SEC. 3. That such commission shall promptly organize, and, upon giving reasonable notice to the parties to the controversy, shall either at the seat of disturbance or elsewhere, as it may deem most expedient, proceed with all convenient dispatch to investigate the causes of such controversy and the remedy therefor.

SEC. 4. That the parties to the controversy shall be entitled to be present in person or by counsel during the investigation and shall be entitled to a hearing thereon, in accordance with such rules of procedure as the commission may adopt; but nothing in this section contained shall be construed as entitling such parties to be present during the consultations of the commission.

SEC. 5. That for the purposes of this act the commission, or any one commissioner, shall have power to administer oaths and affirmations, to sign subpo-nas, to require the testimony of witnesses either by attendance in person or by deposition, and to require the production of such books, papers, contracts, agreements, and documents as may be deemed essential to a just determination of the matters under investigation; and to this end the commission may invoke the aid of the courts of the United States to compel witnesses to attend and testify and to produce such books, papers, contracts, agreements, and documents; and for the purposes of this section it shall be vested with the same powers, to the same extent, and under the same conditions and penalties as are vested in the Interstate Commerce Commission by the act to regulate commerce, approved February fourth, eighteen hundred and eighty-seven, and the acts amendatory thereof and in addition thereto, and all acts which may hereafter be enacted amendatory thereof or supplemental thereto; and it shall be the duty of the said courts of the United States to render said commission the same aid, to the same extent, and under the same conditions as is provided by said acts in aid of said Interstate Commerce Commission, and witnesses examined as aforesaid shall be subject to like duties as provided in said acts, but no witness shall be required to give any testimony incriminating himself, nor shall he be given any immunity: Provided. That no testimony given by him before any commission or commissioner shall be used as evidence against him in any criminal proceedings in any court, except in a prosecution for perjury committed in giving such testimony.

SEC. 6. That for the purposes of this act the commission may, whenever it deems it expedient, employ one or more competent experts to examine accounts, books, or official reports, or to examine and report on any matter material to the investigation in which such examination and report may be deemed of substantial assistance.

SEC. 7. That having made such investigation and ascertained the facts connected with the controversy into which it was appointed to inquire, the commission shall with all convenient dispatch formulate its report thereon, setting forth the facts and causes of the same, locating, so far as may be, the responsibility therefor, and making such specific recommendations as shall in its judgment put an end to such controversy or disturbance and prevent a recurrence thereof, suggesting any legislation which the case may seem to require.

SEC. 8. That the report of such commission shall forthwith be transmitted to the President and by him communicated, with such comments or further recommendations as he may see fit to make, to the principal parties responsible for the controversy or involved therein, and shall be duly transmitted to Congress for its information and action.

SEC. 9. That the commission may from time to time make or amend such general rules or orders as may be deemed appropriate for the order and regulation of its investigations and proceedings and adopt forms of notices and rules for service thereof. SEC 10. That the President is authorized and empowered to fix a reasonable compensation, not to exceed $30 per day, for services, to be paid to the members of the commission from the Treasury at such times and in such manner as he shall direct. The commission shall have authority to employ and fix the compensation of such employees as it may find necessary to the proper performance of its duties. The commission shall be furnished by the Secretary of Labor with suitable offices and all necessary office supplies. Witnesses summoned before the commission shall be paid the same fees and mileage that are paid to witnesses in the courts of the United States. All of the expenses of the commission, including all necessary expenses for transportation incurred by the commissioners or by their employees under their orders in making any investigation under this act, shall be allowed and paid on the presentation of itemized vouchers therefor approved by the chairman of the commission and the Secretary of Labor.

SEC. 11. That no commission appointed under this act shall continue for a period of over three months from the date of the appointment thereof.

Senator NEWLANDS. Notice has been given to the railway brotherhoods, the railroads' executives, and to the general public of this

hearing, and the attention of those who appear before this committee is directed to the various measures, and their views are requested by the committee.

I wish to ask now as to who desire to appear before the committee to-day, and whom they represent. I will first ask if the brotherhoods are represented here to-day.

Mr. P. J. MCNAMARA (vice president,. Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen). Mr. Chairman, the executives of our organizations can not be here to-day. Whether they will appear or not I will advise you later. They are not able to appear to-day. If they are not able to attend they propose to give authority to some one to act for them later on.

The CHAIRMAN. I did not catch that statement.

Mr. MCNAMARA. I say, if they are not able to appear here themselves then they will give their authority to their representatives, who are here, to act for them in this hearing. I shall later advise you after we get their message.

