smaller mining operations and I am hopeful that they will deal some time during their testimony with the situation as it affects the smaller mines, should this legislation be enacted. That is all, Mr. Chairman. Mr. LUCAS. Thank you, Mr. Bailey.

Gentlemen, how do you wish to proceed? Is one of you the speaker? Mr. Howes. If you please, I will go first and then Mr. Tetrick will follow me and then Mr. Hartman.

Mr. LUCAS. Then you are Mr. Howes.

Mr. Howes. That is right.

Mr. LUCAS. Introduce yourself for the record, will you, please, and then proceed.

STATEMENT OF ALFRED L HOWES,

CLARKSBURG, W. VA.;

COAL

COAL

PRESIDENT, CENTRAL WEST VIRGINIA
ASSOCIATION

PRODUCERS

Mr. HowES. I will, thank you. My name is Alfred L. Howes. I live in Clarksburg, W. Va., and I appear here as president of the Central West Virginia Coal Producers Association, an organization of really small coal producers.

We feel that, broadly speaking, we represent all small business, all of the little, independent Americans who are continually caught in the economic "no-man's land" which results from the constant battle between big labor and big business.

To explain that slightly, big coal producers gave the check-off to the union with the promise that the money turned over would be used to organize nonunion mines and eliminate them from competitive market. In a close market big coal today says that we can undersell them because we do not pay 30 cents a ton to the United Mine Workers' fund, which is true. The United Mine Workers want us out of the way for the same reason, because we don't pay 30 cents a ton to the fund. They also want us out of the way because when they strike, we continue to work.

We, the small people, do not have the striking power of organized labor. We do not have the financial resources of big business. We do not have the influence of lobbying power of either, but we do have the courage of self-determination and an inherent faith in our individual freedom as Americans, and this freedom we intend to maintain. We are small, we are only loosely organized, but we will not be coerced. We will not be intimidated.

I can tell you here that it has been tried.

When I returned from Europe at the conclusion of World War II, I became interested in a small mine in Braxton County. It is one of the smallest mines in West Virginia, I am sure, but it is typical of many of the mines which I represent here.

How do small operators feel about safety?

The small operator's interest in mine safety is very personal for several reasons. In our small operations most of us are well acquainted with our men and often with their families; first names are the rule rather than the exception. Not only do we want these men protected and educated in safety from the standpoint of common sense and personal relationship, but, in the cold fight of fact, a small operator literally cannot afford accidents. He has too small a margin of production, he cannot shift his working places readily, he has too

little financial latitude, and in West Virginia when he has an accident his workmen's compensation rate goes to an almost impossible figure, What do we small operators do?

One, we produce a comparatively small amount of coal for local use and some for shipping. In our present undeclared national emergency, I consider this important. We produce our small tonnages consistently We produce when the big unions are at work. We also produce when they are on strike.

Second, small mines provide work for thousands of miners who are too old, who are tired of the routine of big mine operation, or who through family obligation or simply by choice prefer to live at home. Many of these men consider themselves better off at home with family, garden, and farm animals than away from home with a bigger pay check chewed up by transportation, shanty costs, union dues, assessments, et cetera.

Three, small mines supply considerable business for truckers and individual haulers as most small operators cannot afford a railroad siding, a ramp, or their own trucks. We estimate that between 15,000 and 20,000 men would lose their present means of livelihood if the small mines of West Virginia were shut down.

We do not inter in any way that economic factors justify laxity in safety, but neither do we accept that fallacious premise that safe, smallmine operation should be predicated upon the observance of any laws other than those of common sense, the sovereign State of West Virginia and the United States of America.

To the small-mine owners "control" legislation labeled "safety" is an old story. In 1949 a member of West Virginia's House of Delegates proposed such a "control" bill labeled "safety." It was packaged and ready to go before its existence was generally known. It was finally defeated. In 1951 this same bill, somewhat more polished, reappeared as the "fire boss bill." It was still labeled "safety," but was in reality a featherbed proposition designed to increase control in the big mines and to make it impossible to operate a small mine. During the last 2 days of this fight, so-called "big wheels” were flown from Washington to Charleston to try to push this bill through. It, too, was defeated.

