I think we are not trying to convert this into a juvenile delinquency program. Certainly, it is not my emphasis today to say that. Senator CLARK. I am glad to hear you say that because it seems to me early in your testimony you were assimilating this to your Pennsylvania program, which is entirely a delinquency program. If you do not feel that way about it Mr. FARROW. Forgive me, if I grind my ax a little bit. I am trying to say these are young Americans, too, who have had problems in growing up. They have often been damaged and their ordinary growth has been thwarted. Let us not freeze them out of the program. Senator CLARK. But you are still thinking of the problem child, are you not? Mr. FARROW. Yes, I am. Senator CLARK. I do not blame you. Mr. FARROW. But I am thinking of the boy who has a problem at 8, 15, or 16, and who because of that may be prevented from going into a very constructive experience, and I am saying, please, let us not preclude him. The Army had to face this same thing. The military services had to face this same thing, and they found they could absorb many of these young men who had had a delinquency experience and yet who turned out very well, as their growth goes on and they get beyond this. I say let us not shut them out because of a juvenile court experience. Mr. WOLF. Senator Clark, I anticipate perhaps when the conservation agencies appear, they, too, might have some recommendations, and it seems to me we will have two problems before us. One is: Do we have to give more attention to the youth aspect? And secondly: Will the conservationists feel that some different method of representation will be necessary for them? Mr. FARROW. We straddled this in Pennsylvania, I may say, with our delinquency camps. The department of forests and water provides the facilities and supervises the work, determines what projects the boys shall work on. The department of public welfare supervises the living of the boys in forests and waters property. They are the landlord, we are merely the tenant. Our responsibility is the boys, the discipline, the living, feeding, and recreation. Forest and water supervises all of the work. Senator CLARK. It works out pretty well. Mr. FARROW. Well, there are frictions and problems, yes; but it works out pretty well. We know nothing about trees, reclamation, and forestry conservation. They know a lot about boys. Their men are very helpful in the work supervision. These foresters are a very good influence on the boys in the work situations. Senator RANDOLPH. They were in the original CCC program. Senator RANDOLPH. And very effective. Mr. FARROW. They are today. We are very happy to turn our boys over to the men from the department of forests and waters so they can give them the skill and knowledge and training in an area of work that we are not competent to do. Senator CLARK. Are your people living with the boys! Senator RANDOLPH. Thank you, Mr. Farrow. Mr. FARROW. Thank you. Senator RANDOLPH. Thank you, Mr. Danstedt. (The letter from Ernest W. Burgess, dated May 8, 1959, follows:) THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO, Senator JENNINGS RANDOLPH, Chairman, Subcommittee, Senate Committee on Labor and Public Welfare, Senate Office Building, Washington, D.C. DEAR SENATOR JENNINGS: I very much regret that I am unable to be present at the hearing of S. 812. May I therefore express by letter my warm support of this measure and its value to the welfare of youth and of the Nation. The basis of this judgment goes back to the time of the depression and my participation in a study of the results of the study of the civilian conservation pro gram. I helped in the training of interviewers of the youth who had had experience in the program and read many of the interviews obtained from the youth. Almost all the replies of the youth were most favorable. They had all gained in health. They greatly appreciated their contact with nature. They were proud of their part in the achievements of the program. They felt that they had matured. Many voluntarily stated that the experience had checked the beginnings of a delinquent career. For nearly 50 years I have been a student of delinquency and crime. I have participated in projects for the prevention and treatment of delinquency and crime. Treatment in the usual type of institution has been a failure. Among the few successful methods which have succeeded are the CCC program and similar construction programs with small groups of youth. The program incorporated in bill 812 if enacted into law is certain to check the rising tide of juvenile delinquency. We now have enough knowledge to adopt programs that will effectively control delinquency. Continuing studies should of course be made. But our major effort should go into projects which like the proposed one in this bill apply the knowledge which we now have. Sincerely yours, ERNEST W. BURGESS, Professor Emeritus, University of Chicago. IDENTIFYING INFORMATION, ERNEST W. BURGESS At