MR. BERNAL OSBORNE: The right hon. Gentleman will allow me to correct him. I was asked to appear there, but I refused.

has this evening addressed to the House. | in my hand; but, nevertheless, it is a fact Sir, I thought it my duty to call the atten- that Dovor did elect a Secretary of the tion of the House to the very important Admiralty; and à fortiori, when the disprinciple which I conceive is involved in solution occurs, it is not impossible that it this matter, in order that they should may elect a Naval Lord of the Admiralty. not be diverted from it by the lively com- Now, I am not personally acquainted with ments of the hon. Gentleman who still re- Sir Henry Leeke; but I have always presents Dovor (Mr. Bernal Osborne); and heard him spoken of as a very distinguished I do entreat the House, whatever observa- man who had gained laurels in the Persian tions may be made, or whatever course Sea. I once saw him, and I must say he they may take on any particular appoint did not give me the idea of a gentleman of ment, or on the details which have been seventy. One thing must be admitted; adverted to in the course of this slight dis- he has shown great activity in his present cussion, not to be induced by party feel- capacity. A gentleman who has been at ings to sanction the principle, that it is not Devonport, and on the same day finds himexpedient that the public service of the self at Dovor, does not, it appears to me, Admiralty should be represented in this betoken any great degree of decrepitude. House by professional gentlemen. I do He seems only to be fashioning his career not know anything which would tend more on that of a more distinguished predecessor to diminish the influence of the House of than himself; because I have been inCommons, and I hardly know anything formed-perhaps erroneously, for many of which would have a more clear tendency the observations made this evening appear to establish an inefficient administration not to have much foundation-that the than a permanent Board of naval officers. present distinguished Member for Dovor I am certain those changes which, to a did at the last general election first appear very great degree must take place from at Devonport. the action of the constitution, have a beneficial effect on the Board of Admiralty. If we had in that Board a body of permanent naval officers, without Parliamentary responsibility and criticism, we should have an administration quite behind the spirit of the times, bound up by obsolete prejudices, and by no means equal to the stern demands of the present crisis. I hope the house will be of opinion that my right hon. Friend has only done his duty in endeavouring to place the administration of the Admiralty on its proper basis in that respect. I will touch but lightly on the grievance of the hon. Member for Dovor. That hon. Gentleman wants to know why Dovor should be called a Government borough. I quite concede the point to him. I do not know that there is a single ground for so regarding it, and therefore I should think the hon. Gentleman and his friends will not be offended by the Government having suggested that Dovor would be a place for which a Lord of the Admiralty might be elected. He would there have an independent seat, and there might be some sympathies between a port and a distinguished naval officer, as we know there have been sympathies between Dovor and a gentleman connected with the Admiralty. Dovor may be, and I believe is, completely independent. I don't believe the influence of the Government there is worth as much as the letter I now hold

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: The hon. Gentleman must admit, however, that there is some foundation for the statement I have just made, which is more than can be said for some of the statements that have been made on this occasion. I will not at all venture to predict what may be the result of the coming contest to the hon. Gentleman the present Member for Dovor. All I can say is that that if Sir Henry Leeke represent Dovor in the next Parliament, and the hon. Gentleman the present Member do not, I sincerely hope the hon. Gentleman will find a seat elsewhere.

SIR GEORGE GREY said, the real question was, whether the First Lord of the Admiralty was acting in accordance with his duty in placing one, two, or three seats before the Naval Lords, and insisting upon their sitting for the one or the other of them. But his reason for rising was, to say a word or two for the gallant officer to whom allusion had been made. He had known Captain Carnegie from the time that he first entered the naval service; he was also intimately acquainted with his family; and he believed him as incapable of the breach of an honourable engagement into which he had entered as the right hon.

Gentleman the First Lord of the Admiralty himself. He (Sir George Grey) contended that the telegram from Captain Carnegie which had been read during the discussion was in perfect conformity with the understanding which had subsisted between him and the right hon. Gentleman the First Lord, inasmuch as the clear inference from that message was, that he declined to stand for a place where he could not hope to succeed. He (Sir George Grey) hoped, therefore, the right hon. Gentleman would feel it his duty to withdraw the insinuation he had made against Captain Carnegie.

ment was so extraordinary that he (Lord Claud Hamilton) must ask permission to relate the circumstances to the House. It so happened that his regiment of militia was quartered at Dovor last year, and he made the acquaintance of Captain Macilwain, who came to him and pressed him over and over again, as the greatest possible favour that could be conferred upon him, to write to the First Lord of the Admiralty and get him removed from Dovor. The ground which he stated for making that request was not any temporary inconvenience which he experienced, but that the peculiar mildness of the climate did not suit his wife's health. At last he (Lord

SIR CHARLES NAPIER said, he also must express his astonishment at the man-Claud Hamilton) consented, and wrote the ner in which the First Lord of the Admiralty had spoken of Captain Carnegie. Further, he wished to know whether Admiral Martin had left the Admiralty, and his reason for so doing.

SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, he would remind the gallant Admiral that he had already stated that he was not at liberty to state the personal grounds which induced Admiral Martin to retire from the Admiralty.

SIR CHARLES NAPIER continued to observe, that he did not join in the opinion that because Sir Henry Leeke had been put on the retired list, he ought not to have been removed from it; for it was the unanimous opinion of the officers of the Royal Navy that Sir Henry Leeke's services in the Persian Gulf, in the service of the East India Company, should have been taken into account, and prevented his being placed on the retired list. It was, however, quite another question whether Sir Henry Leeke was the man to call to the Admiralty Board. He regretted much that these jobbings had taken place at the Admiralty at a time when war was impending, and that such a man as Admiral Dundas should have been so pressed to contest a borough that he felt compelled to tender his resignation. If the First Lord of the Admiralty should continue to hold his present office after the general election-which was not at all likely-he (Sir Charles Napier) trusted that what had now occurred would be a lesson to him. The fact was, an entire change ought to be made in the constitution of the Board.

letter. It was perfectly true that Captain Macilwain wished not for a similar situation, but stipulated for a higher rank, and he understood that he had made a similar application to a previous First Lord of the Admiralty. His right hon. Friend replied that he could not at that time do what the gallant Captain asked; but a satisfactory arrangement had been made. It was therefore to his (Lord Claud Hamilton's) astonishment that the hon. Member for Dovor stated that Captain Macilwain had since seen him, and told him that he did not appprove of the arrangement then made. He (Lord Claud Hamilton) had also seen him; but so far from expressing anything like discontent, he rather expressed himself grateful to the First Lord, although he had stated that he was sorry he was not able to give him increased rank, because he was placed on the retired list.

SIR ERSKINE PERRY said, he must be permitted to state in justice to the hon. Member for Dovor, that the contradiction which the noble Lord had just given, although apparently a flat contradiction, was not so really. His hon. Friend said that Captain Macilwain had applied to retire from the service some years ago, and was refused, and that he had now been placed upon the retired list, without his consent or application, and even against his remonstrances; and that statement Captain Macilwain had himself made to a relation of his (Sir Erskine Perry's), a man of distinguished rank in the navy, no longer ago than Sunday last. It appeared to him also that the First Lord of the LORD CLAUD HAMILTON said, that Admiralty and the Chancellor of the Exthe hon. Member for Dovor, in referring to chequer had kept out of sight the most Captain Macilwain, had charged the First important point in this discussion, namely, Lord of the Admiralty with having forced the mode in which the boroughs were that gentleman from Dovor, and the state-treated to which the First Lord thought of

sending down candidates. [Sir JOHN PAK- | the arrangement that had been made, and INGTON intimated that he had named no that he left Dovor entirely on account of boroughs]. He (Sir Erskine Perry) knew the illness of his wife. that the right hon. Gentleman had not; but he thought it was due to the House that he should give their names. At all events, the House would perceive from the right hon. Gentleman's confession that he had been stimulating gentlemen to seek seats in Parliament by offering a seat at the Board of Admiralty as the reward of their success. That confession was clear throughout the right hon. Gentleman's speech. The naval profession were well aware of the conduct of the Earl of Derby's Government with respect to those boroughs in the year 1852; and he spoke from personal experience when he said that the conduct of the Government on that occasion was most flagrant and even disgrace ful. There was such an abuse of patronage and power as had not been witnessed for forty years in this country. And the charge which the Opposition now brought against the Ministry of the present day was, that on the eve of an election the First Lord of the Admiralty was encouraging a recurrence to the same practices. For here was Sir Henry Leeke, an admiral, promoted from the retired list, and lately made a K.C.B., going down to Devonport and stating that he had an understanding with the Government that he was to contest that borough, and promising the electors that if he were successful he would obtain the Government patronage for Devonport which was now exercised at Portsmouth. He contended, then, that, this was a recurrence to the practices which had been so unanimously demounced by a Select Committee of the House, that the Government had not given any answer to this part of the charge, and that the part which the First Lord had been playing more resembled the conduct of a Secretary to the Treasury, or a whipper-in, than that of a man charged with the duties of the high office he now filled.

