Mr. CARY. A thousand carbons, which is our unit, will weigh about 145 pounds packed for shipment. We allow in ordinary figuring 150 pounds. So your freight rate will cost from 60 to 65 cents. bring ing $1.50 to $1.55. No; your rate is 90 cents per hundred, which is $9 per thousand. As a hundred carbons, you see, would only weigh one-tenth of 145 or 155 pounds, it is light in proportion to the duty. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Is the cost of manufacture of these electric-light carbons any greater than that of the other carbons that are named in schedule 97 that have a 30 per cent duty?

Mr. CARY. We import other types of carbons, which were originally under that paragraph, used for other purposes than lighting. All lighting carbons have been entered for duty since the decision under paragraph 98. But carbon blocks used for connectors, or, as we term them, brushes on our dynamos and motors and electric apparatus and contacts-all other forms and shapes of carbon for any electrical purpose whatsoever were originally interpreted as falling under paragraph 97.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. Is there any more labor cost that goes into these electric-lighting carbons than the other class of carbons that are imported at 35 per cent?

Mr. CARY. There is less in electric-lighting carbons than in the other types, especially of the carbon brushes.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. Is there any reason why these electric-lighting carbons should pay a higher rate of duty than the other carbons?

Mr. CARY. Not only is there no reason, but at the time this duty was imposed the carbons that were imported from Europe, and which are still imported from Europe, were not manufactured in this country.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. Is the carbon that is made in this country as good a carbon as the imported carbon for lights?

Mr. CARY. There are two distinct types of carbon made in this country-one known as the open-arc coke-plated carbon, copperplated carbon, and the other similar to the continental carbon, ordinarily termed the high-grade carbon, which the modern type of lamps that are generally in use in our eastern cities require, and such as you have on the streets of Washington. So there are two distinct types.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. The best type here is about equal to the type that is imported?

Mr. CARY. Yes, sir.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. And the other is an inferior article?

Mr. CARY. The other, in quality, is inferior carbon, suitable for the purpose for which it is manufactured and always has been manufactured.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. Who are the principal manufacturers of these carbons for electric lighting in this country?

Mr. CARY. As far as I am aware, the manufacture of all of our lighting carbon- in this country is directly under the control of the National Carbon Company of Cleveland.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. The National Carbon Company of Cleveland?
Mr. CARY. Yes, sir.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. That controls the entire American product?
Mr. CARY. As far as I am aware; yes, sir.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. They, then, have a monopoly of the electric carbon business-that is, for electric lighting?

Mr. CARY. So far as my best knowledge extends, they have the domestic manufacture.

Mr. COCKRAN. Are they an evolution of the old Brush Company? Mr. CARY. Well, no. The Brush Company, in the days when I was in manufacture, Mr. Cockran, were makers of arc lamps and arclamp apparatus, and also made carbons, as Mr. Brush controlled the product for plating carbons in the beginning. I have no knowledge as to whether their factory descended to the present company in Cleveland or not.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. What is the cost of manufacturing these carbons per hundred in this country, if you know?

Mr. CARY. To the best of my knowledge, the high-grade carbons, similar to those that we import, would cost in the neighborhood of 80 to 90 cents per hundred to manufacture.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. Eighty or 90 cents. What do you pay for those carbons abroad?

Mr. CARY. About 60 to 80 cents per hundred pieces will take in practically 85 per cent of our total importations. The others are special carbons.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. You pay from 60 to 80 cents?

Mr. CARY. From 60 to 80 cents.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. And how much freight do you pay? You stated it a while ago; but how much does the freight amount to per hundred pieces?

Mr. CARY. Per hundred pieces? It would be one-tenth; about 6 to 7 cents per hundred pieces.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. And do you pay any marine insurance?

Mr. CARY. That is almost negligible.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. Is there any loss from breakage?

Mr. CARY. In the condition in which we import them at the present time-not in single lengths, not in the normal condition, but in the condition in which we have to import them in order to have a price. at which we can sell at all-there is considerable breakage.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. What does that amount to?