present, professor emeritus, formerly professor of sociology, and from 1946-52, chairman, Department of Sociology, University of Chicago. Life member, Chicago Crime Commission. Board member, Chicago area project, a neighborhood program for the preven tion and treatment of juvenile delinquency. Member at present, Advisory Committee on the Revision of the Criminal Code, American Law Institute. Formerly president, Chicago Academy of Criminology. Former president, American Sociological Society. Senator RANDOLPH. Mr. Randolph Wise. Mr. WISE. Good morning, Senator. Senator RANDOLPH. Mr. Wise. STATEMENT OF RANDOLPH WISE, COMMISSIONER OF WELFARE, CITY OF PHILADELPHIA, PA. Mr. WISE. Yes; my name is Randolph E. Wise. I am commissioner of the Philadelphia Department of Public Welfare. Senator CLARK. Mr. Chairman, could I interject Senator RANDOLPH. Yes, sir. Senator CLARK. A note of Auld Lang Syne into these hearings? When I first took office as mayor of Philadelphia, in 1952, I found it pretty badly broken down and quite unimaginative, the city welfare department desperately in need of rehabilitation, of a man of intelligence and vigor who would pick something up off the floor and make a municipal disgrace into something we could be proud of. We were very fortunate indeed to find Mr. Wise, very able and willing to take on the job. He came from a background of deep experience in the Federal parole and probationary system. He has been commissioner of welfare since the early days of 1952. I do not think I am gilding the lily when I say his reputation is straight across the country and today he is recognized for what he is, one of the ablest, best, and most imaginative directors of welfare in any city of the country. any I am sure it is safe to say that he will be of great help to the committee. Senator RANDOLPH. We are glad to hear you, Mr. Wise. Mr. WISE. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you very much, Senator Clark. I was going to say initially that I am very happy to be here to lend my support to this bill. I am doubly happy now for having heard that very extravagant encomium. If it please the members of the committee, I am indeed grateful for this opportunity to express my support for Senate bill 812. The provisions of this bill provide a new instrument in my opinion for dealing with the problems of youth. Only if we develop new creative and imaginative means for dealing with our youth can we meet the challenge constructively. I think Senate bill 812 envisions such a new and imaginative program. The new Census Bureau projections indicate that our national population will reach 270 millions within the next 22 to 24 years. Our urban areas will increase by 100 million people and thus double their present population. Size alone is only one variable in this population expansion. The age distribution will shift markedly. The number of aged will increase substantially. The number of middle aged, those between 25 and 45, in that period which represent the most productive years, will remain relatively constant. This means that there will be an increased burden upon the labor force now entering their thirties, for it will fall to them to bear the support of the much larger population of young and old. The most striking changes will occur among the young. In the Philadelphia metropolitan area alone, those under 24 will increase by 500,000 during the next decade. The increase of teenagers will be truly startling as the huge numbers of those born during the postwar years reach adolescence. At present there are in Philadelphia more than 140,000 males between the ages of 15 and 24. There are 81,000 of this age group in the labor force. In 1970 there will be more than 213,000 males between the ages of 15 and 24 and 111,000 in th labor force. Thus, it is easy to see that there will be tremendous pressures for increased employment within this age group. The vast majority of our youth will become steadily employed and will become the solid citizens of the future. 41258-59- -9 However, there is no doubt that some of our youth will require special attention and help. There are bound to be a number of young men who have not found themselves socially, economically, or vocationally. They are of an age group in which there is the greatest incidence of delinquency. We must make plans so that we are prepared to deal with this group. Unemployment is still high in Philadelphia despite the recovery. We had 139,000 unemployed in March of 1959. This is about 8 workers out of every 100. Unemployment is heavy among minority groups. We are told that discrimination is not so much a factor as is the fact that a majority of the minority groups fall within the unskilled and semiskilled classifications, the two groups hardest hit by unemploy ment. At present, there are 54,000 boys and girls in the city between the ages of 16 and 18, and about 8 percent of them have jobs, but in 1953, 18 percent were unemployed. Some pupils who have exhausted their