came out to the State Fair they were the first to go down to the ring; under the guise of the State Fair it takes the way the objection they may have to witnessing the races; they say they are not going to the races, they are going to the fair. As an illustration of this, let me say that a year ago last fall the State Board, after our fair had held through one week and into the next, had a special invitation to go to the Toledo Tri State Fair, which was accepted, and the Board was treated very courteously, being received there by a committee, and provision made for them to go out with President Hayes and Chief Justice Waite, who had been invited there. But the Board preferred to go out in advance. We did so, and President Hayes and suite came afterwards and looked us up, and said we must go on to the stand. We went there, and stayed until the addresses by President Hayes and Chief Justice Waite were made, and were then invited to partake with them of a banquet on the ground. After the banquet, we were invited up into the amphitheatre to see the horse races. Some members of the Board did not desire to go, as they wanted to look over the fair. I went out to look through the fair awhile, and then went up into the amphitheatre After I got seated, I heard some persons conversing and I looked around and saw Mrs. Hayes there. President Hayes was not there himself, but his wife was sitting very near me. Being acquainted with her, I said, "Why, Mrs. Hayes don't you fear to attend races?"

"Oh," said she, "this is not a race; this is a fair."

Now, that takes away a great deal of the curse.

The horses enjoy the sport, generally. A great many say you abuse the brutes, but you see the horses when they come upon the track, and their actions show that they enjoy the racing.

me.

But, gentlemen, I don't want charge of the horse department again. I have done with it; I am out. As you see by the record, my time has expired. Still, they have announced my name again; and I will say this, that it has been a little flattering to be thus honored. My associations in connection with the State Board have been very pleasant, and the acquaintances that I have formed have been a source of pleasure to Last year, and the year before last, I think I spent fully a month of time in attending to the business connected with the fair. You will recollect that we had almost two weeks of the fair year before last, and there was a great deal of care and solicitation about it, and I felt as though there was a good deal of responsibility resting upon me in the matter. I certainly felt as much anxiety about it as I did over my own business, and, as Colonel Murphy suggests, especially when we had to give our own paper to raise the money, and foot up the premiums, to the extent of

some thousands of dollars. I am free to say, that I feel honored by having been elected to the position, and some older members say, "Why, Pope, you must remain in the Board," but I will say, gentlemen, that I am not anxious for re-election. At the same time, if it is desired that I should remain in, I will not decline to serve if re elected. I feel, however, that I ought not to be longer in the Board. I have served four years, and have endeavored to do so faithfully. I have endeavored to stand up for the right, and there has been, I might as well say, among some gentle. men, some little feeling, and I have understood since I came here that they are going to beat me in the Convention. Why, gentlemen, that don't hurt me a bit. I have served without compensation, and would not do what I thought not right for any consideration. But this is a digression.

I want to say a little more with regard to the question of holding the fairs aside from the horse department. Our friend Baker, from Elyria, is a plain, out-spoken man, and who did not believe at all in our paying these premiums; and I want to say, that I was very much surprised to see him vote with us last winter when we came down to the point of paying so much speed ring premiums, and, in addition to this, to raise finances to pay our debts. Perhaps Judge Jones can see some way of raising the money at our fairs to pay our expenses, without the speed ring, but heretofore the attendance without this feature was, comparatively, small. I don't know but they can do away with it this year. I said to Mr. Baker, if we could adopt some other way by which we could succeed I would like to do away with the speed ring, and make the fair wholly agricultural and mechanical. But there is one thing certain that we cannot force people to go to school; they can get all the studying they want at home. They are not going to devote the whole of the time to improvement; they must have some little diversion. They expect, of course, by going to the State Fair, to improve their knowledge by what they shall see and learn, but they also expect some diversion, and if this is to be found in the speed ring they will get it there. Judge Jones thinks the ground should be fitted up like a park. I think the people of Columbus ought to fit up the grounds with walks and shrubbery, and make the grounds as attractive as possible. Ladies like to see the stock as well as to go into the halls. Most ladies enjoy seeing the stock, and the grounds could be fitted up and arranged so that they can conve niently visit the stalls.

I think Judge Jones wrong when he says there is a large extent of waste land in the horse ring. Last fall we saw that large extent of waste ground, as he calls it, covered with teams and vehicles, and I think there

is no ground to spare, as we must have room for the horses and vehicles of those who come to the fair. That ground, I think, is very necessary for this purpose, but the main part should be fitted up nicely, and the buildings made substantial and tasty, so that it would be a beautiful place for people to visit. Now, as to the place at which the fair should be held with our Northern Ohio State Fair though that is not, perhaps, a matter we ought to discuss now, still, I think it is a point well enough to consider on this occasion-with this fair at Cleveland and the TriState Fair at Toledo and the district fair at Dayton, where will we put the State Fair, except at Columbus? When we advertised for proposals for a place to hold the last State Fair, there were no propositions except from Columbus. We, at least, had no opportunity to go any where else if we had been ever so much disposed. The citizens here subscribed over three thousand dollars to aid the Board in meeting expenses. The entire sum was not all collected, as subscriptions of this kind are not likely to be, but it rendered substantial relief to the Board, and I say Columbus is the place for the State Fair. It has a great advantage fron the circumstances which are in its favor, and from its being in a central position between this and the other points named, and I think the people of Columbus can well afford to improve and fi; up the grounds and buildings, as Judge Jones suggests, to make it an interesting place to all.

