hearing, and the attention of those who appear before this committee is directed to the various measures, and their views are requested by the committee.

I wish to ask now as to who desire to appear before the committee to-day, and whom they represent. I will first ask if the brotherhoods are represented here to-day.

Mr. P. J. MCNAMARA (vice president, Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen). Mr. Chairman, the executives of our organizations can not be here to-day. Whether they will appear or not I will advise you later. They are not able to appear to-day. If they are not able to attend they propose to give authority to some one to act for them later on.

The CHAIRMAN. I did not catch that statement.

Mr. MCNAMARA. I say, if they are not able to appear here themselves then they will give their authority to their representatives, who are here, to act for them in this hearing. I shall later advise you after we get their message.

The CHAIRMAN. You are not prepared to state now who will appear on behalf of the railway brotherhoods?

Mr. MCNAMARA. Not at this time.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there anyone representing the railway executives here?

Hon. CHARLES J. FAULKNER. Mr. Chairman, with reference to the question that is before the committee, especially the recommendations of the President, it is not the purpose of the railroads to appear with a view of discussing the principles involved in these measures. When the work proceeds further, and the language and provisions of the bill are being formulated, they may desire to make some suggestions to the committee. But so far as the principles of the bill are concerned they do not care about any hearing at this time.

The CHAIRMAN. Is the general public represented here?

Mr. EVERETT P. WHEELER. Mr. Chairman, I appear here for the Reform Club of New York, which has members in many States of the Union. It is very much interested in this legislation, as some of you have known in the past, and we appear and shall be glad to be heard in support of the recommendations of the President.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any representatives of organized or unorganized labor present other than the brotherhoods?

Mr. ANDREW FURUSETH. Mr. Chairman, I want to appear for the seamen in the matter of this legislation. I do not know exactly how far it goes at present. The indication seems to be that it takes in the whole of transportation, and under those circumstances I would beg permission to appear for the seamen, not only against it, as far as the seamen are concerned, but against the principles involved in it.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any others present who desire to be heard?

Mr. FRANK MORRISON (secretary American Federation of Labor). Mr. Chairman, I desire to say that the Federation of Labor will desire to be heard in opposition to any measure that may be passed along this line that carries with it compulsion of any character.

The CHAIRMAN. By whom will the Federation be represented at the hearing?

Mr. MORRISON. Probably President Gompers. He is out of the city at the present time.

The CHAIRMAN. Will he be here to-morrow?

Mr. MORRISON. That I will probably know to-day.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you please inform him that we are desirous of proceeding with this legislation as rapidly as possible?

Mr. MORRISON. If he is not here, some other member of the executive council will appear before your committee.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there anyone else who desires to be heard?

Mr. FRANK W. WHITCHER (of Boston, Mass., representing the Massachusetts State Board of Trade, the New England Shoe & Leather Association, the National Leather & Shoe Finders Association, with headquarters in St. Louis, the first two being in Massachusetts). Mr. Chairman, I appear in favor of the recommendations made by the President.

Mr. AMOS L. HATHAWAY (representing the Boston Chamber of Commerce). Mr. Chairman, we desire to be heard with reference to the recommendations of the President providing for an amendment of the present law in order that no strike or lockout may be ordered on railroads engaged in interstate commerce until an investigation has been made into the facts and a report made upon the merits of the controversy. We shall not approve compulsory arbitration, or argue for compulsory arbitration. If there is any compulsion, as suggested by one of the previous gentlemen here, that compulsion would bear, from our point of view, simply on the question of compelling a reference until a report could be made. We should like to be heard to-morrow, at the convenience of the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. Who will appear for this organization?
Mr. HATHAWAY. I will appear personally.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any others who desire to be heard?
Mr. JAMES L. COWLES (World's Postal League). Mr. Chairman,
I would like to be heard on this general subject at some time which
suits the convenience of the committee.

Mr. ELLIOTT H. GOODWIN (secretary of the Chamber of Commerce of the United States). Mr. Chairman, the Chamber of Commerce of the United States has, through a committee on railroads, submitted a report to vote of all its constituent members upon this question. That referendum will not be completed until the end of the month. The committee supports generally the proposition made by the President of the United States. As soon as this report has been voted upon we shall ask the privilege of submitting the result of that vote to your committee. At the present time, it being merely a report of the committee and not being adopted or refused by the chambers of commerce, boards of trade, and trade organizations throughout the country, we shall not be in a position to make any presentation before this committee.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there anyone else who desires to be heard? Mr. JAMES A. EMERY (representing the National Association of Manufacturers). Mr. Chairman, I would like to appear on behalf of the National Association of Manufacturers, and also a number of national bodies of shippers and employers, a list of which will be supplied to the committee at any time the opportunity is given for a hearing. We would like to be heard on the substantial principle involved in the President's proposition. As there is no definíte meas

ure which quite formulates in completeness the matter in legal form, I am not able to address myself to any specific project beyond the tentative proposition.