The bills which you gentlemen now have under consideration sound very familiar to us. Their passage in our opinion will not increase the safety in our mines; will not reduce the number of accidents, fatal or nonfatal; will not increase the safety education or safety practice on which we believe better safety must be based.

The passage of this bill will, we believe, emasculate and destroy the extremely well organized and effective State Mine Department of West Virginia; obviate the current and long-range safety educational program in which we have great confidence; decrease safety through the chaos of divided authority and contradictory code requirements We do not believe that you can effectively legislate safety any more than you can legislate morality or any more than this country was able to effectively legislate prohibition. We do believe that you can teach safety and that you can encourage its practice. We further believe that the State mine departments can do this more effectively in their respective States than can a Federal Bureau. We feel that is particularly true in West Virginia.

We are believers in safety. We recognize that coal mining is a hazardous occupation; however, the records show that the major portion of mine accidents are based on human failure due to negligence, carelessness, fatigue or that "familiarity breeds contempt" for the actual dangers. We believe that constant supervision and insistent education is the way to greater safety. We believe that the sovereign State of West Virginia is a leader in these salient factors of mine safety education and mine safety practices, and in its cooperation with the present Federal Bureau of Mines.

It might perhaps be simpler if Congress were to secure the cooperation of the seven noncooperative States than to set up a gigantic bureau which would destroy the State departments of the 17 cooperative States which have been paid for by the taxpayers of those States.

We respectfully request that you take a truly objective view of the deliberately malicious inference, sometimes voiced, that every mine operator is a callous killer at heart; that every man with the initiative to own and operate his own mine, the temerity to defy goon squads, the insolence to be independent is per se, a butcher.

We are killing hundreds of men in Korea today for the maintenance, as we believe, of this Union of sovereign States not for the creation, of a greater bureaucracy. We urge you to look closely and not allow the label "safety" to sell you a bill which we believe is designed for control.

I thank you.

Mr. LUCAS. Do you wish to subject yourself to questioning now or do you wish us to hear Mr. Tetrick and Mr. Hartman first?

Mr. Howes. If there are any questions in your minds I would be glad to answer now.

Mr. PERKINS. I have no questions.

Mr. BAILEY. No questions.

Mr. TACKETT. No questions.

Mr. MORTON. You made a mighty good statement and I was glad to hear it. I want to read you one from a man in Kentucky and see if you think there is any comparison between the situation which the members of your association face in West Virginia and what some of our people are up against in Kentucky. This is written by a man whom I don't know but he was testifying before a committee of the Kentucky State Legislature.

Mr. PERKINS. What page of the hearings is that on, please?

Mr. MORTON. It is not marked. It is a fellow by the name of York. A Mr. York-that is all I know about him-was appearing last week or the previous week before a committee similar to this, of our Kentucky State Legislature, considering a bill. He says:

I commenced mining coal in 1916 and have done everything from the bottom to the top. Along at the close of the last war I quit bossing for a firm and leased and bought some mining lands and ever since I have been trying to operate this mine. I have had four factions coming at me to shut me down. The first one that approached me was a fellow by the name of Guttery out of Harlan County, Percy Guttery. He said, "York, you had better hold your job of foreman up there. They are going to shut you down." I said, "Why?" He said, "Why? The United Mine Workers is going to make you sign a contract and you can't run that mine and pay the scale.' "Well," I said, "maybe they will do that." Then after they seen they couldn't do that they got the Department of Mines on me, never did come around us before. They come in and they found every

thing in the world wrong, said, "We recommend this," "We recommend that on this solid chute.'

And so forth.

I pass over some.

They will come along, they will say, "You have got to have 6,000 cubic feet of air at the last break regardless of the amount of air you have there." We have some mines that we have had shut down. We had natural ventilation so that you couldn't sit in there and eat your dinner without freezing. Still they come along with, "This has got to be done and you have got to have this fan." This is a Kentucky man talking. Have you been up against that in West Virginia?

Mr. HowES. I have not personally had that experience, but I know that it has occurred.

Mr. MORTON. That is all, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. LUCAS. Mr. Vail?

Mr. VAIL. Mr. Howes, does your association maintain its own accident records?