The great mass of those who attend State fairs, district fairs, or large fairs of any kind, most come within a range of perhaps fifty or sixty miles, a great majority, perhaps, from within thirty or forty miles. Of course, you will get some from all parts of the State. Many come here at such times to visit the public buildings and State institutions, etc. I am not up here to advocate the claims of Columbus in this respect, but I am in favor of fitting up the grounds in good style. Judge Jones thinks if we would go up to Akron we would have a successful fair. We have to go to a big place to get up a big crowd. But what would Akron do in the way of entertaining the people over night, who would come to the State Fair? Her accommodations would be insufficient. If Cleveland should tender us her grounds, there would be some facility for doing this. But you go to these smaller places and fit up a fair ground and there is an immense loss, and a great deal of money has to be thrown away in the enterprise, because you are not going to stay there all the time, and in making these temporary arrangements there is a great loss. But I will not say anything more upon this subject.

My information from our county fairs last fill was, that they were generally successful, and I believe there was hardly one of them but had speed classes in their premium list, and horse exhibitions to entertain

the people, without which they thought they would not have been successful.

MAJ. MILLIKIN: I would like to ask Mr. Pope one question. He remarked, I believe, that in the main he agreed with Judge Jones, I would like to know the particular point in which he concurs with Judge Jones. [Laughter ]

MR. POPE: In every thing except that I cannot leave the horses out. [Renewed laughter.]

LEO WELTZ: Mr. Reynolds is here, and perhaps he can state what their experience has been in this matter.

MR. REYNOLDS: We paid about $3,500 in premiums for trial of speed, and collected over $3,000 for entrance fees.

S. H. TODD: I would like to criticise Judge Jones's paper in three respects: The first is that of shutting out foreign competition. He claims that if we would shut out foreign competition it would shut out what are called professional breeders. That is one point in which I wish to beg to differ with the views presented in his paper. Now, if we shut out foreign exhibiters, does it shut out what are termed professional breeders? If it means anything it means this, that we have no professional breeders in Ohio. Now, then, I say, if we shut out foreign exhibiters, it merely puts in the hands of professional breeders in Ohio the money offered for premiums without this foreign competition being in the way, and I say that such a thing would be deleterious to any Board to recommend. I would rather invite foreign competition, invite the world to appear at our State Fairs, and bring their animals from any of the States-from Canada, and from England, if they choose-and compare them alongside with ours, and let the farmers of Ohio and the adjoining States come there for information, and to find out which are the best animals for them to procure, and the breeders will learn something to their benefit.

Now, with regard to professional breeders. I would like to have had the Judge define that a little more definitely. If his definition is correct, I would say to this assembly, and to all, that I am a professional breeder. I prepare my stock for exhibition, and I go out and show them, commencing at the State Fairs at Columbus and perhaps land at the Fair at St. Louis. Now, what do I do that for? He says I do it for the money. I don't do it for the money; I do it for the purpose of showing the world what I am doing as a breeder, and to advertise my stock, and bring to the notice of the world what I am trying to do with the brains I have and the money I am spending, and the improvement I am making upon my stock. Now, it is suggested to shut such exhibiters out.

There has been a great deal said by the Farmer in regard to professional breeders, and trying to shut them out. The men who are spending their time, and employing their brains and their money, you would shut out, and not allow them to bring their stock in competition. He says, do this so that the farmers of Ohio may come in with their stock in proper condition to show them and win premiums, and thus bring about a healthy condition of things as regards breeding.

Now, what do you encourage? You encourage your farmer, who has never spent perhaps a month's time, and never spent a dollar in money, in the improvement of stock, to come into this Fair and gobble the money that is offered here, simply with stock that is worthless. There is no question but that is what it would do. He comes in here with his stock, and those who are appointed as the committee, when they come around asking what he calls the hogs, for instance, that he has on exhibition, he will reply, perhaps, "That is a cross between the Chester White and the Berkshire," or, perhaps, "A cross between a Chester White and the Poland-China. That hog I bought out there," in some direction, "and I think there must be some good qualities about him; I got him from a good man, one who is a good breeder." Now, what has been done to put that animal in condition for exhibition? "Well, sir, he has been kept in a yard where there was not a single thing growing, and he has had a little pursley and dish water." And any man in the world would not dispute it, because the hog shows for itself. Now, I say this, that you should encourage the men who make this a business, who are trying to improve our stock, and don't throw a slur upon them that they are "professional breeders," who go out for the purpose of gambling and getting all the money they can, regardless of any good that shall come out of it.

Now, another point. That is, with regard to the condition in which stock should be shown upon the fair ground. That depends upon the kind of stock. If my friend, Mr. Baker, were showing cows for dairy purposes, he would put them in the condition in which they ought to be for that purpose. If breeders of Merino sheep were exhibiting them to show the amount of wool they were capable of yielding, they would put them in a fair condition to show that. If I am showing swine, I would put them in the condition in which they are wanted when we come to butcher them, that is, in such a condition as will make the most and best pork and lard that can be made. In this way you can judge of what the hog will do by looking at him. But there is no man in the universe who is competent to judge which is best unless the stock he is examining is in such a condition as the purpose for which it is desired would