The CHAIRMAN. You will find here the tentative bill, what is known as the committee print.

Mr. EMERY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That covers the President's recommendations. Mr. EMERY. The attitude of those whom I represent in the matter is that the shippers and employers many thousands of them, employers of many millions of men, are interested on the one hand in the prevention of the interruption of commerce between the States by the act of a combination, and the second part, in maintaining the continued operation of their plants, upon which the employment of men is itself dependent. Those two propositions are the ones which we desire an opportunity to discuss, and the employers hope to discuss what we believe is of importance to the committee, and that is the power of Congress over such a proposition.

I expected that some of those people would be here this morning, but they have been detained for some reason.

The CHAIRMAN. Can you give the names of those whom you wish to appear?

Mr. EMERY. I shall have to let them do that personally as I am not sure about it. My preparation in this matter has been very much delayed by a very sudden and unexpected illness.

The CHAIRMAN. As I understand it, the representatives of the brotherhoods and the other labor organizations are not ready to proceed this morning, and the railroads do not wish to proceed.

Senator UNDERWOOD. I understood Mr. Wheeler to state that he was ready, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. WHEELER. Yes; I am ready, if the committee is pleased to hear me. I am at the disposal of the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. As to the matter of time, I would like to have the suggestions of the parties interested. There are three interested parties represented here, the general public, the railway brotherhoods, and the railway executives.

Mr. WHEELER. I can easily finish what I have to say in an hour. Senator POMERENE. Mr. Chairman, I understand the committee adopted a rule whereby not exceeding two days were to be given to the brotherhoods, the same length of time to the railroads, and the same length of time to the public, if they desired it. It would seem to me, in view of the fact that this is a short session, that those who care to be heard ought to confine themselves within those limits.

Senator BRANDEGEE. I do not want to be considered by my silence as having the same understanding as Senator Pomerene has just expressed, Mr. Chairman. I was not aware that the committee had adopted any rule as to time within which the hearings must be closed. Senator POMERENE. That was my recollection of it.

Senator BRANDEGEE. I say that was not my recollection. Senator POMERENE. If I am mistaken I shall be glad to be corrected.

The CHAIRMAN. I remember that the matter was discussed.

Senator POMERENE. Has the clerk of the committee any note as to that? I know it was discussed, and I thought it was the conclusion we came to.

Senator CUMMINS. I move that the rule which the joint committee, under resolution 60, adopted with reference to interruptions and examinations by the committee be the rule of this committee for this hearing until otherwise ordered.

Senator UNDERWOOD. I do not think this committee ought to adopt that rule unless we go into executive session on the subject. This is a matter of legislation; the other was merely a matter of hearings. Of course if the committee adopts that rule I will agree to it, but I would not like to do that.

Senator CUMMINS. I am in favor of it, Mr. Chairman. You can either put the question on my motion or we can go into executive session and consider it.

Senator TOWNSEND. I do not know what that rule was. What was the rule?

Senator CUMMINS. The rule was that each witness be permitted to continue his remarks without interruption on the part of any member of the committee, and that at the conclusion of his statement or evidence, whatever it may be called, then each member of the committee should be permitted to interrogate the witness at pleasure in the order prescribed by the chairman. That is simply for the purpose of getting through at some time or other.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Wheeler, how much time do you desire? Mr. WHEELER. I could easily finish what I have to say in an hour. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Emery, how much time do you desire? Mr. EMERY. An hour will be quite enough for me, but I am, unfortunately, in no physical condition to discuss it to-day.

Senator BRANDEGEE. Mr. Chairman, we shall probably have to be on the floor at 12 o'clock to-day, and I think if Mr. Wheeler goes ahead for an hour, he may, in his remarks and cross-examination, use up the other half hour. I want to inquire if we are to have any rule while Mr. Wheeler's statement and examination is in progress, or are we free to ask him questions as he proceeds?