capacity for education, who would ordinarily quit school at 16 and go to work, are unable to find jobs. Thus they stay in school and in some cases where frustration becomes too much, they develop into disciplinary problems. We must discover some way of finding employment for these youths, and it is my belief this bill provides such an answer. Employment, however, is not the only answer to the dilemma of some of our youths. They need employment-plus. Plus represents an opportunity to develop healthy attitudes toward themselves an appreciation of their own worth, so that they can respect the worth and the rights and the property of others. This can only be accomplished through providing an environment where they are exposed to adults whom they respect and with whom they can establish and maintain healthy, wholesome relationships. The program of the Youth Conservation Corps must not only provide healthful, outdoor training and employment, but must recognize the importance of the individual development of each enrollee. This should be given recognition in the way the camps are staffed and in the quality of supervision given the youth. Only then will the Youth Conservation Corps have an impact on the problems of our disadvantaged young men, and although the program is not intended to provide training and employment for delinquents, it can be an important factor in the prevention of delinquency and crime. Work camp experience has shown that some young people from minority groups equate success with the art of obtaining the greatest material reward for the least possible effort. This equation was greatly evident in their work habits. Their deep fear of being taken advantage of by society caused them to react violently to anything which they felt to be unfair. At the same time they were extremely responsible to just treatment and were anxious to maintain a close and friendly relationship with the staff who supervised them. The work camp can provide continued leadership sorely needed by these young people and offer them an incentive to obtain the education and training necessary to enable them to become productive members of society. The Youth Conservation Corps should not be the same as the old ·Civilian Conservation Corps, which was a product of the depression and whose major purpose it was to employ young men from relief families in order to get money back to those families. This is still an important item; nevertheless, youth problems in 1959 are much different from what they were during the thirties. Senator CLARK. Could I interrupt for a minute, Mr. Chairman? Senator RANDOLPH. Yes, sir. Mr. WISE. Yes, sir. Senator CLARK. Mr. Wise, if you were in charge of drafting regulations for enrollment in the corps, how would you set up the qualifications for membership in the corps? Mr. WISE. I think the age bracket listed is appropriate. I think there should be some needs test. I think there should be, from the local point of view, a screening device whereby selection could be initiated by some local authority and that Senator CLARK. Public or private? Mr. WISE. Pardon me, sir? Senator CLARK. Public or private? Mr. WISE. I would say public-that related to the overall obvious qualifications of good health, reasonably good mental equipment, the potential for development, under supervision and guidance, it would be related quite closely to the financial status of the family. Senator CLARK. But no disqualification for court record; is that right? Mr. WISE. I could not help but overhear the questions put to Mr. Farrow, and I have views on that, Senator Clark; if I may at this time, I would like to expound them. Senator CLARK. That is what you are down here for, Mr. Wise, to give us your views. Mr. WISE. I would feel that it would be unfortunate if this became delinquency oriented. I do not think there is any need of it whatsoever. I do not think one should overlook its tremendous preventive potential, however. Senator CLARK. What do you say to the story of Mr. Farrow and a number of the other experts in this field that the incidence of delinquency arises at an age far younger than 16, so that there is not too much preventive technique in this thing? A kid who showed signs of going bad before he is 16, and has not, is not too apt to go bad after 16. When I say go bad that is a pretty general phrase, I appreciate that. Mr. WISE. I would agree that the propensity manifests itself earlier. But I must admit I have known of a lot of delinquents and future criminals who had their first encounter with the law at the age of 16, 17, and upward. Senator CLARK. You do not think the pattern is irrevocably set at age 7? Mr. WISE. I do not think we could be that qualified in our state ment. Senator CLARK. I diverted you and I apologize for it. To get you back, you say this program should not be delinquency oriented and yet I take it that you would not exclude individuals because they have been before juvenile court. How would you answer that problem? |