COLONEL KNOX said, he rose not to prolong this hustings discussion, but to confirm every word that had fallen from his noble Friend (Lord C. Hamilton), with regard to Captain Macilwain, notwithstanding the denial which had been given upon hearsay by the hon. Member who had just addressed the House. Captain Macilwain was a friend of his own, and had told him precisely what had been stated by the noble Lord at the United Service Club, that he was not the least discontented with

MR. T. DUNCOMBE said, he did not wish to have anything to do with the private arrangements within the walls of the Admiralty, but as they were on the eve of a general election, he wished to say a few words on the subject. In the first place he should like to know what the people of England would think of the conversation that had just taken place. He had always thought that the House of Commons was instituted for the purpose of securing the representation of the people, but they had been deliberately told by the First Lord that night that it was necessary that the Board of Admiralty should be represented there, that there were certain boroughs in the pockets of the Admiralty for that purpose, and that it was necessary to have naval officers in the House to assist the First Lord, who was a civilian. But surely it would be a more common sense arrangement to put a naval officer at the head of the Admiralty at once. For what were the naval officers wanted here? To instruct the right hon. Gentleman in the duties of his office. His (Mr. Duncombe's) advice was, that if these naval officers were required in the House to guide the Minister, they should sit there ex officio. But another course which was open to the right hon. Gentleman was, that he himself should retire from the Board of Admiralty, and go back to the Worcestershire Quarter Sessions, whose bench he had adorned as chairman for so long a time. These were important times to live in. We ought to have at the head of the Admiralty persons who were conversant with naval affairs; and he was quite sure that if the right hon. Gentleman did retire, the flag of England would float quite as triumphantly on the seas as it had done for many years past.

SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, he hoped the House would allow him to make an explanation on a matter which was personal to himself-he alluded to what had fallen from the gallant Admiral the Member for the East Riding (Admiral Duncombe). It was true that he (Sir John Pakington) had offered the gallant Admiral a seat at the Board of Admiralty, and he was never more astonished than when he heard this evening that he had made that offer in terms that rendered it impossible for the gallant Admiral to accept it. He (Sir John Pakington) could only say that he had

CLEARANCE INWARDS AND LIEN FOR
FREIGHT BILL.

LEAVE-FIRST READING.

Order for Committee read. House in Committee.

made the offer in terms as courteous and friendly as such offers were usually made, and he could only explain what had fallen from the hon. and gallant Member this evening, by supposing, for he spoke from memory, that he (Sir John Pakington) had used some such expression as requesting him to resume, or something to that effect, the place at the Board which the gallant Admiral had held under the administration of the Duke of Northumberland; and as the hon. and gallant Member was a naval officer, he was not aware that he had filled the fifth place on that Board, which was usually occupied by a civilian. He certainly thought he had explained that mistake to the gallant Admiral, for the truth was, that at the time be made the offer, he fully believed that the hon. and gallant Member had filled the office of a Naval Lord of the Admiralty.

LORD LOVAINE explained that the law was at present in an unsatisfactory state as to the rights of shipowners. The object of the Bill was to pass a general Act which should give all the powers at present conferred by local Acts, without superseding the latter. It was not intended to proceed further than printing the Bill during the present Session. Resolution agreed to. House resumed. Bill read 1o.

ENDOWED SCHOOLS (No. 2) BILL.
WITHDRAWAL OF BILL.

ADMIRAL DUNCOMBE observed, that Order for Second Reading read. what the right hon. Gentleman had just MR. DILLWYN said, he had presented stated was perfectly correct; but from that a large number of petitions in favour of this time to this the right hon. Gentleman had Bill, but at the same time he did not innever offered him any explanation. He tend to press it during the present Session. attributed it to the right hon. Gentleman's He merely wished to say with reference to ignorance on naval matters and of the feel- the many attacks which had been made ings of naval men, that he had made the on the Bill in the papers and at public offer as he had done, and it was that con- meetings, to the effect that it was an agviction which had prevented him from mak-gression on the Church of England, that, ing any complaint on the subject.

SIR DE LACY EVANS was understood to inquire when the report on the dockyards, to which reference had been made some evenings since, would be placed on the table. He also called attention to the large number of troops in India, and asked if it was in contemplation to send out any addition to the artillery there?

LORD STANLEY said, that the Report referred to by the hon. and gallant General had been somewhat delayed, but it would be laid upon the table in the course of the Session, and that the hon. and gallant Member was right in supposing that under the present circumstances it was not the intention of the Government to send out any more artillery.

MR. W. WILLIAMS said, he wished to ask if the Appropriation Bill contained a clause stating the deviation of the sum expended from those voted in the House?