The CHAIRMAN. I understand that the committee is free, until a rule to the contrary is made, to question the witness. I think, however, that the much more orderly proceeding will be to hear him through.

Senator CUMMINS. I made a motion in that respect. If it is the desire of the committee to go into executive session in order to determine it, I am prefectly willing to do so, but I would like to have it determined.

Mr. WHITCHER. Mr. Chairman, if I may interrupt a moment, I desire to say that I came here hurriedly and it is quite important for me to return to Boston, if possible, to-night. I do not think it would take me over 15 or 20 minutes to say what I have to say, and if the opportunity could be afforded this morning, I would greatly appreciate it.

Mr. WHEELER. I shall be very glad to give way to my friend from Boston. I shall be here to-morrow.

The CHAIRMAN. Then we will hear Mr. Whitcher at this time. Senator UNDERWOOD. Mr. Chairman, before Mr. Whitcher proceeds, I would like to say that I do not think we ought to determine the question raised by Senator Cummins at this time. We are having a hearing now, and if Senator Cummins insists upon his motion, 74873-17-2

then I suggest that we go into executive session in order to discuss it. I do not desire that it be discussed before the public.

Senator TOWNSEND (to Senator Cummins). I suggest that you withdraw your motion until this gentlemen is heard.

Senator BRANDEGEE. The question will come up again in 15 minutes after Mr. Whitcher starts.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you make a motion that we go into executive session?

Senator UNDERWOOD. I do not care to go into executive session unless Senator Cummins insists upon his motion. If so, we can pass these witnesses over until to-morrow morning and discuss the question.

Senator CUMMINS. In view of the shortness of time, I will withhold my motion until after this witness has finished.

The CHAIRMAN. I wish to state that I desire to fairly apportion the time between the various interests, and for that reason I inquired about the time that each of those who will appear before the committee desired.

STATEMENT OF MR. FRANK W. WHITCHER, REPRESENTING THE MASSACHUSETTS STATE BOARD OF TRADE AND NEW ENGLAND SHOE & LEATHER ASSOCIATION, BOSTON, MASS.

Mr. WHITCHER. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I am here, as I stated, to represent the Massachusetts State Board of Trade, which is composed of 54 constituent bodies, boards of trade and chambers of commerce over our Commonwealth, and I will pass to the clerk these papers, giving at the head the names of the constituent bodies, of which there are 53, as follows:

Massachusetts State Board of Trade (organized October 30, 1890).-Frank W. Whitcher, president; George A. Fiel, secretary; Richard L. Gay, treasurer.

Constituent bodies.-Abington Board of Trade, Arlington Board of Trade, Beverly Board of Trade, Boston Board of Fire Underwriters, Boston Chamber of Commerce, Boston Market Gardeners Association, Boston Music Trade Association, Braintree Board of Trade, Brookline Board of Trade, Boston Wholesale Grocers Association, Cambridge Board of Trade, Chicopee Board of Trade, Dedham Business Association and Board of Trade, Everett Board of Trade, Fitchburg Board of Trade and Merchants' Association, Framingham Board of Trade, Gloucester Board of Trade, Haverhill Chamber of Commerce, Lawrence Chamber of Commerce, Leominster Chamber of Commerce, Lowell Board of Trade, Malden Board of Trade, Marlborough Board of Trade, Massachusetts Mutual Fire Insurance Union, Massachusetts State Pharmaceutical Association, Massachusetts Wholesale Lumber Association, Middleboro Commercial Club, Milford Board of Trade, Natick Commercial Club, Needham Business Association and Board of Trade, New Bedford Board of Trade, New England Dry Goods Association, New England Hardware Dealers' Association, New England Shoe and Leather Association, Newton Board of Trade, Norwood Board of Trade, Paint and Oil Club of New England, Peabody Board of Trade, Pilgrim Publicity Association, Quincy Board of Trade, Real Estate Exchange and Auction Board, Rockland Commercial Club, Salem Chamber of Commerce, Society of Master House Painters and Decorators of Massachusetts, Somerville Board of Trade, Springfield Board of Trade, Stoughton Board of Trade, Team Owners' Association, Waltham Board of Trade, Weymouth Board of Trade, Whitman Board of Trade.

There is one more that has joined since that paper was printed. I also offer my credentials from the New England Shoe & Leather Association. Those from the National Shoe Finders' Association I have not with me, because there was not time to procure them after ·