Mr. JAVITS. And our policy is to do everything we can to keep Tito from coming back into the Cominform and the Stalinist Communists from coming back in and taking control of the situation like they did in Hungary, Rumania, China, and so forth.

Mr. PERKINS. Yes.

Mr. RICHARDS. Do you consider that the only alternative is in the Tito government itself?

Mr. PERKINS. We see no other alternative.

Mr. RICHARDS. You do not think it would swing to the right? Mr. PERKINS. We do not see any leadership that would bring it back to the right.

Mr. FULTON. If it is a straight business deal what are the strategic or vital materials that we might get from Yugoslavia in exchange for a loan? Can you outline some of those elements like copper, zinc, and manganese?

Mr. PERKINS. Copper, zinc, and lead, I think, are the principal exports we are getting from them.

Mr. FULTON. What are the materials, to follow up this line of questioning, that we might get in return for what we give them as a business deal?

Mr. PERKINS. I think the provision which is in the draft act, which says that they will make accessible to us those materials, is what we should expect.

Mr. FULTON. Give us some of the details of it; how much and where are they.

Mr. PERKINS. In 1949, which is, of course, the last full year that we have, we got 13,361 metric tons of copper, and 21,267 metric tons of lead, 246 tons of antimony, and 109 tons of quick silver. These are Department of Commerce figures.

Mr. FULTON. Is there any manganese there?

Mr. PERKINS. No. There may be small quantities, but it is not significant.

(The following table has been submitted for the record:)

Mr. RICHARDS. Mr. Smith.

Mr. SMITH. Mr. Secretary, you are not contending that this program would in any way encourage those free people, or those who want liberty and freedom in Yugoslavia, that it will in any way encourage them under this operation?

Mr. PERKINS. I do not think you can say that at all. The purpose of this is to see to it that people who are on our side are taken care of. Mr. SMITH. Do you maintain that Tito is on our side?

Mr. PERKINS. Perhaps I should say not on the other side.
Mr. SMITH. That is a distinction without a difference.

а

Mrs. BOLTON. No; not quite.

Mr. RICHARDS. Mr. Merrow.

Mr. MERROW. Mr. Secretary, I realize that you are going to discuss this matter of conditions in executive session, but I have this observation to make; it seems to me that, if the break is as irrevocable as you think, there should be no hesitancy on the part of the Tito government to agree to conditions which we might formulate, and that there should be no hesitancy on our part in laying down certain conditions that we would like to see fulfilled.

Mr. PERKINS. I think that there is a great deal of difficulty in it because of what I have said: that one of the basic factors in the break with the Stalinists came about as the result of the fact that they laid down conditions on Yugoslavia. That is a public reason, not a private reason. It has been broadcast all through Yugoslavia, and if we come in and start making conditions it seems to me that would be a misconception of the situation.

Mr. MERROW. But the type of conditions laid down by a free country would be different, certainly, from those imposed by the Communists in Russia.

Mr. PERKINS. Yes; that is true, but they are still conditions.

Mr. MERROWS But they ought to do something in return for what they are going to get from us. That is all.

Mr. RICHARDS. Mr. Battle, would you like to ask any questions? Mr. BATTLE. Mr. Secretary, I was wondering about this aid bill that we are considering. Is it anticipated that we will use our surplus food, or is this to be a grant to purchase new food?

Mr. PERKINS. This will be a grant which will use surplus food, in so far as possible, of course.

Mr. BATTLE. Does this mean that we are being asked to appropriate money to buy surplus food from our own agricultural agencies, or how will that work?

Mr. PERKINS. Yes; we would buy food here in the United States. Mr. BATTLE. Mr. Richards, you talked yesterday about making use of this surplus food that is already available.

Mr. RICHARDS. We got into that awhile before you came in, but go ahead, Mr. Battle.

Mr. BATTLE. I will catch up on that later.

Mr. VORYS. We were told that all of our surpluses are a strategic reserve. I presume that includes eggs, and so forth. We will get a little more information on that from the agricultural people.

Mr. FULTON. What proportion of this program is to be given from surplus, whether strategic surplus or just plain surplus of the United States?

Mr. PERKINS. As I said earlier, I think you can get a more satisfactory answer on that from the agricultural witnesses than from myself. Mr. FULTON. I am not asking for details. I am simply saying what portion of it will have to be new money. Now, the State Department ought to be able to give that.

Mr. PERKINS. What do you mean by new money?

Mr. FULTON. Well, you are going to have to buy some of it if it is not taken from United States surplus. So, I am asking you what part of it is money that must actually be spent as against the part of the program obtained from surplus.

Mr. PERKINS. I think, if we may, we better get that for you and not try to do it up here.

Mr. FULTON. Can you give it to us approximately? Is it 10 or 20 percent purchases and the rest of it in surplus?!

Mr. TRUESDELL. You will see the items listed here [indicating]. You will find that we are meeting the Yugoslav request for 4,500 metric tons of dried eggs. The prices shown in the first column are the market values which we would have to pay under law and prece dent if appropriated funds are used. If they are purchased by the Yugoslavs with their own funds, they would be allowed special prices. Mr. FULTON. On what page is that?

Mr. PERKINS. It is in exhibit 1, table 1.

Mr. FULTON. Looking at table 1, ocean transportation is shown as 3.6 million dollars. Is that "Canned meat" item surplus?

Mr. TRUESDELL. That is Mexican canned meat.

Mr. FULTON. What proportion out of the 34.4 million dollars is going to be paid for with the taxpayers' money?

Mr. TRUESDELL. That would be analyzed by the Department of Agriculture and a determination made, depending on what comes out of the price-support program and that sort of thing.

Mr. FULTON. I do not mean just that. I am looking for what you must buy from sources outside of United States Government stocks. Mr. PERKINS. I think if we may we better get that for you.

Mr. RIBICOFF. I think the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Vorys, could tell you about the experience he had in that connection on the floor. I think under the present law you have to buy it.

Mr. VORYS. The answer to the question as to how much is coming out of the taxpayers would be all of it. The answer would be that it is all going to be brand-new money coming out of the taxpayers.