selves, as well as to the great public, which are the ones also to be injured.

I thank you, gentlemen.

Senator BRANDEGEE. Did your conference give any consideration to the question or were they advised as to the legal power of Congress to make it unlawful for men to quit work in a body?

Mr. WHITCHER. No, sir; I do not think that I recollect that. I shall be glad to answer any questions I am able to.

Senator CUMMINS. Mr. Whitcher, you described very graphically, and I think we all understand it, the consequences of a general stoppage of transportation, and what you want is some legislation that will prevent it, and you favor the recommendations of the President, as I understand it?

Mr. WHITCHER. Yes, sir.

Senator CUMMINS. And you understand that recommendation is that the right to strike shall be suspended until there is an investigation by some Government tribunal of the dispute?

Mr. WHITCHER. Yes, sir.

Senator CUMMINS. And the investigation is to be followed by a recommendation or a judgment in regard to the merits of the dispute? Mr. WHITCHER. Yes, sir.

Senator CUMMINS. A strike after the recommendation is made. would be just as fatal as before, would it not?

Mr. WHITCHER. Yes, sir; I think it would be, in a way, but it seems to me that preparation might be made which would lessen to some degree the effect of the strike, but I do not think our bodies would feel at all inclined to urge any compulsory action upon labor. Labor has its rights naturally, just the same as the railroads.

Senator CUMMINS. Then it is your idea that this lapse of time that will follow the investigation will enable the railroad companies to get ready for the strike and employ other men to operate the railroads? Is that the principal benefit of the legislation from your point of view?

Mr. WHITCHER. No, sir; I should not say that. I do not think the railroads would take steps to hire other men. I think the fact that a body of men were investigating and considering the question from both sides and bringing the different representatives to them would gradually soften the feeling which might have existed in the beginning, and that means will be found whereby conciliation and a settlement can be arrived at which will be very helpful and which has been demonstrated by the workings of the Canadian dispute, in which there were 85, if I recollect rightly, cases that have arisen during the last nine years, and only 7, if my figures are correct, and I think they are, resulted in a strike. It worked out that getting the people together face to face down over a table and trying conscientiously and earnestly to find a means which would be satisfactory alike to labor and the railroads has resulted in an amicable settlement of those things, and I believe that, and the publishing of the hearings before the public-the public opinion is an enormous factor in all these things, and I do not believe the public wants labor unjustly treated. I know our organization does not for a moment; we want labor to have all they are entitled to, and I want to go on record here that our organizations want labor to have all they are entitled to, but I do not think they should be entitled to something which is unreasonable or overreaching.

Senator CUMMINS. I am not discussing that phase of it. I am assuming everybody wants labor to have all labor is entitled to, and that everybody wants the railroads to have all they are entitled to. I am inquiring as to the basis of your belief that this plan will prevent. How many more railroad strikes have we had in this country the last five years than Canada has?

Mr. WHITCHER. I am not prepared with statistics to give you that, sir.

Senator CUMMINS. We have had no railroad strike of any proportion within the last five years, have we?

Mr. WHITCHER. Not that I remember.

Senator CUMMINS. How long has it been since there was a railway strike in this country that seriously interrupted business?

Mr. WHITCHER. I am not familiar, sir, with those statistics. I regret I had to come away so hastily that I am without that information. Senator CUMMINS. You mentioned it as a fact that an opportunity for consultation and reflection and conference might be very effective in preventing a strike. How long did the men and the railroads have to consider and reflect and mediate prior to the passage of what is known as the Adamson law?

Mr. WHITCHER. I understood they did have some time, I can not tell you how many days or weeks, sir, but I do not think the public was brought into that. The public should be paramount in this thing.

Senator CUMMINS. That is not the question. I am trying to find out how the public can be served. You say it can be served, or think it can be served best by prohibiting a strike during a certain period. Is it not true that the discussion or controversy between the railway brotherhoods and the railway executives or managers was on for months prior to what seemed to be its climax last August?

