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Let me again express my sincere appreciation for your indulgence and for your gracious and courteous attention this morning.

Senator CLARK. That will be done, and I will ask that the full text of Senator Humphrey's bill, together with the Senate number be printed in the record.

The bill will, of course, be submitted to this subcommittee.

Senator HUMPHREY. Í have a brief summary of the provisions of the bill.

Senator CLARK. I will ask that be printed also following Senator Humphrey's bill. I think at the beginning of these hearings we should have the text of all the bills printed for the convenience of those considering the hearings. (See p. 2–72.)

Senator BURDICK. Mr. Chairman, as usual my neighbor from Minnesota did his usual good job.

When I was in your State many years ago I became exposed to many of the principles of law at the university. I am wondering if you have any legal authority on this question of enforcing the orders of the commissions or the boards? Do you have any problems in Minnesota ?

Senator HUMPHREY. No, we have not. We have a State fair employment practice law now in Minnesota and we have, as you know, the municipal ordinances in Minneapolis and St. Paul, and I believe in one or two other cities. Those laws are enforcible in our State first by the order of the commission, and if the commission's order is not complied with then by the order of the court.

We have both cease and desist as well as criminal penalties if court orders are violated.

Senator BURDICK. Has that been up for review by the State supreme court!

Senator HUMPHREY. It has, the laws have been held constitutional within the commerce clause and within the sections of our State constitution.

Senator BURDICK. Does your bill envision a similar type of enforcement !

Senator HUMPHREY. Yes, sir. As a matter of fact, this bill is the result of many discussions with local fair employment practice commissioners, with people in the Labor Department that have been working closely in this whole employment and manpower pattern or problem area, and as a result of a good deal of discussion with lawyers that are well acquainted with labor law and civil rights legislation.

I have no doubt as to the constitutionality of my proposal and I have no doubt that the enforcement procedure that is outlined has been-well, has had many years of application in other areas.

Senator BURDICK. Thank you very much.
Senator CLARK. Senator Pell?

Senator PELL. No questions, except to thank Senator Humphrey for his presentation.

Senator CLARK. Senator Javits?
Senator Javits. Do you have any questions?
Senator CLARK. No, I haven't.

Senator Javits. I have just one question, Senator Humphrey. Of course, the sailent issue between your bill and classic bills before us is the question of whether to have an independent fair employment practices commission or to have an administrator-board procedure within the Department of Labor.

I would not be prepared to say no to your ideas. But they are different from what we have had.

Is it your fundamental intention that when you get to the question of hearing an enforcement case, there shall be what is really an autonomous, quasi-judicial body, without responsibility for mediation and conciliation.

Senator HUMPHREY. That is correct.

Senator Javits. In other words, you really want to concentrate the mediation and conciliation function and the nonjudicial enforcement function through manpower laws, apprenticeship practices, et cetera, in the Administrator

Senator HUMPHREY. That is correct.

Senator JAVITS (continuing). Who will be a functioning entity in the Department of Labor, an operating official. Whereas when you get into the stage of complaint, hearing, et cetera, you want to go to a body which has no concern with mediation and conciliation?

Senator HUMPHREY. Yes, a body that reserves for itself the responsibility and the role of reviewing the orders of the Administrator, of reviewing the complaints of the alleged aggrieved party. In other words, acting in a quasi-judicial function.

Senator JAVITs. That is the essential thrust of your legislation and why it differs from the classic FEPC bill where we contemplate that the commission itself will have the conciliation and mediation function itself.

Senator HUMPHREY. As well as the enforcement.

I just want to add this extra thought, Senator, that I really believe that the close association with the Department of Labor, in light of the services provided by the Department of Labor and the many responsibilities of that Department now, is quite essential. With the manpower training program, with your employment agents under the Department of Labor, so on; I think this could be very helpful. Again, may I say that how the agent or how the activity is established may be not the most important thing, structurally. But what is most important is that we do something. I do believe that you could establish the Administrator within the Department, but that the appeal board could be kept separate and distinct, just as you would have a Tax Court separate and distinct from the Bureau of Internal Revenue.

Senator Javits. I join with my other colleagues and thank my colleague for coming to us with this measure. He bring great prestige and I think he will help us greatly.

Senator CLARK. Thank you, Senator Humphrey.
Your bill will be given very careful consideration.
Senator HUMPHREY. I thank the chairman and the subcommittee.

Senator CLARK. The subcommittee will stand in recess until 10 tomorrow morning.

(Whereupon, at 11:50 a.m. the hearing was recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Thursday, July 25, 1963.)




Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met at 10 a.m., pursuant to adjournment in room 4232, New Senate Office Building, Hon. Jennings Randolph presiding pro tempore.

Present: Senators Clark, Randolph, Pell, Burdick, Kennedy, Jordan of Idaho, and Javits.

Committee staff members present: Stewart E. McClure, chief clerk; Edward D. Friedman, counsel to the subcommittee; Dr. Garth L. Mangum, research director; Raymond D. Hurley, associate minority counsel; and Michael Bernstein, minority counsel.

Senator RANDOLPH. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

Hearings in the Subcommittee on Employment and Manpower of the Committee on Labor and Public Welfare resume this morning with testimony to be presented by George Meany, president of the AFL-CIO. You have with you at the witness table Mr. Meany certain of your associates whom you may introduce and identify for the record. Would you do so, please?