The CHAIRMAN. You are not prepared to state now who will appear on behalf of the railway brotherhoods?

Mr. MCNAMARA. Not at this time.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there anyone representing the railway executives here?

Hon. CHARLES J. FAULKNER. Mr. Chairman, with reference to the question that is before the committee, especially the recommendations of the President, it is not the purpose of the railroads to appear with a view of discussing the principles involved in these measures. When the work proceeds further, and the language and provisions of the bill are being formulated, they may desire to make some suggestions to the committee. But so far as the principles of the bill are concerned they do not care about any hearing at this time.

The CHAIRMAN. Is the general public represented here?

Mr. EVERETT P. WHEELER. Mr. Chairman, I appear here for the Reform Club of New York, which has members in many States of the Union. It is very much interested in this legislation, as some of you have known in the past, and we appear and shall be glad to be heard in support of the recommendations of the President.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any representatives of organized or unorganized labor present other than the brotherhoods?

Mr. ANDREW FURUSETH. Mr. Chairman, I want to appear for the seamen in the matter of this legislation. I do not know exactly how far it goes at present. The indication seems to be that it takes in the whole of transportation, and under those circumstances I would beg permission to appear for the seamen, not only against it, as far as the seamen are concerned, but against the principles involved in it.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any others present who desire to be heard?

Mr. FRANK MORRISON (secretary American Federation of Labor). Mr. Chairman, I desire to say that the Federation of Labor will desire to be heard in opposition to any measure that may be passed along this line that carries with it compulsion of any character.

The CHAIRMAN. By whom will the Federation be represented at the hearing?

Mr. MORRISON. Probably President Gompers. He is out of the city at the present time.

The CHAIRMAN. Will he be here to-morrow?

Mr. MORRISON. That I will probably know to-day.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you please inform him that we are desirous of proceeding with this legislation as rapidly as possible?

Mr. MORRISON. If he is not here, some other member of the executive council will appear before your committee.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there anyone else who desires to be heard? Mr. FRANK W. WHITCHER (of Boston, Mass., representing the Massachusetts State Board of Trade, the New England Shoe & Leather Association, the National Leather & Shoe Finders Association, with headquarters in St. Louis, the first two being in Massachusetts). Mr. Chairman, I appear in favor of the recommendations made by the President.

Mr. AMOS L. HATHAWAY (representing the Boston Chamber of Commerce). Mr. Chairman, we desire to be heard with reference to the recommendations of the President providing for an amendment of the present law in order that no strike or lockout may be ordered on railroads engaged in interstate commerce until an investigation has been made into the facts and a report made upon the merits of the controversy. We shall not approve compulsory arbitration, or argue for compulsory arbitration. If there is any compulsion, as suggested by one of the previous gentlemen here, that compulsion would bear, from our point of view, simply on the question of compelling a reference until a report could be made. We should like to be heard to-morrow, at the convenience of the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. Who will appear for this organization?
Mr. HATHAWAY. I will appear personally.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any others who desire to be heard?
Mr. JAMES L. COWLES (World's Postal League). Mr. Chairman,
I would like to be heard on this general subject at some time which
suits the convenience of the committee.

Mr. ELLIOTT H. GOODWIN (secretary of the Chamber of Commerce of the United States). Mr. Chairman, the Chamber of Commerce of the United States has, through a committee on railroads, submitted a report to vote of all its constituent members upon this question. That referendum will not be completed until the end of the month. The committee supports generally the proposition made by the President of the United States. As soon as this report has been voted upon we shall ask the privilege of submitting the result of that vote to your committee. At the present time, it being merely a report of the committee and not being adopted or refused by the chambers of commerce, boards of trade, and trade organizations throughout the country, we shall not be in a position to make any presentation before this committee.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there anyone else who desires to be heard? Mr. JAMES A. EMERY (representing the National Association of Manufacturers). Mr. Chairman, I would like to appear on behalf of the National Association of Manufacturers, and also a number of national bodies of shippers and employers, a list of which will be supplied to the committee at any time the opportunity is given for a hearing. We would like to be heard on the substantial principle involved in the President's proposition. As there is no definite meas

ure which quite formulates in completeness the matter in legal form, I am not able to address myself to any specific project beyond the tentative proposition.

The CHAIRMAN. You will find here the tentative bill, what is known as the committee print.