Mr. WHITCHER. I could not say certainly about that because I was not in close touch with it, but it seems to me that whether it was or not there would be a great difference between the railways and the brotherhoods considering a matter themselves, or a commission on which the public had a reasonable representation to consider it in conjunction with the brotherhoods and the railway officials.

Senator CUMMINS. We will come to that in a moment. Is it not true that the public generally understood the character of the dispute between the railway brotherhoods and the railway executives?

Mr. WHITCHER. I do not think it was, sir, until very close to the strike time. There were occasional items in the papers, but I do not think the public woke up to the real situation.

Senator CUMMINS. Inasmuch as the matter was discussed in every possible way, as I remember it, and the issue very clearly stated, how would you give the public any better information with regard to such a subject than was given to the public in the newspapers in the last controvery?

Mr. WHITCHER. I do not think there could be any greater publicity than was given to it within two to three weeks, perhaps, of the threatened strike, of the culmination of the situation; but before that time it seemed to me as though a commission should have been appointed comprising the three parties interested, and the hearings started and published broadcast so that the public in general would have been interested.

Senator CUMMINS. You are aware that the Board of Mediation and Conciliation did all it could do to bring the parties to an agreement, are you not?

Mr. WHITCHER. I understood so, sir.

Senator CUMMINS. And failed either to secure an agreement amongst themselves or an agreement for arbitration. That is the fact, is it not?

Mr. WHITCHER. I think that is true.

Senator CUMMINS. What I can not understand is this, and I should be glad to have you explain it to me. Assuming now that the disaster which would follow the general arrest of transportation be even greater than you have described, and assuming that any such disaster must be prevented in some way, why is it that you do not insist upon a continuation of the prohibition of the strike after the board has investigated the dispute and has determined its merits, provided that judgment be against the railway men? Why should they be permitted to strike?

Mr. WHITCHER. That is a question, sir, which it seems to me leads up to the question of compulsory arbitration or compulsory action, and I should be averse to urging compulsion at any point. It seems to me that having a conference of the three parties interested, the public given as good a show as the railroads or the employees, the chances of arriving at satisfactory conclusions both to the railroads and to labor are excellent. To go to the point of compulsion, I can understand that it might affect the workingman as though it was acting upon his liberties, be detrimental to his liberty, and I feel that everyone should avoid taking any such steps if it is possible to do so. Senator UNDERWOOD. You say you feel that way. Are you speaking for yourself or for the mass meeting you came down here to represent?

Mr. WHITCHER. I am speaking for the mass meeting in that respect. Senator CUMMINS. But, constitutionally speaking, it is just as violative of the constitutional rights to prohibit a strike for three moths as it is to prohibit a strike for three years, is it not?

Mr. WHITCHER. I do not think so when the matter is under consideration by all parties. The desired result to be reached is to satisfy all parties and to deal fairly by all parties, but the fact that the railroads serve the public makes it necessary that some way should be found where amicable adjustments can be had and I know our organization believes in the reasonableness of labor and of the others.

Senator CUMMINS. I assume that, but I never heard in our country of the issuance of a temporary injunction that could not finally ripen into a permanent injunction. That is the point that bothers me.

Mr. WHITCHER. I think it is bothering a great many. I do not think the country is ready to come to the compulsory situation even on the railroads. I feel that labor should be given every possible chance to agree with all of the other interests, and I speak for and I know I am voicing the sentiments of our people when I say they believe in the good judgment and in the common sense of our laboring men just as well as they do in the managing men, and some way could be found by getting together in the 60 days, or whatever time is allotted, by which those differences could be adjusted satisfactorily. If they can not, why then I do not know whether we would be ready

to say, "We are ready to stand a strike," or not. That is something we have not decided. But we should hope it would not reach the strike stage because of the suffering that would ensue, and it does not seem to me that the good judgment of labor would carry it to the point where they know suffering and strife would be caused by the steps they would take.

Senator BRANDEGEE. You suggested at one point in your remarks, that you thought it would be wise to have a law making it unlawful for railroad companies to employ men that did not agree in writing to serve for a particular length of time. Did I get your idea correctly?

