agency should be free to move in and do the job that needs to be done. I think, Mr. Chairman, I would like to close with just this general point. Almost everybody would declare that he is for fairness in employment and almost everybody would declare that he is against unnecessary regulation of commerce, and with these two general propositions I am sure we would get quite widespread assent. It seems to me the relevant and vital crucial query here is whether legislation does materially assist in promoting and implementing fair practices, and, on the other hand, with respect to regulation, whether there is any impropriety or unduly burdensome character or interference with proper prerogatives of manpower employment agencies. It seems to us that the answer to the first is-Does such legislation clearly exist?-is a clearly affirmative answer, a very strong one.

As Mr. Spitz indicated, there is no evidence, in all of these years, of any serious burdensome character in the application of such legislation to the regulations of employment practices. There isn't any real pioneering involved in considering a standard fair employment practice measure at the Federal level today. What more adequate testing ground could there have been than these up to 18 years of experience in now some 22 States? I do think, however, in these times it is extremely important to stress more heavily than ever before the affirmative action aspects of any measure. That the case-by-case approach is not adequate to the needs of our times. That this is one of the deficiencies of this formula, of this approach.

We do need to take affirmative, strong affirmative action under fair employment legislation rather than merely particularly to forbid the doing of overt and provable discriminatory acts.

Senator CLARK. Those comments indicate you think your own law is not strong enough?

Mr. HOWDEN. Governor Brown recommended to the last legislature that there be, for example, commission initiation of complaint power. This was not enacted in the course of several amendments which were enacted. We do feel, as I said, that we are able to proceed under our present statute with affirmative action.

I think we would like to see a clearer mandate, a clearer sanction to do that. So, we think our law is strong enough, we would like to see it clear and brought up to date in this respect.

Senator CLARK. Thank you very much, Mr. Howden.
Mr. McDonald.

STATEMENT OF JAMES MCDONALD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, STATE COMMISSION AGAINST DISCRIMINATION, ST. PAUL, MINN.

Mr. McDONALD. Senator Clark. I am James McDonald, executive director of the State Commission Against Discrimination of the State of Minnesota.

Ten years ago, when I was a student at Central State College, at Wilberforce, Ohio, as a member of the debating team I debated this subject. I remember that our discussions led us to believe that it would not be long until we would at least have "legal," equal opportunity in employment. I now find myself quite disappointed that none has been enacted thus far, yet I feel some pleasure in being able to participate in urging the passage of such an act in a real way.

No one, I am sure, is more aware of the turmoil and unrest throughout the Nation as the gentlemen of the Senate and also of the Congress. We are in an age of movement and we must react to the call and cry of those of our citizens who have been too long deprived and too often demeaned. We can no longer expect to dole out rights on a piecemeal basis, we cannot expect people to sit idly by while others vote and argue about whether they have earned the right to be free and equal.

Senator CLARK. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.)

Senator CLARK. On the record.

Mr. McDONALD. What I was going to do is then go over our law and the provision therein but since you have it there is no need to. Senator CLARK. I would like to have your comments on your Minnesota experience, on the extent to which you think your law is adequate and generally speaking to experience other law.

Mr. McDONALD. All right, fine.

Actually, I think that, well, let me be very candid and very honest about the whole thing. Our law is too cumbersome and it is quite inadequate and people just do not have confidence in this kind of procedure.

The case-by-case approach, as Mr. Howden points out, is quite ineffective and totally inadequate. We must, at the Federal level and we are going to try to strengthen our own law in Minnesota. We must come up with an affirmative tight program to show people who are aggrieved that there is an opportunity, that there is some kind of a chance to get redress when they feel they have been discriminated against. I think it is too bad that as far as our criminal laws and so forth are concerned that we place more emphasis on the criminal act of, shall we say, stealing a lollipop, than we do on the criminal act of discrimination against a man and actually taking from him the crumbs and the bread that he must eat to live by, and also taking from him the wherewithal to get adequate housing.

Senator CLARK. How long have you had a law in Minnesota?