SIR HENRY WILLOUGHBY asked if the Act was drawn in the usual form?

SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE said, he had to reply to both questions in the

affirmative.

Bill read 2o.

in point of fact, it was the Church which had, in the first instance, assumed the aggressive towards the Dissenters. The action of the latter was merely defensive, and as it was understood that the aggressive action of the Church was to be persisted in, it was necessary that some legislative measure should be interposed to prevent it.

Order discharged. Bill withdrawn.

BALLOT.-LEAVE.

MR. H. BERKELEY said, he rose, pursuant to notice, to move for leave to bring in a Bill to cause the votes of the Parliamentary electors of Great Britain and Ireland to be taken by way of ballot. The first thing, perhaps, that would strike the House might be, that the present was not a very opportune moment for bringing been started on a previous night, and a it forward. The question, however, had partial division taken, but no arguments had been used, nor would they have been listened to at such a moment. the present appeared to him to be an extremely proper time for bringing the question before the House, or rather, he should say, the country, which was so soon to be

And yet

£50,000 a day had begun to be spent on electioneering. They would be told no doubt that the money would be spent honourably by the candidates; but would the people of England believe them? Such was the state of things under which he was then addressing the House, and for the twelfth time, annually and successively was he there to urge upon the House the consideration of the means by which alone they could hope to escape the giant evils of their electoral system. If they should not be able altogether to remove the stumbling block of bribery, they might at least alleviate the evils which were such a scandal and a disgrace to the electors. He must congratulate such hon. Friends of his as had always supported the ballot upon the position in which the question now stood. It had been admitted in the House and out of the House, that it was that question of reform which above all others was most sought for by the people, and most earnestly demanded. He might refer to the gratifying fact that the majority had steadily increased year by year, until at the present moment there were 238 Members who had recorded their votes in favour of the ballot during the present Parliament.

appealed to on the whole question of the franchise. Once before, and once only, had he stood in the same position as regarded this question as that in which he stood at the present moment, and that was just previous to the election of 1852, when Parliament was about to be dissolved under circumstances similar to those which were now about to send them all back to their constituents. Then humbly and feebly, but zealously, did he lay before the House the state of things which would arise in consequence of the coming dissolution. He told them that the country was about to be plunged into a Saturnalia, in which every vicious principle would be encouraged, when intimidation would stalk and drunkenness would stagger through the land, and when in consequence the electors of this country would stand before the world as a set of debased and degraded voting machines. That prophecy of his was fully realized by the election that followed. Indeed, so bad was the state of things in 1852, that even the Earl of Aberdeen admitted that the condition of our electoral system was such, as that no man could be enamoured of it. But exactly the same influences prevailed then which were threatened now. The two great factions of the In the election which was State had had a dispute and a division approaching, he believed that the question which had terminated in favour of one of would be urged upon every candidate, and them. The objects of the assault had therefore he trusted the House would bear been Whitehall and Downing Street, and with him while he endeavoured to dispel both attack and defence had exhibited ex- certain delusions, and to correct certain traordinary valour and perseverance, but fallacies which had been indulged in by the result must be a dissolution of Parlia- those who opposed secret voting, and adment, and he asked the House whether vocated the present system. He had bethat dissolution would not place the coun- fore stated that the constituencies one and try in exactly the position which it held in all cried out for the ballot, and he hoped the year 1852? The result of the election of he was not over sanguine in expressing his 1852 was, that the House determined upon, earnest hope that many leading statesmen doing something, but was equally bent in that House who had hitherto turned upon doing nothing effectually. They ap- their back upon it would at no distant pointed a Committee, unfortunately the period consent to become its advocates. usual scapegoat in that House, and that Committee investigated the corruption which had been made so manifest at the election. It finished with a Report; and, strange to say, that Report was acted upon by the House. But how was it acted upon? By the production of the Corrupt Practices at Elections Prevention Act, which in his opinion would have been more correctly called the Corrupt Practices Encourage ment Act. Under that Act, intended to prevent, but which really encouraged corrupt practices, they were now going to the country. Let them read the statement in The Times of that morning, that already

When this question was first handed over to him by Sir Henry Ward it was treated with a sort of sneering contempt by the press, and more particularly by that great organ of the press, The Times. That journal used to say that the ballot came in with green peas and early gooseberries, but now articles were written by the yard against the ballot, teeming with violence, and sometimes with personalities, and always remarkable for the absence of reasoning. It was clear that hon. Gentleman in that House opposed the ballot with masks on their faces, and were actuated by some latent feeling that they dared not express.