Mr. MEANY. This is Mr. Andrew Biemiller, the head of our legislative department, Mr. Thomas Harris, our counsel, and Mr. Boris Shishkin, the head of our civil rights department.

Senator RANDOLPH. Thank you, gentlemen.

May I for a moment, go back to 1924? At that time I was a newspaper reporter on the Clarksburg, W. Va., Daily Telegram. I remember that the body of Samuel Gompers moved through West Virginia in a special car on the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad.

I remember that the train stopped in Clarksburg at the station at approximately 4 a.m. in the morning.

Mr. Meany, there were literally hundreds and hundreds of people who passed through the car to pay respects to Samuel Gompers. I covered the story so I remember the occasion.

I use this illustration this morning for a specific purpose, to express appreciation for those leaders within organized labor who have made notable contributions to the cause of our economic system, its growth and its development.

And, it is not a pleasantry when I say this morning rather than later during the hearings that I have personally and officially had the very highest esteem for your leadership within the AFL-CIO. We are very happy, Mr. Meany, to have your testimony and the opportunity to explore with you the pending legislation.



Mr. Meany. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As you state, I am here to present the views of the AFL-CIO on proposed equal employment legislation.

It is a special pleasure to appear here today in an atmosphere of activity. We in the AFL-CIO, and the AFL and CIO before it, have long advocated strong Federal legislation to insure nondiscriminatory employment practices in American industry.

At its most recent convention, in December 1961, the AFL-CIO unanimously resolved to continue its support for such legislation in these words:

We renew our support for the passage of an enforcible Federal Fair Employ. ment Practices Act to outlaw discrimination in all employment by employers engaged in an industry affecting commerce, including all employment and train. ing of apprentices and learners, and including all unions which represent employees engaged in employment affecting commerce.

The fair employment practices law we seek should include the kind of conciliation and enforcement powers that have been tested and proved effective in the 20 States that have already enacted such laws.

This is part of the resolution passed by the AFL-CIO in its convention in 1961. Let me emphasize the phrase in that resolution:

including all unions which represent employees engaged in employment affecting commerce. I want to state emphatically that we want unions covered by equal opportunity legislation.

This has always been our official position. And this position has been presented to Congress on many previous occasions, both by myself and by other representatives of our organization.

That is why I say it is a special pleasure to appear here today. On those other occasions nothing happened, no action was taken to eliminate the blight of discrimination in employment from American life. Congress talked, but did not act. The Nation talked, but did not act.

Now we must stop talking. Now we must act. The atmosphere today is different.

Americans all over the United States have been awakened to the new urgency in the field of civil rights. The President has urged upon the Congress a new and vital civil rights program. And those in both the Senate and the House who stand for human rights have been given new strength to press for positive action.

I want to particularly commend the authors of the bills which are before you today, Senators Joseph Clark, Clifford Case, and Hubert Humphrey. These men have long been recognized for their stanch support of civil rights legislation and their efforts to secure equality of opportunity for all Americans. That we are here today is another tribute to their unceasing efforts.

Mr. Chairman, the AFI-CIO supports strong Federal action in all the areas President Kennedy outlined in his civil rights message of June 19. We believe that advances are long overdue in eliminating

discrimination and segregation in the fields of voting, education, housing, and public accommodations.

But I must point out to the Congress that in the last three of these areas, true equality of opportunity cannot come about for our deprived minorities without equality of access to employment.

The Negro needs money to keep his children in school.
The Negro needs money to purchase decent housing.
The Negro needs money to utilize public accommodations.
And the only way he can get that money is to find a good job.

So, it seems plain to us that most of the rights we seek to insure for our minority groups depend on our ability first, to create jobs, and second, to assure their availability on a nondiscriminatory basis for all.

The first of these prerequisites has been a matter of vital concern to Government, labor, and industry for a long time. For more than 5 years, unemployment in this country has exceeded 5 percent of the labor force.

In my statement to the President on the occasion of his meeting with labor leaders on June 13, I pointed out that "equal opportunity has meaning only if there is full opportunity for all.” Without full opportunity, both Negroes and whites will suffer from inadequate education, poor housing, and inability to enjoy public accommodations.

Congress and the Administration must do their utmost to reduce unemployment to a reasonable level, for without full employment jobs for all Negroes cannot be had no matter how fair our employment practices.

We have urged the Congress again and again to pass a program of tax cuts to increase consumer purchasing power, programs of public works in a variety of fields to create jobs directly, and expanded manpower retraining, vocational education, and all the other programs designed to create jobs and to qualify people to fill them.

We assume that Congress will meet its responsibilities in this area, and that America will move forward toward full employment.

That is one part of the problem. The other part is Federal action to insure equal employment opportunity.

Much has already been done in this area, by the Federal Government, by State and local governments, by employers, and by labor unions.

But much remains to be done by all these groups if we are to attain the democratic goal of equal opportunity for all in these United States.

Let me repeat to you what I have said many times before: the trade union movement stands strongly for civil rights, but we know we have civil rights problems within our own ranks.

I spoke earlier about the long and continuing support which the AFL-CIO and its predecessors have given to civil rights legislation. The resolutions which established this policy have repeatedly been adopted on the floor of our conventions.

But we know there are those who in fact dissent. We know this through their actions at the local union level, which we deplore.

For this reason, the AFL-CIO has worked diligently to eliminate segregation, not only in our unions, but in all of American life. Our

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