir, that the party did not visit Greensboro on that evening for the purpose of releasing this man McCrary, but for the purpose of catching and giving Mr. Blackford what he lawfully deserves, and will get be

fore the 1st day of March. We do not communicate to you for the purpose of clearing ourselves of but one thing, and that is the release of a horse-thief. Sir, it is not our object to release thieves; but, on the other hand, it is our sworn duty to bring them all to justice; and we in this section of country intend and will see that all thieves shall be punished to the extent of the law; and in cases where the law cannot reach them, the party that released the man in Greensboro will give them all they deserve, and perhaps a little more.

"Yours, truly, &c.,

"K. W. C."

"P. S.-The writer is a subscriber to your paper, and would be pleased to see this and an additional article by you in your next issue. "K.

"ALABAMA, January 31, 1871."

Is the sentiment contained in that article really a sentiment which receives countenance in the community?

Answer. I do not think so. I never read that article; I heard it spoken of and very much condemned by the best men in the county.

Question. You think, then, that the sentiment there that killing a negro is a less offense than stealing a horse

Answer. I never heard of this man killing a negro.

* *

Question. This writer says: "We do not communicate to you for the purpose of clearing ourselves of but one thing, and that is the release of a horse-thief. Sir, it is not our object to release thieves The man who was released on that evening was not confined for horse-stealing, but for killing a negro." Is that sentiment sustained there at all-that it is a lighter offense to kill a negro than to steal horses? Answer. No, sir; there is no man who believes that the offense of killing a negro is less than killing a white man.

By Mr. STEVENSON:

Question. Did you know who this correspondent was who published the account of the interview with you?

Answer. I never saw him before.

Question. When you saw him did you learn who he was?

Answer. Yes, sir; he told me who he was afterward.

Question. You got his name?

Answer. I do not think I did at the time.

Question. When?

Answer. After the article was written.

Question. Did you get it from the communication?

Answer. Probably he told me his name.

I reckon he did; but it was just as I say to

you; I was in that condition that I do not recollect anything. I was suffering from a sick-headache, and had started to my house.

Question. Did he walk along with you?

Answer. I sat on the steps for three or four minutes, and then he walked along to my gate.

Question. How far?

Answer. Sixty or eighty yards.

Question. You walked along talking?

Answer. Very little, I think.

Question. May it not well be that you were in such a condition at that time that you do not remember now what you did say?

Answer. I do not pretend to say that I recollect all that was said.

Question. How many men did you surrender at the end of the war?

Answer. About 6,000; I think between six and seven thousand.

Question. Was it not about 7,000 ?

Answer. Well, it is likely it was. I do not recollect the number now.

Question. You would have been more likely to have remembered in 1868 than now? Answer. No, sir'; I do not think I would.

Question. Did you accept a parole at that time?

Answer. I did, and issued an address when I did accept the parole-I do not know whether you have had it or not-it was published in all your papers. I said to my men that they had been good soldiers and could be good citizens; that they should go home and obey the laws of the country. And so far as I know, not one soldier who served under me has been molested for any offense since the war.

Question. Were you pardoned?

Answer. I was.

Question. How?

Answer. By President Johnson.

Question. By a special pardon?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. When?

Answer. In 1868, probably, immediately after his proclamation. I was then on my plantation in Mississippi, and I felt it to be the duty of every good man to try to restore a good condition of things to the country. I went to Jackson and made my application for a pardon to Governor Sharkey, in order that others might do it. Question. Did not the general amnesty cover your case?

Answer. I think it did; I never held a political office in my life.

Question. Did you speak with this correspondent about the bad state of things in Tennessee, about Brownlow and his proceedings?

Answer. It is more than likely we did have some conversation about that.

Question. Was the condition of things pretty bad about that time?

Answer. There was great turmoil all over the country.

Question. Excitement running high?

Answer. Yes, sir; on both sides.

Question. You understood that Brownlow by his proclamation had outlawed what he called rebels?

Answer. That is the way the Southern people looked upon it.

Question. Was not there danger of collision about that time?

Answer. Yes, sir, imminent danger; and we came very near having it in many places between the troops and the citizens. I think they did have it at Jackson, and probably one man was killed.

Question. Did you say anything to Mr. Woodward about your regard for the old Government in 1861 ?

Answer. I do not recollect now what was said. I have said, and have always said, that there was no time during the war that I would not have been willing to have taken up the old flag with the Northern people and fought any other nation, and given the last drop of blood I had. I have said that, and I say it yet.

Question. Did you not tell of your love to the old Government of 1861, and your love to the Constitution?

Answer. I cannot tell.

Question. Those were your sentiments?

Answer. They were, and are yet.

Question. Did you not talk about negro suffrage?

Answer. Well, I do not know whether we did or not.