Mr. CARY. It will amount, with us, to an average of 7 to 8 per cent. Mr. UNDERWOOD. Seven or 8 per cent?

Mr. CARY. Yes, sir.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. Then, taking the American carbon to average 85 cents and the imported carbon to average 70 cents, and abroad you add 15 cents for breakage and freight, that brings them to 85 cents, which would make the cost of the American carbon in New York and of the imported carbon about the same without the duty, would it not?

Mr. CARY. On that basis of figuring; yes, sir.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. And the duty amounts, in reality, the way you import them, to about 45 cents a hundred?

Mr. CARY. About 45 cents a hundred; yes, sir.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. So this company, then, has the protection of 45 cents a hundred on an article on which the labor cost is only 20 per cent?

Mr. CARY. Not over that; no, sir.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. Not over 20 per cent?

Mr. CARY. No, sir.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. And that makes the labor cost an average of about 16 to 20 cents in the carbon and a protective rate of about 45 cents per hundred carbons?

Mr. CARY. Yes, sir.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. That is all I wish to ask.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to ask a question or two. You import these carbons double length, do you not?

Mr. CARY. We do; yes, sir; where possible.

The CHAIRMAN. And then cut them in two in order to use them? Mr. CARY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. For the purpose of evading the duty of so much on carbons?

Mr. CARY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. So that you get them in at half the rate which was originally fixed?

Mr. CARY. We do.

The CHAIRMAN. And the rate was fixed after a full hearing of the people who imported and the people who wanted to manufacture them, was it not?

Mr. CARY. There are no reports of any hearings in the reports of the Ways and Means Committee of 1897.

The CHAIRMAN. The government report would show about 20 cents a hundred valuation of imported carbons?

Mr. CARY. That would double, as they double the lengths.

The CHAIRMAN. Twenty cents per hundred for the double lengths? Mr. CARY. Because in the statistics they call each piece a carbon. The CHAIRMAN. That is the way you get your 40 cents-by reduc ing them back to honest figures, is it?

Mr. CARY. I did not quite catch that, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. The government reports show that they are imporated at 20 cents a hundred for the double lengths. That would be 10 cents a hundred for a single carbon, would it not?

Mr. CARY. No, sir. The government reports must show the minimum of 45 cents, because the duty is 90 cents per hundred pieces, Mr. Chairman. The government statistics which are before you show that in 1897 the absolute duty, in the condition in which they were when imported, was 46,5% per cent. That is the statistical report. The specific rate upon the total pieces gave an ad valorem equivalent of 46100

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The CHAIRMAN. Yes; that is correct. Do you know anything about the cost of manufacturing?

Mr. CARY. I do abroad; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You do not manufacture, yourself?

Mr. CARY. Not the carbons. They are manufactured in this country.

The CHAIRMAN. Does not Brush manufacture them?

Mr. CARY. The Brush Company is no longer in existence.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any manufactured in this country?

Mr. CARY. Ninety per cent of them, I should say, are manufactured in this country.

The CHAIRMAN. Where are they manufactured?

Mr. CARY. At various places. Cleveland is the largest factory, as far as I am aware; then Lancaster

The CHAIRMAN. And the principal market is 700 miles from Cleveland?

Mr. CARY. Oh, the market extends from Maine to California.

The CHAIRMAN. Certainly; but the average is several hundred miles from Cleveland, and the freight rates by railroad would be as much from Cleveland to the market as they are from Europe to the market, would they not?

Mr. CARY. No; because we pay our freight rate before we enter the market. They are in the market, if you are speaking of freight rates in that connection.

The CHAIRMAN. What difference does that make? They have to be transported from the place of manufacture to where they are used, have they not?

Mr. CARY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Some one has got to pay it?

Mr. CARY. Very true.

The CHAIRMAN. The freight for the American product is more than the freight for the European product, is it not?

