consideration, whenever the Government great Continental States; but he could may deem it right to take up the subject, not help thinking it would be a great should not lead them to put two or three mistake to model the military system of systems on their trial. Let them make this country, with all its idiosyncracies up their minds as to what the best system and peculiarities, on any foreign system is to adopt, and adopt it--for depend whatsoever. As to the remarks which upon it if they put different systems on had been made about bringing the trial they will succeed in none, and the several forces of this country into harcountry will be no better provided to mony with one another, he would merely meet any contingency which may arise observe that, instead of troubling ourthan it is at the present moment. selves with a vast system of organization,

LORD TRURO expressed his opinion, the preferable course, so far as he could as a Volunteer, that the Volunteer Force see, would be to bring to a state of the could never act effectively in this country utmost perfection the several branches of except as an auxiliary to the Regular our defences. He lamented that year Army; and, at the same time, he urged after year reforms in that respect had that it was most desirable that the War been postponed ; and he trusted, after the Department should pay much greater at- repeated inquiries which had been institention than it had hitherto done to the tuted into the subject, the Government organization, development, and equip- would become alive to the fact that the ment of the Volunteers, in order that country would no longer be content with they might be as efficient an auxiliary allowing our defences to remain in their force as possible. The question which present unsatisfactory condition; and he had been raised by the noble Lord who trusted that another Session would not opened the discussion (Lord Monck) was, be allowed to pass without a remedy he might add, a very large one. The being applied. The question was one on noble Lord very properly gave credit to which he had intended to make some the Government for having recalled from further observations ; but, owing to the the colonies several of the regiments lateness of the hour, he should postpone which had been stationed there ; but he those observations to a future occasion. very much doubted whether this country LORD NORTHBROOK said, he wished would remain satisfied hereafter with a to explain that for this year the arrangeforce of sixty-one battalions. As their ment for completing the cadres of the Lordships were aware, there had al- infantry battalions of the Line, which now ways existed in England a very rightful stood at 560 rank and file, would be as jealousy of a large standing Army, and follows:—The regiments of Militia would should those regiments be maintained at be invited to raise in the Militia Reanything like their full complement, the serve a number of men which, on the present or some future Government might whole, including the 2,700 now raised, think it expedient to inquire whether would amount to 15,000, and that would such a force was one which, together enable the cadres of battalions of the with the Militia and Volunteers, the Line to be increased, in case of war, from country required for its defence, or whe- 560 to 800 men. ther its maintenance was consistent with the scale of expenditure which ought to be incurred. When he heard the noble NORFOLK ISLAND BISHOPRIC BILL [H.L.] Lord speak of the battalions in this A Bill to amend so much of the Act of the country being kept at a low strength he session of the sixth and seventh years of the felt it would be an impolitic course to reign of Her present Majesty, chapter thirty-five, pursue to have merely the cadres of as provides that Norfolk Island is to be part of several battalions as proposed, and he Earl GRANVILLE ; read 14. (No. 73.)

the Diocese of Tasmania- Was presented by The should have thought that it would be more acceptable to the country to have a smaller number of regiments kept in a

House adjourned at half past Eight state of efficiency not to be surpassed.

o'clock, to Monday next,

Eleven o'clock. That, in his opinion, would be a much wiser course to adopt than to have a number of semi-regiments. The noble Lord had also drawn a comparison between our Army and the Armies of the

a

THAMES EMBANKMENT (SOUTH SIDE). HOUSE OF COMMONS,

QUESTION.
Friday, 23rd April, 1869.

MR. GUEST said, he would beg to ask the hon. Member for Bath, Whe

ther it is true that the Dock at Ferry MINUTES.] - PUBLIC Bills — Resolution in

Committee Church Temporalities (Ireland) Street, Lambeth, has not been made by Commissioners (Advances].

the Metropolitan Board of Works, alResolutions reported-Ordered --First Reading, though ordered by the Act 26 & 27 Vic. Courts of Justice (Salaries and Funds] * [96].

c. 75; and, if so, the reasons for its not First Reading – (£17,100,000) Consolidated

having been constructed ; and, whether Fund * ; Customs and Inland Revenue Duties

three docks have been constructed on the [95]. Second Reading, Naval Stores * [88].

Thames Embankment (South Side) for Conimittee, Irish Church [27]_R.P.

private firms; and, if so, whether they Considered as amended – Newspapers, &c.* [66]. have been made at the expense of the Third Reading-Militia [82], and passed.

ratepayers ?