Mr. WHITCHER. I am speaking individually, I would say, in connection with that. It seems to me though, that is I understand in some industries they have the employees sign, agreeing to certain conditions. It seems as though there could be a contract by which the employees would enter into an agreement, realizing the seriousness of any stoppage of the wheels of transportation, that they should resign peaceable if they were dissatisfied with the conditions that surrounded them.

Senator BRANDEGEE. You said that you advocated the plan proposed by the President, then you made this other suggestion which did not seem to me along that line.

Mr. WHITCHER. Our board of trade advocates that and the New England Shoe Leather Association and our National Leather & Shoe Finders Association also.

Senator TOWNSEND. That is, advocates the President's message? Mr. WHITCHER. Yes, sir; as to the amendment that an investigation should be had before any strike should become effective, an investigation and report.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any other member of the committee who wishes to question the witness?

Mr. Whitcher, you realize, do you not, that there is nothing in the President's recommendation to prevent any individual upon a railroad from giving up his employment?

Mr. WHITCHER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That the only purpose is to prevent combined action which would result in the paralysis of transportation? Mr. WHITCHER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. During the period of investigation and for a reasonable period thereafter. You realize that, do you not? Mr. WHITCHER. Yes, sir; I do.

The CHAIRMAN. That is all.

Senator POMERENE. May I ask one further question? You spoke of the Canadian situation. Do you know to what extent the public in Canada has accepted this plan of adjustment?

Mr. WHITCHER. I have been told by those whom I know to be fully informed that the public felt it was a very excellent method, and I know it has been continued further since the war in other lines, I think in mining and in some lines of munitions manufacture, and that it has satisfied them better than in any other form which previously existed there or which they knew of. In fact, I may have positive figures here. It has been carried into mines and into light and power, municipal public utilities, and it has affected coal

mines and metal mines, street railways, shipping, commercial telegraphy, and telephones.

Senator POMERENE. What I have in mind particularly is this: I have heard the statement made that this plan was satisfactory to the railroads, but that it was unsatisfactory to the employees. Now, what I want to know is to what extent it had been accepted as a satisfactory solution of the differences between employer and employee by the public generally in Canada.

Mr. WHITCHER. It is my understanding that it is thought very favorably of by the public of Canada.

The CHAIRMAN. That is all, Mr. Whitcher.

Mr. WHITCHER. I thank you very much for giving me the opportunity this morning of appearing before the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any others present who wish to be heard, other than those who have already announced such desire?

Mr. CHAMBERS. Mr. Chairman, I have here a brief statement that I would like to make in connection with the report upon the study of the question of mediation and arbitration, which has been prepared by the Board of Arbitration. I have it in print and wish to present it to the committee. I have copies enough for each member of the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will call upon you later to present that, Mr. Chambers.

Mr. CHAMBERS. Very well.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Wheeler, are you ready to proceed?

STATEMENT OF MR. EVERETT P. WHEELER, ON BEHALF OF THE COMMITTEE ON INDUSTRIAL ARBITRATION OF THE REFORM CLUB, NEW YORK CITY.

The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed, Mr. Wheeler.

Mr. WHEELER. I appear on behalf of the industrial arbitration committee of the Reform Club. That club was organized in New York in 1888. It has members in almost every State in the Union; it has made its business to cooperate as far as we could in the various movements for administrative and legislative reform. We were active in the old tariff reform campaign, as some of you, I think the Senator from Alabama, may remember. We were active in the campaign for sounder money, and we have taken a great deal of interest in improving our municipal conditions in the great cities, and we feel there is nothing of more importance than this we are now endeavoring to assist the committee in doing.

Without going into the details of particular bills, which we have not had opportunity to examine but which we should be very glad to cooperate in working out if it is desired, I may say that we cordially approve the President's recommendations.

I had prepared a brief, which deals somewhat in detail with the conditions as they existed at the time this strike was ordered in August last, but that has been gone over a good deal here to-day. I see the members of the committee have it fresh in mind, and while I will ask permission to have this brief included in the proceedings and will hand it to the clerk, I will not read it at this time.

(The paper referred to is here printed in full, as follows:)