Mr. McDONALD. We have had a law in Minnesota since 1955. We had the first local ordinance in Minneapolis in 1947.

Senator CLARK. That is when Senator Humphrey was mayor?
Mr. McDONALD. That is right, yes.

We felt at the time that the laws that had been enacted were excellent laws. I think all of us were honest in this, but we feel that those laws that were good in 1947 and in 1955 are inadequate to the needs of the people today. So, we feel that with a good Federal thrust that we will be able to be more effective at home. A more direct approach, I think incidentally in Senator Humphrey's bill, the power of the Administrator to act directly and cut through some of the redtape that so many of our people are really in awe of. I think we must understand that the people who probably would bring complaints, the relatively unlettered Negro and Indian or Puerto Rican, is quite in awe of the big governmental agencies, and they really do not think that they are adequate to take care of their personal needs and help in their personal hope, so that this strong direct approach, I think, is going to help. I know that our annual reports from all of the States

look pretty good. I mean, they make it look as if we have been doing a real good job, but I think that as we review now honestly what we have done we realize that we have been wholly inadequate. Our complaints this year number as many as we have had in the whole year of 1961. And we know that this is related to the entire national thrust for civil rights, not only is there an increase in the number of complaints but the people are more intense. They used to bring a complaint in and then let us, as the time passed and as we determined priorities, get to the case, but now they bring the case in and before they leave usually they tell us that they don't expect us to do anything anyway, and then within a couple of days we hear from them and they are quite irate that we have not taken care of their personal problem right away, so that we need this kind of thing in order to stay in the forefront of the movement.

Even in Minnesota, where there are more than 3 million citizens. and yet only about 42,000 nonwhites, including Mexican, Puerto Ricans, Indians, and Negroes, we feel that we are somewhat on a powder keg there.

Our Governor Rolvaag has sensed this; he senses we have an illequipped commission. First, it is ill equipped in funds; second, it is ill equipped in terms of its law. He senses this and he has issued an executive order and promises to issue other executive orders so that we can strengthen the sanctions of the law and the entire civil rights program.

He has also met with many of our Negro leaders throughout the State in order to try to come up with some kind of an answer.

Senator CLARK. Is your Governor does he intend to propose amendments to the legislation to strengthen the law, do you know? Mr. McDONALD. I am not sure, but I think that he will, knowing our Governor and having had several discussions with him. He knows where the weaknesses are and where they must be strengthened and he would be in full accord.

Senator CLARK. Is this a matter to which you think your legislature would be sympathetic?

Mr. McDONALD. Well, I think they would be sympathetic to an extent, and to what extent it is difficult to say. It will again, I think, depend on frankly the public pressures to an extent as the State level for a strengthening of the act.

I would hope that they would be more sympathetic in the future at least than they have been in the past; let me put it that way.

I think one of the things that has impressed our Governor in these meetings probably is-well, two things. I think in dealing with the Negro leaders many of us say that this is a new Negro, it seems that for a hundred years now every 5 years crops up a new Negro. Well, I think that our Governor understands that this is not really a new Negro at all, this is just the same old Negro who has, for the first time probably, begun to exercise his real freedom of speech and his real freedom of assembly.

He also, I am sure, is impressed by the fact that many people are talking about preferential treatment, I saw something yesterday in the newspaper where the Post Office is being accused of preferential treatment in a Dallas, Tex., situation.

Well, no amount of so-called preferential treatment will really bring the score even; no amount will bring the Negro to his proper place in our society. The discriminatory pattern in our society is so entrenched and so ingrained in all facets of our society that we are just inadequate in imaginative ways to cope with this problem, and I do think, however, that a Federal fair employment practices bill will be a good beginning and I would strongly so urge.

Senator CLARK. Thank you very much, Mr. McDonald. Mr. Litvak.

STATEMENT OF MILTON LITVAK, ACTING CHAIRMAN, MISSOURI COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS

Mr. LITVAK. Chairman Clark, my name is Milton Litvak. I am the vice chairman of the Missouri Commission on Human Rights and in the absence of the chairman who recently resigned I assume I would be the acting chairman.