Question. You were opposed to negro suffrage then, were you not?

Answer. No, sir. My views in regard to this war are probably different from those of most men. I looked upon it as a war upon slavery when it broke out; I so considered it. I said to forty-five colored fellows on my plantation that it was a war upon slavery, and that I was going into the army; that if they would go with me, if we got whipped they would be free anyhow, and that if we succeeded and slavery was perpetuated, if they would act faithfully with me to the end of the war, I would set them free. Eighteen months before the war closed I was satisfied that we were going to be defeated, and I gave these forty-five men, or forty-four men of them, their free papers, for fear I might be killed.

Question. When was that?

Answer. In 1863. When the war closed I looked upon it as an act of Providence, and felt that we ought to submit to it quietly; and I have never done or said anything that was contrary to the laws that have been enacted.

Question. Did you not talk with Woodward about the fact that they were then voting in Tennessee upon the question of enfranchising the whites, removing all disabilities from them?

Answer. I do not think we talked upon that subject; I do not think we had time. Question. That is the reason you did not talk upon it?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Was not that on your mind at the time?

Answer. Of course; that and everything else connected with the political condition of the country was on my mind at that time.

Question. That was the great question in Tennessee, whether the whites should be enfranchised again?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. You were trying to get the negroes to vote for that; I do not mean you individually, but your people.

Answer. I think the object was to get them to vote for it.

Question. You carried it?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Did you not say to Mr. Woodward that if the negroes would vote in favor of enfranchising the white people you would not be in favor of disfranchising them? Answer. I advocated the fourteenth and fifteenth amendments before the people, and told our people that they were inevitable and should be accepted.

Question. Do you not remember saying to Mr. Woodward that if the negroes would vote to enfranchise the whites you would not be in favor of disfranchising them?

Answer. I do not remember saying it, though I might have said it.
Question. Was not that your feeling?

Answer. Of course it was.

Question. Did you talk with Mr. Woodward about General Grant?

Answer. I think something was said about General Grant, in regard to some abuse heaped upon him at that time, in reference to his taking pianos from Holly Springs. I said I did not believe it; that I had talked with parties in Holly Springs who denied it; that I did not believe General Grant, or any other officer occupying his high position, would be guilty of such conduct.

Question. Did you ever investigate that matter?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Did you say so to Mr. Woodward?

Answer. I did not investigate it thoroughly, but I asked parties who lived in Holly Springs in regard to it, and they contradicted it?

Question. You inquired into it?

Answer. Yes, sir; afterward.

Question. Before you had this conversation with Woodward?

Answer. I reckon it was before that, because I had heard the charges made and did not believe them, and could not believe them.

Question. When this letter of Woodward was published, did it not create some talk and excitement among your friends there?

Answer. Yes, sir; a great deal; not among my friends particularly, but among those of both parties.

Question. I notice that it was published in the Cincinnati Commercial of the 1st of September, 1868.

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. The excitement was running pretty high there?

Answer. Probably not so high there as in other parts of the State.

Question. You had a State question in addition?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. It created some talk, did it not, that a man in your position should make such statements, and you conferred with your friends about it?

Answer. Very little.

Question. Did they not come to you and talk about it?

Answer. No, sir; very few people talked with me about it.

Question. How many

?

Answer. I cannot tell; I do not think I have had a half a dozen men come to me and talk upon that subject exclusively.

Question. I mean this subject and others.

Answer. I was consulting about political affairs as well as other affairs.

Question. And incidentally they would mention this letter?

Answer. I do not recollect of but very few men who mentioned that letter to me.

Question. You say this letter of explanation is the only one you have made with regard to the charges made against you in newspapers or speeches, making charges against you?

Answer. No, sir; I did not say that.

Question. I understood you so.

Answer. No, sir.

Question. How many have you written in answer to newspaper articles?

Answer. I cannot tell you. I think I wrote one other letter, probably two, making some explanations in regard to Fort Pillow.

Question. You said awhile ago that you did not have twenty words talk with Mr. Woodward; did you mean to be understood in that way?

Answer. I should have said twenty minutes, I reckon; because I sat down on my doorsteps, as I said awhile ago, and sat there a little while, a part of the time vomiting; then I got up and walked to my house, which was about eighty or ninety yards from my office, and he walked with me to the gate. I said that I was too unwell to talk with him, and went up stairs and went to bed. He said he would come there again that evening, but I never saw him.

Question. When you wrote this letter of the 3d of September you were in good health?

Answer. No, sir; I have not been in good health since the war; but I was in my usual health.

Question. You were not then suffering from any headache or pain?

Answer. No, sir.

Question. Did you say that you believed the Ku-Klux was organized only in Middle Tennessee?

Answer. No, sir; I did not say that, I do not think.