Mr. CARY. No, sir. We pay the same freight as the domestic manufacturers if we ship to a given point. We repay the land haul from New York.

The CHAIRMAN. But you have a large market in New York?

Mr. CARY. We could stand a much larger one. Our worthy domestic competitors have the New York market, principally.

The CHAIRMAN. Where do you sell?

Mr. CARY. Wherever we have the opportunity. We do sell from Portland, Me., to Los Angeles, Cal. We sell comparatively very little in New York.

The CHAIRMAN. Then you do sell in New York?

Mr. CARY. From New York, yes, sir; and partially, to a limited extent, at New York.

The CHAIRMAN. In New York?

Mr. CARY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And do you ship them all to New York from abroad?

Mr. CARY. We have to remanufacture them, practically-that is, break them in two. We can not import them in condition to be used, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Oh, you have to cut them in two?

Mr. CARY. We have to unpack them and cut them in two.

The CHAIRMAN. And point them?

Mr. CARY. No, they are pointed on either end. We just cut them in two.

The CHAIRMAN. I see.

Mr. CARY. And repack them, and then ship them.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you not think it would be a little fairer to have the law fixed so that they would be imported in the proper length, and not have you have the trouble of cutting them in two?

Mr. CARY. Most decidedly. However, I do not think that either the Ways and Means Committee or Congress ever intended to shut us out of the market at all under normal conditions.

The CHAIRMAN. That is a rather unnecessary expense for the American consumer to pay, is it not?

Mr. CARY. Decidedly. Mr. Reisinger, who will follow me, will tell you something about that from his own experience.

The CHAIRMAN. I wish you would give me the figures.

Mr. CARY. The increase in the selling price since the tariff of 1897 went into force

The CHAIRMAN. I wish you would give me the different items, and file them with the stenographer between now and the 4th of December, showing the labor cost and the various items of cost of the article abroad, laid down in the port of New York. Show me the various items. Will you do that?

Mr. CARY. With pleasure.

The CHAIRMAN. All right; that is all.

Mr. COCKRAN. You said that about 10 per cent of these carbons were imported?

Mr. CARY. Yes, sir.

Mr. COCKRAN. Can you explain the importation of that amount? Is it a peculiar kind of carbon?

Mr. CARY. The only carbon that has ever been imported from Europe was the so-called " inclosed arc-light carbon." The other type of carbon that is manufactured in large quantities to-day, but in larger quantities before our present type of lamp came into use, and such as the Brush Company always manufactured has never been imported, because it has never been manufactured abroad.

Mr. COCKRAN. So that there is practically no foreign competition at all for about 90 per cent of these carbons?

Mr. CARY. No. Of the 200,000,000 I should say that possibly a maximum of 50,000,000 are of the type that are manufactured in Europe, of which possibly the importers control 20 per cent, which is 10 per cent of the total, allowing 150,000,000 for the open are and 50,000,000 for the inclosed arc.

Mr. COCKRAN. So that the largest quantity of these carbons are manufactured in this country practically without competition from abroad?

Mr. CARY. Absolutely.

STATEMENT OF MR. HUGO REISINGER, OF NEW YORK CITY.

Mr. REISINGER. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, my friend Mr. Cary put the matter so intelligently before you that I can be very brief on this question.

It was not my desire to air my views each ten years on this matter, but it affords me pleasure to come before you, and I am glad to be given the opportunity to show that the excessive duty placed on electric-light carbons works a hardship on the consumer, as since the Dingley tariff went into effect the prices on this most necessary article advanced more than 50 per cent-700 per cent.

The only one to benefit by this exorbitant rate of duty of $9 per 1,000 is the so-called "carbon trust," the National Carbon Company, of Cleveland, who could easily sell their carbons at half their present prices and still make enough to pay dividends on their actual investment. I don't mean $5,500,000 watered stock, but their actual investment of $4,500,000. As it is now, owing to the beneficent protection accorded them, I understand they are able to pay 7 per cent