MR. TITE said, in reply, that the

Act which authorized the construction of NEWSPAPERS AND THE BRITISH MUSEUM.-QUESTION.

the Southern Embankment on the Thames was passed in 1863.

It exMR. A. BASS said, he wished to ask tended the Embankment from Westthe Secretary to the Treasury, Whe- minster Bridge, opposite the Houses of ther a copy of each edition of every Parliament, to a point somewhat beyond newspaper published in the United Lambeth. When it approached LamKingdom is purchased by the Inland beth it interfered with some docks and Revenue Department for the use of the wharves belonging to private individuBritish Museum; and, if so, whether als, and also with a ublic draw-dock he can state the annual sum expended belonging to Lambeth. When they for the purchase, and the cost of carriage, were purchasing the property the parish receiving, assorting, and forwarding the of Lambeth, through their Vestry, apnewspapers to the British Museum, and plied to the Metropolitan Board to induce also the use made of such newspapers them to abandon the re-construction of by the authorities of that Institution ?

the dock, and construct a pier for the MR. AYRTON said, in reply, that landing of steamboat passengers instead, the Inland Revenue Department had not and after much negotiation the Metrobeen in the habit of making purchases politan Board of Works arranged with of newspapers for the British Museum; the Vestry, and these very important imbut, under an Act passed some years ago provements were agreed to. They became to enable the Inland Revenue Depart- law by a Bill which passed on the 13th ment to collect the revenue on news of July last year. That Act repealed the papers when they were taxed, newspaper clause to which the hon. Gentleman has proprietors were required to transmit referred, and authorized instead the arcopies to that Department, and the De- rangement of which he complained. The partment, after they had kept them a trade of two, not three, important potcertain time, sent them to the British teries was carried on near that point, and Museum. They cost the British Museum particular clauses were introduced for nothing, and they were preserved there their protection. The Board had enin order that the public might refer to deavoured to arrange in every possible them whenever they desired. There

way for their accommodation, and the was a very large collection of newspapers gentlemen principally concerned were in the British Museum, and it was one constructing docks for the convenience of the most valuable parts of the Library. of their trade at their own expense, not He had laid on the table a Bill for the at the expense of the Metropolitan purpose of making new arrangements, Board. by which those publications would be sent direct to the British Museum at

SEA FISHING BOATS.-QUESTION. stated periods; so that the collection would be preserved and maintained as SIR HERBERT CROFT said, he it had been hitherto.

wished to ask the President of the Board of Trade, Whether the words “sea

fishing boat” in the Sea Fishery Act, appears, on the whole, satisfactorily set31 and 32 Vic. c. 45, are intended to tled. When the hon. Gentleman himapply to yachts which may be occasion- self was at the Admiralty, the Admiralty ally used in fishing ?

concurred in the arrangement which MR. BRIGHT: Sir, the Board of now exists; and if a Committee were Trade is not in a condition to place an appointed it would be to disturb what authoritative construction upon the words all the maritime nations of the earth, in of an Act of Parliament; but I may tell conjunction with this country, have the hon. Baronet that it is not their agreed to admit as settled ; and, thereopinion that these pleasure vessels were fore, it is not the intention of the Board intended to be included, and I suppose of Trade to recommend, nor would they I may say the same with regard to those be willing to consent to, the appointsmall boats he has introduced into the ment of a Committee on this subject. Question. At this moment it is under With regard to the decisions of courts consideration whether something shall of law, I presume the courts of law not be done to exclude them. There are will be obliged to give their decisions in some other small points connected with accordance with the Act of Parliament the same subject and similar small or the Order in Council, which in this classes of vessels; and by-and-by it is matter has, I believe, the same effect as intended to except them by an Order in an Act of Parliament. From all the Council or Act of Parliament. I cannot advice I am able to act upon, I think it give any answer more definite than that, would be very disadvantageous to apbut it will be sufficient to relieve the point a Committee, and disturb in this anxieties of those who have been put to country by inquiry any question which inconvenience by that clause of the Act all maritime nations at least believe to to which the hon. Baronet has referred. be satisfactorily settled.

PARLIAMENT-DISABILITY OF THE RULE OF THE ROAD AT SEA.

EPISCOPAL CLERGY.-QUESTION. QUESTION.

