A VOICE-For how long? SENATOR BANKHEAD-Fifty years, a short time in the lifetime of a nation.

While I am on my feet and have the kind permission of the Chairman, if I do not make a point of order, I will say that that bill was vetoed by the President of the United States. (Applause.) When I tell you how he happened to veto it, perhaps you will not be so fond of a little handclapping, and I am going to tell you. I say he vetoed the bill, and if I had time I would read you his report which he received from the Secretary of War. He was a great Secretary of War, a great lawyer, and he understood the Constitution as well as any man who ever occupied the White House. If I had time to read what he said with reference to another proposition exactly like this, then you would be surprised that he afterwards vetoed this bill. When I went to him about it, I said: "Mr. President, how is it you can think of vetoing this bill after writing this report on a similar proposition?" and I showed it to him. "Well," he said, "I am too near the end to have a family row! My distinguished Secretary of War insisted upon this veto, and he prepared it and I have to sign it." That is what happened with reference to the Coosa River bill which was vetoed, as you have heard it stated.

Mr. Chairman, is my time up?

CHAIRMAN FISHER-Yes.

SENATOR BANKHEAD-If I promise not to make a point of order, will you let me conclude?

CHAIRMAN FISHER-Shall we hear from the Senator fur

ther?

(Mingled cries of "Go ahead," "No, no, no," "Go ahead," "No, no.")

SENATOR BANKHEAD-Never mind; I will say nothing more. STATEMENT OF MR. HENRY L. STIMSON.

CHAIRMAN FISHER-In view of the statement which has been made with reference to the Secretary of War and which he will have no opportunity to controvert unless he does it now, we will hear from him.

MR. HENRY L. STIMSON-Senator Bankhead, may I ask you a question?

SENATOR BANKHEAD-I am very glad.

MR. HENRY L. STIMSON-The dams being built on the Coosa River are being built under the direction of the Corps of Engineers of the Army, are they not?

SENATOR BANKHEAD They are there is but one being built, and that is being built under their direction and supervision.

MR. HENRY L. STIMSON-There are plans for five or more in all, are there not?

SENATOR BANKHEAD-I do not know. We have never had permission to prepare for any other dam. You would not let them do it.

MR. HENRY L. STIMSON-Did I ever oppose the building of a dam providing the bill reserved the right to exact compensation in case, during these fifty years, it should prove that even the great initial cost which your company was ready to pay should be insufficient to meet the great value of the waterpower produced?

SENATOR BANKHEAD-I will answer that question by asking you to read the veto message that the distinguished gentleman wrote on that bill.

MR. HENRY L. STIMSON-May I ask if this did not occur in the veto message signed by President Taft?

"No provision is made in the bill whereby the Secretary of War may, in granting the permit, exact such compensation as in the course of time may prove to be necessary to equalize the account. I think this is a fatal defect in the bill and that it is just as improvident to grant this permit without such a reservation as it would be to throw away any other asset of the government. To make such a reservation is not depriving the States of anything that belongs to them. On the contrary, in the report of the Secretary of War it is recommended that all compensation for similar privileges should be applied strictly to the improvement of navigation in the respective streams.' That is in accordance with your recollection, is it not? SENATOR BANKHEAD-If you read it, yes.

MR. HENRY L. STIMSON-I want to ask the Senator whether it is not a fact in his State of Alabama that there is another river known as the Black Warrior River, in which dams are also being built, and it is not a fact that the people who desired the privilege of the use of the water-power on the Black Warrior River, which as I understand it has a much less valuable water-power than that of the Coosa River, were allowed to pay a compensation to the Government where the people of the Coosa River were not?

SENATOR BANKHEAD-Mr. Chairman, the people of the Coosa River are paying, or propose to pay, by reason of the investment they make in order to make navigable the river, more than four dollars a horsepower for every horsepower created. That is what the people of the Coosa River propose to do. On the Warrior River the Government itself is building that lock and dam, absolutely. The private company has nothing to do with it whatever. They have come forward and said,

"If you will permit us to use the surplus water, we are willing to pay a compensation for the use of your capital in constructing this dam, of so much per horsepower." That is the proposition.

MR. HENRY L. STIMSON-The point I wish to make, and I have not heard it answered yet by the Senator, is whether at any time during the negotiations the Government represented through the department of which I had the honor to be the head that they proposed to allow to the company that was building the Coosa dam full credit for all of the moneys which it expended and that all the Government asked to reserve was the right, in case during the course of the fifty years the privilege granted should prove more valuable even than was offset by these expenditures, to have that right reserved to the people of the United States?

SENATOR BANKHEAD-The gentleman is partly right and partly wrong, as usual.

CHAIRMAN FISHER-Do you wish to say in what respect, Senator Bankhead?