Mr. HOWES. No. Our association is rather small, and we have not gone into that. I will say that the accident record of the small mines of West Virginia, I think, will stand up with that of any part of the country. I believe it is much better, as a matter of fact. Mr. Alexander, who will be here, has that broken down in all categories, I understand.

Mr. VAIL. And he will represent your association, will he?"

Mr. HOWES. No, sir; he will not. He will speak for the Mine Department of the State of West Virginia, sir.

Mr. VAIL. You have no specific records on which to base your opinion?

Mr. HowES. No; except I know that we haven't had any fatalities. Mr. VAIL. No fatalities at all?

Mr. HowES. Not in our association.

Mr. VAIL. Throughout the entire association?

Mr. HOWES. No, sir.

Mr. VAIL. How many mines does that comprise?

Mr. Howes. Our mine group varies because of economics. Mines come and go. I would say we have probably between 50 and 60, because some drop out and new ones come in.

Mr. VAIL. How many employees do those mines average?

Mr. Howes. I would judge they average about 15, possibly 20. Mr. VAIL. No further questions.

Mr. LUCAS. I have one question, Mr. Howes: Could you and the other members of your association continue to produce coal if you were compelled to comply with the present Federal code?

Mr. HOWES. As it is now in being or as it is proposed?

Mr. LUCAS. As it is presently in being. We don't know how it might be changed under the proposal.

Mr. HOWES. So far as I know, we are in compliance. My people have both Federal and State inspections. I think that there are red marks which come up in almost every mine inspection. I think Mr. Kelley, the chairman, is widely experienced in that. I believe it is almost impossible to inspect a mine and not find that a man is not wearing glasses or he left his hard shoes off or he wouldn't set a safety post when he was told or something of that sort.

Mr. LUCAS. You say to this committee that you are presently in compliance with what is known as the Federal code now.

Mr. Howes. To the best of my knowledge; yes.

Mr. LUCAS. Then you would continue to produce coal if this code were made a national law and enforceable by the Secretary of the Interior?

Mr. HOWES. I wouldn't want to guarantee that.

Mr. LUCAS. That is all.

Mr. PERKINS. I have one question: Did you hear Mr. Forbes testify yesterday afternoon?

Mr. HOWES. I heard part of Mr. Forbes' testimony; yes.

Mr. PERKINS. Did you hear him say that legislation of the type that we are now considering, which would lodge power with the Federal Bureau of Mines, would not work a hardship on the truck mines? I think we have more truck mines in Kentucky than you have in the remainder of the Nation, but perhaps to put the mines in shape the cost would be nominal. Did you hear him state that in substance.yesterday afternoon?

Mr. HowES. I did not hear him state that.

Mr. TACKETT. What distinguishes a small mining operation from a large mining operation?

Mr. HowES. In the West Virginia Legislature I got into quite a hassel about that. There was some contention as to what constituted a small mine. I would say this, if I may. To me a small mine is any mine that is operated by an individual or a partnership. If two men can run it and operate it and supervise it, I think it is small. Mr. TACKETT. In other words, if a mine can be managed and supervised by one or two men, you would call that a small operation. Mr. HOWES. Yes; I would.

Mr. TACKETT. Then the number of employees would not be the factor to distinugish them?

Mr. Howes. It perhaps should be a factor, but the point is that you get into a big argument as to how many is small. It is the same thing as how high is up. It is something above the eye level, but whose eye?

Mr. TACKETT. You don't mean by your statement that if two men could own the mine. Of course one man could own the biggest mine in the world if he had enough money.

Mr. HowES. Yes.

Mr. TACKETT. What you mean is if two men could supervise it and manage it and control it.

Mr. Howes. I don't mean absentee ownership; no, sir.

Mr. TACKETT. What you mean is that there would be only two men actually operating all the mine.

Mr. Howes. Let me say, for example. It is not true, but say Mr. Hartman and I owned a mine. I don't know how many men we would have in it, but if he and I were together running the mine, operating it, and seeing that it was properly run, I think it would constitute a small operation; yes.

Mr. TACKETT. Of course you could have a dozen straw bosses and so forth, and so on. That could become a big operation even though

just two of you owned it, could it not?

Mr. Howes. It could conceivably be.

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