Mr. EMERY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That covers the President's recommendations. Mr. EMERY. The attitude of those whom I represent in the matter is that the shippers and employers many thousands of them, employers of many millions of men, are interested on the one hand in the prevention of the interruption of commerce between the States by the act of a combination, and the second part, in maintaining the continued operation of their plants, upon which the employment of men is itself dependent. Those two propositions are the ones which we desire an opportunity to discuss, and the employers hope to discuss what we believe is of importance to the committee, and that is the power of Congress over such a proposition.

I expected that some of those people would be here this morning, but they have been detained for some reason.

The CHAIRMAN. Can you give the names of those whom you wish to appear?

Mr. EMERY. I shall have to let them do that personally as I am not sure about it. My preparation in this matter has been very much delayed by a very sudden and unexpected illness.

The CHAIRMAN. As I understand it, the representatives of the brotherhoods and the other labor organizations are not ready to proceed this morning, and the railroads do not wish to proceed.

Senator UNDERWOOD. I understood Mr. Wheeler to state that he was ready, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. WHEELER. Yes; I am ready, if the committee is pleased to hear me. I am at the disposal of the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. As to the matter of time, I would like to have the suggestions of the parties interested. There are three interested parties represented here, the general public, the railway brotherhoods, and the railway executives.

Mr. WHEELER. I can easily finish what I have to say in an hour. Senator POMERENE. Mr. Chairman, I understand the committee adopted a rule whereby not exceeding two days were to be given to the brotherhoods, the same length of time to the railroads, and the same length of time to the public, if they desired it. It would seem to me, in view of the fact that this is a short session, that those who care to be heard ought to confine themselves within those limits.

Senator BRANDEGEE. I do not want to be considered by my silence as having the same understanding as Senator Pomerene has just expressed, Mr. Chairman. I was not aware that the committee had adopted any rule as to time within which the hearings must be closed. Senator POMERENE. That was my recollection of it. Senator BRANDEGEE. I say that was not my recollection. Senator POMERENE. If I am mistaken I shall be glad to be corrected.

The CHAIRMAN. I remember that the matter was discussed.

Senator POMERENE. Has the clerk of the committee any note as to that? I know it was discussed, and I thought it was the conclusion we came to.

Senator CUMMINS. I move that the rule which the joint committee, under resolution 60, adopted with reference to interruptions and examinations by the committee be the rule of this committee for this hearing until otherwise ordered.

Senator UNDERWOOD. I do not think this committee ought to adopt that rule unless we go into executive session on the subject. This is a matter of legislation; the other was merely a matter of hearings. Of course if the committee adopts that rule I will agree to it, but I would not like to do that.

Senator CUMMINS. I am in favor of it, Mr. Chairman. You can either put the question on my motion or we can go into executive session and consider it.

Senator TOWNSEND. I do not know what that rule was. was the rule?

What

Senator CUMMINS. The rule was that each witness be permitted to continue his remarks without interruption on the part of any member of the committee, and that at the conclusion of his statement or evidence, whatever it may be called, then each member of the committee should be permitted to interrogate the witness at pleasure in the order prescribed by the chairman. That is simply for the purpose of getting through at some time or other.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Wheeler, how much time do you desire? Mr. WHEELER. I could easily finish what I have to say in an hour. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Emery, how much time do you desire? Mr. EMERY. An hour will be quite enough for me, but I am, unfortunately, in no physical condition to discuss it to-day.

Senator BRANDEGEE. Mr. Chairman, we shall probably have to be on the floor at 12 o'clock to-day, and I think if Mr. Wheeler goes ahead for an hour, he may, in his remarks and cross-examination, use up the other half hour. I want to inquire if we are to have rule while Mr. Wheeler's statement and examination is in progress, or are we free to ask him questions as he proceeds?

any

The CHAIRMAN. I understand that the committee is free, until a rule to the contrary is made, to question the witness. I think, however, that the much more orderly proceeding will be to hear him through.

Senator CUMMINS. I made a motion in that respect. If it is the desire of the committee to go into executive session in order to determine it, I am prefectly willing to do so, but I would like to have it determined.

Mr. WHITCHER. Mr. Chairman, if I may interrupt a moment, I desire to say that I came here hurriedly and it is quite important for me to return to Boston, if possible, to-night. I do not think it would take me over 15 or 20 minutes to say what I have to say, and if the opportunity could be afforded this morning, I would greatly appreciate it.

Mr. WHEELER. I shall be very glad to give way to my friend from Boston. I shall be here to-morrow.

The CHAIRMAN. Then we will hear Mr. Whitcher at this time. Senator UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman, before Mr. Whitcher proceeds, I would like to say that I do not think we ought to determine the question raised by Senator Cummins at this time. We are having a hearing now, and if Senator Cummins insists upon his motion,

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