Senator WEICKER. Sandy, thank you very much.

To the members of the panel, we have extraordinary individuals who have come to testify on this act. I would hope we could keep our questions down to a minimum, in order that all might have a chance to present their story, possibly each one of us only asking a question or two.

Sandy, very briefly, has a position been stated on this legislation by the Administration?

Ms. PARRINO. At this time, this legislation reflects the views of the members of the National Council on the Handicapped. However, both Presidential nominees have endorsed the bill.

Senator WEICKER. Last, in your view, is it possible to eliminate discrimination against persons with disabilities without Federal legislation?

Ms. PARRINO. I think the testimony answers that question. We have waited. We have been patient. It has not happened. I think that it is necessary to have this legislation.

Personally, I find that the fact that my two children are not protected under the Constitution to be unacceptable to me and it is unacceptable to me that 36 million disabled Americans are not protected under the Constitution. I think we need the legislation. Senator WEICKER. Congressman Owens.

Mr. OWENS. Mr. Chairman, I have no questions. I would just like to join Senator Harkin in congratulating Mrs. Parrino on the magnificent job that was done in achieving consensus on this piece of legislation, and to thank her for the many years of hard work it took to get to this point.

Senator WEICKER. Congressman Jeffords.

Mr. JEFFORDS. Just one question. You mention a labor shortage which would indicate a need and if we end discrimination we would have an available resource, a human resource. Is the training that is available under present Federal legislation sufficient to handle the ability to make that resource available?

MS. PARRINO. There is not enough training at the moment. We spend much too much in sustaining dependency and not enough in rehabilitating and training and educating.

Mr. JEFFORDS. Thank you.

Senator WEICKER. Senator Kennedy.

Senator KENNEDY. Just one question. We will probably hear a good deal of discussion about the cost of this legislation. I think it has been well documented, and you have certainly referred to the fact, that if this legislation is actually implemented, the possibilities that it gives for those that are physically handicapped and handicapped will be able to be much more productive in terms of the kinds of returns that will come back, not only in human terms but actually in financial terms, will be useful as well.

I wonder if you would just address that briefly, because this will certainly that, on the floor of the Senate, will be asked about. If you could tell us, if we achieve this legislation, whether people will be able to, you believe, be much more productive in terms of being involved in our economy? I am sorry we have to have this kind of a bottom line type of a question, but I think that is what is on people's minds these days, unfortunately.

Ms. PARRINO. The National Council is seeking to provide Congress with some kind of economic analysis of this bill. We are in the process of finding the appropriate people to do that, because it will be asked in the winter or the spring, we are sure.

There is a lot of data available in some of the areas, and there is also a lot of data that is not available. We are trying to first find what has already been done, what analysis has been done, and then see where the holes are, what has to be looked into.

I think we will be able to put some kind of a picture together by the spring. It is certainly a question that will be asked and has to be answered, but your reference to the labor shortage, we wonder just what this country is going to do as we know there is going to be a tremendous shortage of workers. It is a perfect match that we have here.

I certainly would hope we would not go looking outside the country to fill those jobs when we have a population here who wants to work in all levels of employment. So I think economically, if we look at it that way, it will be a great plus to us.

Senator KENNEDY. I appreciate that, and I hope you will keep us informed. It seems to me to be reasonably self-evident. If you eliminate these barriers and people are able to participate, that they are going to be productive members of society and they will also be contributing members to the society, in terms of their involvement in our whole economy.

I think whatever material we can have on that will be generally useful. Thank you very much.

Senator WEICKER. Congressman Coelho.

Mr. COELHO. Thank you, Senator.

Sandy, outstanding statement. Very, very nicely done. All of us appreciate your work and your effort and your presentation today. Only one comment and one question. The comment is, do not have any more patience.

Ms. PARRINO. I think it has run out, do you not?

Mr. COELHO. It is time, I think, to stand up. I think Gallaudet proved that and sort of lit a spark not only with the hearing disabled but with the disability community all over the country. We do not want to be patient anymore. So I hope that you do not believe that anymore. Let us move on.

The question I have is that your statement that it is up to us now to adopt it is correct, but you understand politics. You know that that is not the way it is done. What is really important is the grassroots.

You and I talk about 36 million or 43 million-and we move between those numbers, it is somewhere in there-Americans with disabilities. If 36 million Americans would contact their legislative leaders, and urge upon them the need for this legislation, it would be done. That is a tremendous political force.

I am, as I said, one of those in the disabled community. I do not think we have done enough of educating my colleagues, as to what we want and what we do not want. That is why I say patience is over with.

I would just ask the question what are you doing, in the grassroots, to get all the groups to lobby on the ADA bill? We have 130

sponsors in the House. I do not know how many in the Senate. But that is not enough.

Ms. PARRINO. To try and answer your question, of course the members of the National Council on the Handicapped are not allowed to lobby, and of course we do not.

Mr. COELHO. We understand that. Not that we have got that out of the way.

Ms. PARRINO. Now that that is out of the way. [Laughter.]

However, we certainly believe in education. The Council is preparing some information on the bill, some questions and answers and an explanation, sort of in plain English, what the bill means. We hope to go, the staff and the members, to all 50 States and to just educate people at a State level, and then encourage them to educate people down to the grassroots level.

We are only 15 members and our staff, we only have 8, so it is a very large job. But we are going to attempt to do it. We will not go out and tell people what they should do regarding their Congressmen, but we will educate them about the bill, tell them what it means, and why it has been written and why it has been introduced.

Mr. COELHO. Thank you.

Senator WEICKER. Congressman Martinez.

Mr. MARTINEZ. Thank you, Senator Weicker.