LORD HENRY THYNNE said, he SIR JOHN HAY said, he wished to would beg to ask the First Lord of the ask the President of the Board of Trade, Treasury, Whether he will, in case of When the remainder of the Correspond- the passing of the Irish Church Bill, ence on the subject of the Rule of the provide that the Episcopal Clergy shall Road at Sea will be laid upon the Table; be placed on an equality with their Disand whether he will agree to a Motion senting brethren, by removing the disfor the appointment of a Select Commit- ability to sit in this House now imposed tee of the House to inquire into the upon

them ? causes of the loss of life and property at MR. GLADSTONE: Sir, I think that sea by collisions, and as to the possi- the noble Lord has put this Question to bility of a remedy by some modification me under some misapprehension as to of the existing Rules of the Road, so as the actual state of the law. His questo bring them into harmony with the tion appears to rest upon the supposition custom of the sea and the decisions of that by the law of this country the the Courts of Law ?

clergy of established Churches are proMR. BRIGHT: Sir, I am not aware hibited, or precluded, or disqualified, that there is any Correspondence which from sitting in this House, and that the it would be advantageous to lay before clergy of non-established Churches are Parliament. There is a quantity of not. That, I apprehend, is an erroneous matter, consisting very largely of arti- supposition. The fact I take to be this cles from newspapers, of a controversial —that it has been ruled and decided and argumentative character, which it that no clergyman in Episcopal Orders would be expensive to publish, and can sit in this House; but that is quite would be productive of no adequate irrespective of the fact, whether he is benefit. But if the hon. Baronet would established non-established. No like to see them, he can do so by apply- clergyman of the Episcopal communion ing to the Board of Trade. With re- in Scotland can have a seat in this gard to a Committee, I think the House House, although no person is more enwill see that to appoint a Committee titled to the character of a non-estabwould be to disturb a question which lished than he is, for there were cures in

or

a

Scotland—not now, but some time ago— locality have been sold in the Metroin which the regular income was so low as politan Market and sent into the country £2 a year. In the same way the Roman before the disease was discovered ? Catholic priest is disabled from sitting Mr. W. E. FORSTER, in reply, said, in this House ; but I believe I am cor- with respect to the two cargoes of inrect in saying that it has never been fected sheep which had recently arrived determined that the Presbyterian clergy- at Harwich and London, he found he men of the Established Church of Scot- was mistaken in supposing that one land cannot sit in the House. I do not came from Antwerp and the other from give a definite opinion. This may be a Rotterdam. The two lots of infected fair subject for consideration, and I do sheep formed but a small portion of the not say that the disestablishment of the two cargoes, and they both came from Church may not afford a proper oppor- the same owner on the Continent, who tunity for raising the question; but it is had divided them into different cargoes. no part of the question of disestablish- His noble Friend was well aware that ment and disendowment; and moreover, the present state of the law gave no if it be raised, it cannot possibly be power for compelling the owners of limited in its operation to the clergy of steamers that conveyed infected animals the Church of Ireland.

to disinfect those steamers.

It was a Afterwards

difficulty that had been felt by the Privy Mr. GLADSTONE said: Upon fur- Council, and which it was intended to ther consideration, I wish to say that I remove by the Bill he had introduced. am doubtful whether I was correct in

In the present case he was happy to saying that it had not been ruled that a

state that arrangements for the complete Presbyterian clergyman of the Estab- disinfection of the vessels had been

made with the owners.

As to the cargo lished Church in Scotland could not sit in the House of Commons. I think it which arrived last Saturday he had made possible, and may have been ruled. Al inquiries, and had every reason to bethat I stated with regard to the clergy in it

. He was certain that there were

lieve that there were no infected sheep in Episcopal Orders was, I think, quite no sheep that came from the owner who correct.

had sent the two former batches of in

fected sheep PARLIAMENT-HOUSE OF COMMONS

ARRANGEMENTS.-QUESTION. THE O'FARRELL PAPERS.-QUESTION. MR. HEADLAM said, he wished to MR. NEWDEGATE said, he would ask the First Commissioner of Works, beg to ask the right hon. Gentleman the Whether the plans recently laid by him First Lord of the Treasury, When the before the House for the alteration of Papers relating to O'Farrell

, which the the dining rooms will be engraved and House had ordered, will be in the hands presented to every Member of the House, of Members ? or in what way they will be exhibited or MR. GLADSTONE: I rise, Sir, to made known to Members ?

answer this Question, of which the hon. MR. LAYARD said, in reply, that the Gentleman courteously gave me notice, plans would be rather expensive, but although my right hon. Friend (Mr. ħe had given directions to have them Monsell) the representative of the Coprinted, as all the others had been pre-lonial Department would perhaps have sented to Members.