I am a practicing attorney from St. Joseph, Mo., and the only member of this panel who is not a professional in the field of fair employment practice law.

Senator CLARK. Yours is a part-time employment?

Mr. LITVAK. It is without compensation.

[Laughter.]

Mr. LITVAK. Nonetheless, I am privileged to be here this morning and have the opportunity to relate to you the experiences of our State, sometimes referred to as a border State with regard to our fair employment practice law of 1961. I hope that our experience will be of some assistance to you as your committee considers the advisability and necessity of establishing a comparable law on a national level——

Senator CLARK. Actually, I think you could be of as much help to us as anybody else because you have in Missouri, as I understand it, a kind of microcosm of the United States so far as fair employment practice is concerned.

Mr. LITVAK. We feel that cross

Senator CLARK. The southern area is sort of equivalent of the Mississippi of the United States.

Mr. LITVAK. Yes, sir; we feel like we are a cross section of the United States-to the South, the southern people, we are the North, and to the North we are the South, and the East and West. Our fair employment practice law became effective on October 13, 1961. It has been in force, consequently, approximately a year and 10 months. It was assigned to the Missouri Commission on Human Rights for administration and enforcement.

This commission was created in 1957 upon the recommendation of the then Governor Blair and has obtained strong support in its activities from our present Governor, John Dalton.

Senator CLARK. Does it cover just employment or the whole range of human rights?

Mr. LITVAK. It covers just employment. It covers discrimination in employment, as to race, color, religion, or national ancestry, as against our previous educational law, which is still in effect, which excluded religion and just covered race and national ancestry.

This law was assigned to the commission which consists of 11 members, one from each congressional district, and as I say, repeat, serve without compensation or per diem and only reimbursement for expenses which are not encouraged on our budget.

We originally started out as an

Senator CLARK. Excuse me, Mr. Litvak, do you have a paid executive or administrator?

Mr. LITVAK. Yes, we have a paid executive and a secretary.

Our biennial budget was $39,000, approximately, and our current biennial budget is approximately $42,000.

Senator CLARK. That is for 2 years?

Mr. LITVAK. That is for 2 years.

But nevertheless, and notwithstanding, we feel that our State is making substantial progress in the area of human rights and in the area of fair employment practice, too.

As I suggested, prior to the fair employment practice law the commission had principal responsibility in the area of an educational agency, with the power of fact finding, attempting to conciliate, and negotiate them with this idea in mind, making recommendations to the Governor and general assembly.

Senator CLARK. But no enforcement powers.

Mr. LITVAK. We had no enforcement power at that time.
Senator CLARK. Do you have them under the 1961 act?

Mr. LITVAK. We have them under the fair employment practice law. The fact of the matter is that we have a very broad fair employment practice law; it patterns pretty much those which have been adopted in the other States.

Senator CLARK. Can you initiate complaints?

Mr. LITVAK. We have the right to initiate complaints, yes.

And, however, during the interim period from 1958 which saw the creation of the first commission after the law was enacted in 1957, we had the general power to foster mutual understanding, eliminate discrimination, and the power to make studies and research, and as a result of this power, we, in 1960, did a very complete and comprehensive study of human rights in the State of Missouri.

This study disclosed, among other things, the Negro population based on 1960 figures, and there are approximately 390,000 Negroes out of a total population of 4 million, or approximately 9 to 10 percent. Of this number approximately 90 percent are located in the St. Louis-Kansas City and southeast Missouri area.

Of course, the study also disclosed a fact that there was discrimination against Negroes in the entire State of Missouri in all areas and particularly employment. So, armed with this factual information and study, the commission made a recommendation to the Governor and general assembly that we adopt a fair employment law. This, of course, gathered support from numerous human relations organizations, and this was done in 1961.

Now, we feel that it has served a tremendous purpose, not only in the processing of complaints but has served a tremendous purpose in the matter as serving as an educational tool; in other words, it now gives the State an official policy against discrimination in employment. It now provides us an opportunity to educate employers and