I have a question along the same line that the Senate asked. Maybe it is a little bit different, or maybe the response to his was not exactly what I was looking for. I am interested in what_the present administration's reaction was to the Council's report, first. Second, we have, in the Federal sector, a law that is supposed to protect the physically challenged. I am wondering if the Council, in its examination of everything, made a determination of whether that law is effective.

Anytime Congress acts, it holds out great hope to the people that look to benefit from that act of Congress. In many instances the followup or administration of that law does not occur. So those people that held up that hope are very disappointed. In this particular area, I would hate to see these people disappointed because they have worked so hard to see this come about.

So the two questions are one, what was the administration's reaction? Two, in your observations, how is the present law in the Federal sector working?

Ms. PARRINO. Well, to answer your first question, sitting behind me is our new Executive Director, Paul Hearne. Paul was sworn in to his position in August by the Vice President. At that swearing in, he indicated a need for Federal antidiscrimination legislation, to protect the rights of disabled people, and he mentioned this bill. So that, I would say, there has been a level of acceptance of this legislation from the administration.

Mr. MARTINEZ. The second question regards the law that presently exists in the Federal sector, that protects the physically disabled. Ms. PARRINO. Are you referring to 504 regulations?

Mr. MARTINEZ. Yes.

Ms. PARRINO. Is that adequate?

Mr. MARTINEZ. Is it working? As with various other things, under our supervision as the oversight subcommittee on Employ

ment Opportunities, we find that the EEOC has not really placed enough emphasis on those things that provide affirmative action in the workplace.

I am wondering if, in this instance, the same thing is occurring, that where we have the law on the books really no one is paying attention to it and the physically disadvantaged continue to be discriminated against?

Ms. PARRINO. Well, here goes my hometown. I agree with you, not enough is being done. There is not enough compliance.

The village I live in, in Westchester County, Briar Cliff Manor, which does participate in revenue sharing, could not see fit to put a ramp in until just this year. Therefore, people in that town, that village, who wanted to go into the town hall and participate in town meetings or decisions that were being made for the population, disabled were not able-certainly physically disabled people were never able to get into that town hall.

That is just one example that has certainly irritated me for many years. I think it is true in communities all over the country. There has not been enough compliance in the 504 regulations. That is a personal opinion.

In that regard, then, does there need to be something put into the law that has teeth in it to force compliance?

Ms. PARRINO. I am not an attorney, and I do not know that I can really answer that, but my uneducated guess would be yes, that there has to be something. It is not enough to just have it down on the books because the similar situation with education.

All the classrooms were supposed to have been made accessible, but many schools are not. Many schools do not have the elevators or the accessibilities, to this day, 13 years after the bill was enacted. They still are not accessible and the classrooms are not accessible.

I would say that we would need some more, I guess, teeth you call it.

Senator WEICKER. Sandy, thank you very much. There will be further questions which can be submitted for the record. Thank you for your effort. Thank you for your courage. It is good to have the endorsement of the National Council. We will take it from here.

Ms. PARRINO. Thank you.

Senator WEICKER. Our next witness is Admiral Watkins. Again, in this particular instance, I would like to commend the Admiral for his courage for bringing sanity and common sense and fact to the discussion of AIDS within this Nation.

Before you arrived on the scene with your Commission, we were dealing with ignorance, superstition, fear, and philosophy. You have turned that around. You have my eternal gratitude for turning it around, you and your entire Commission.

Again, I will use that by way of introduction at this hearing. Thank you very much.

STATEMENT OF ADM. JAMES WATKINS, CHAIRPERSON, PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE HUMAN IMMUNODEFICIENCY VIRUS EPIDEMIC, WASHINGTON, DC

Mr. WATKINS. Thank you, Senator Weicker.

It is not only a pleasure to come over again to Capitol Hill to talk to important committees, but I am particularly honored that you would ask me to come over to testify on behalf of the Americans With Disabilities Act.

As former chairman of the President's Commission on the HIV Epidemic, I spent most of my time in the last year working with those who have a disability, the HIV infection, and those who, because of their infection, join millions of other Americans with handicaps and disabling conditions.

The Commission held over 45 days of public hearings and site visits in preparation for its report to the President. As I participated in these rigorous and, to my knowledge, unparalleled set of hearings, one point became clear early on, that without strong Federal antidiscrimination laws, to protect those with HIV from discrimination in both the public and private sectors, they would continue to face the unfair discrimination that other disabled persons have always faced.

As I prepared for this testimony today, I went back to read the section of our Commission's report on discrimination. Quite frankly, I felt it impossible to improve upon the words that we labored over for some weeks, so I would like to submit that section of the report in its entirety for my formal written statement.

Now, I would also like to summarize some of its points. Of course, my focus is obviously on AIDS and the HIV infection. Nevertheless, if the HIV epidemic had never occurred and, having experienced a unique opportunity over the past year to witness behaviors of many Americans toward their own neighbors, I would support the Americans With Disabilities Act so that all of our citizens with disabling conditions be guaranteed fair treatment in the workplace, schools, and housing.

My predecessor here this morning said enough time has, in my opinion, been given to the States to legislate what is right. Too many States, for whatever reason, still perpetuate confusion. It is time for Federal action.

Throughout our investigation of the spread of HIV in the United States, the Commission was confronted with a problem of discrimination against individuals with HIV seropositivity and all states of HIV infection, including AIDS.

At virtually every commission hearing, witnesses attested to discrimination's occurrence and its serous repercussions for both the individual who experiences it and for this Nation's effort to control the epidemic. Many witnesses indicated that addressing discrimination is the first critical step in the Nation's response to the epidemic.

HIV-related discrimination is impairing this Nation's ability to limit the spread of the epidemic. Crucial to this effort are epidemiological studies to track the epidemic as well as the education, testing and counseling of those who have been exposed to the virus. Public health officials will not be able to gain the confidence and