SENATOR BANKHEAD-The company undertaking to build the lock and dam on the Coosa River said, "We are willing to put up this construction at our own cost and give you the navigation and we will take the water-power." That is what I have already stated. "Beyond that we are not willing to go. Beyond that we are not willing to pledge ourselves to pay the Government of the United States one single solitary dollar for the use of something that does not belong to them, and that is the surplus water in the river." The Government of the United States has no more interest in it and no more control of it than I have. It belongs to the State of Alabama and to the riparian owners of that State, and you cannot take it away from them without a great big row.

MR. HENRY L. STIMSON-I am very glad to leave the proposition on the issue as it is now left by the Senator. My position is that in such case, even in the case of the Coosa River, under the circumstances which Senator Bankhead has narrated, the people of this country have a very vital interest in the water-power.

STATEMENT OF MR. C. L. WATTS, OF ALABAMA

MR. WATTS-Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen of the Congress, we will have reached in a few minutes the important work of this Congress, namely, voting upon this matter of the water-power reports. This is the first time I have enjoyed the distinction of sitting as a delegate in this great Congress but I have always regarded it as a congress that was intended to reflect the enlightened public sentiment of this country. I

regret to say that that is not the case with respect to the Alabama delegation here, of which I am a member. We have sitting here as delegates the vice-president of the Alabama Power Company, his private secretary, and the counsel for that company, a subsidiary of the Alabama Light & Traction Power Company, a foreign corporation, a Canadian corporation, that owns and has a monopoly of 1,057,000 horsepower in my native State of Alabama.

When I came here yesterday morning with my credentials as a delegate to this convention-and, by the way, I was appointed at the instance of the vice president of the Alabama Power Company, who did not know how I was going to voteI found in less than five minutes that the water-power interests of the State of Alabama predominated in and dominated over that delegation. Before he knew how I was going to vote -and I am violating no confidence when I tell you this-he told me what the program was-and, again by the way, he is a member of this remarkable Committee on Resolutions! (Applause.) He told me that the plan was a dark-laid scheme, if you please, to defeat the will of this great Congress; that the proposition was to refer all reports from Committees and all resolutions to this remarkable committee on Resolutions, and he said, "When we get it there, we will fix it!" (Laughter.) They have put a unit rule on us. Of course, I am going to have the delegation polled. But they put the unit rule on us. When the voting comes to pass, I think it is my duty, under all the circumstances and facts surrounding the situation, to let you know, to let this great Congress know, that too much significance cannot properly be attached to what I believe will be a unanimous vote of almost the entire delegation from Alabama. I just want to let you know that fact so you can be governed accordingly.

I thank you for the kind attention which you have just given me. [Prolonged cheers and applause.]

STATEMENT OF MR. JAMES R. GARFIELD,
OF OHIO

MR. GARFIELD-Mr. Chairman and members of the Convention: I desire to say but a few words in regard to some of the points that have been raised in the discussion of the question before the Congress, first in regard to the proposition made by the Senators from Colorado and by the gentleman from Washington, raising again the question of the old proposition of state rights. It is repeating what is old to so many of us here, and yet year by year it seems to be forgotten. Of all these vast tracts that are reserved for the use of all the people of the

country in these western states, out of what is known as the Public Domain, every single acre that is capable of homestead development is still open to homestead development. If it be within the confines of a national forest or forest reserve, it is still open to settlement under proper regulations. Why have these various regulations been adopted in years past? Because under the old system of unregulated Public Domain, the interests that were grabbing the water, the coal, the phosphates, the land itself and the timber, were misusing the laws of Congress and the regulations of the Government for the purpose of improperly and fraudulently acquiring those interests. That has been stopped; and how? It has been stopped by the arm of the Federal Government which these gentlemen say they are afraid of because there may be corruption 2,000 miles away from home. My friends, the last fifteen years of this national administration have shown that there is no fear of corruption that will do injury in any way to the interests of all the people of this country in the protection of the property of all the people of this country. (Applause.)

Let us see for a moment what are the conditions in some of these states. Our friends from Colorado speak about their desire to own and control the resources of Colorado. Let me tell you what some of them tried to do while I was for the time being Secretary of the Interior. These gentlemen who say that they wish to use the water of Colorado for their own uses should listen carefully. There were those who wished to divert the great head-waters of the Rio Grande River from their natural course, through the mountains over onto the eastern side of those mountains for the benefit of the people of eastern Colorado. If they have that right, what becomes of the people of New Mexico, of Texas and of our friends across the border in Mexico? No, my friends, when you consider what this proposition is, that the water shall be controlled by those who own the sources or control the sources, or who, under some regulation or law, claim that they own the water, then you immediately deprive all the people down the entire length of that watercourse of their rights to the beneficial use of that water. There is but one single power that is strong enough and great enough to justly deal with the interests of all the people of these great watersheds, and that power is the Federal Government. (Applause.)

This is no abrogation of the rights of the individual states. They tell us that these states cannot tax this property. The fact is that under this system of development, the moment any development takes place, the moment a stick of timber is cut, the moment a mine is opened, the moment a water power is developed, then the state has full power of taxation over all