answered it with greater advantage. The substance of my answer will be to

refer the hon. Gentleman to a Notice CATTLE PLAGUE-INFECTED SHEEP.

which has been given, and which I be

lieve is already upon the Paper, in the LORD ROBERT MONTAGU said, he name of my right hon. Friend, for the wished to ask the Vice President of the purpose of rescinding the Motion to Committee of Council, Whether he can which the hon. Member for North give the House any further information Warwickshire refers. The state of the concerning the two cargoes of sheep from case is this—that some time ago the Antwerp and Rotterdam which he had hon. Member expressed to my right hon. ordered to be slaughtered; and, espe- Friend his desire that these Papers cially whether any sheep from the same should be produced, and the close of the

QUESTION.

communications upon the subject was of Commons to test this question by the that my right hon. Friend declined on Motion which my right hon. Friend will the part of the Government to produce submit for the rescinding of the Order the Papers; but understanding that they which, on a less perfect knowledge of were Papers that had already been the circumstances, we assented to. printed by order of a branch of the MR. NEWDEGATE: As the stateColonial Legislature, he stated that, if ment of the right hon. Gentleman may the hon. Member chose to move for seem to impugn my judgment, I wish to them, the Government would make no mention that I communicated fully with opposition. Since that period we have the Under Secretary of State for the examined into these Papers, and have Colonies before I asked him whether the become aware of their character in two Government would grant these Papers, respects, which I will briefly state to the and he replied – " With the greatest House. I do not speak of the whole of pleasure," and I then moved for them. the Papers, but of the material Paper I wish to ask when the Motion for rewhich the hon. Member has specially in scinding the Order will come on, and I view in his Motion. That Paper con- may state that I am not prepared when sists of a conversation between the con- it does come on to shrink from any revict O'Farrell and certain persons in sponsibility which I have incurred. authority in the Colony, which conver- MR. GLADSTONE: It is difficult to sation was taken down by a shorthand state the precise day, but I will take writer—the presence of the shorthand- care that the hon. Gentleman has ample writer being unknown to the convict. I notice. own I think it is not our practice to obtain confessions or declarations of any

PARLIAMENT-BUSINESS OF THE kind from convicts, and report them

HOUSE. under such circumstances, and I very MR. GLADSTONE said, he wished to greatly doubt the policy of unnecessarily make an appeal to the hon. Member for associating ourselves with that proceed- East Suffolk (Mr. Corrance) to postpone ing. Of course, it is not for me to ex- the Motion he had upon the Paper on press any opinion upon the proceeding the existing state of Pauperism and itself. There may have been perfectly Vagrancy in England, in order to aljustifiable cause for it; into that I do low the House to go into Committee not enter, but I think there is no neces- on the Irish Church Bill. At the comsity whatever for our linking ourselves mencement of the proceedings in Commitwith it. Over and above that, undoubt- tee, as well as upon the second reading edly, I find that the Papers were printed of the Bill, he had stated to the House, by order of a branch of the Colonial in accordance, as he believed, with Legislature; but it appears that the the suggestion of the right hon. Gentleprinting of these Papers was a matter of man the Member for Buckinghamshire very serious contention; it was very |(Mr. Disraeli), that it was the desire of much contested there ; and we do not the Government to induce the House to feel, therefore, that that authority on proceed from day to day with the Comthe ground of mere fact is wholly conclu- mittee on the Irish Church, whenever it sive. But when we look at the nature was felt that no matter of urgency stood of the Papers, I do not hesitate to say in the way. It was of great importance that in these Papers is contained matter that a Bill of that nature should reach which it is contrary to our public duty the House of Lords, if it was to go there, as Ministers to be parties to laying be- in very good time in the Session, and, fore this House. That is a very decided moreover, as many of the provisions were statement. Our mind is quite made up necessarily of so complicated a nature, upon it, and I fully believe that the they would be discussed at a great disHouse of Commons will place so much advantage if there was always to be an of discretion in the responsible attention interval of three or four days between we have given to the subject, that they the several discussions. He had underwill not press us under these circum- stood last night, indirectly, that the hon. stances for the production of the Papers. Gentleman the Member for East Suffolk We are convinced their publication can attached great importance to an early be attended with no public good and ad- discussion of his Motion, and he had vantage, and we mean to ask the House caused a communication to be made to

a

a