in particular. There is nothing in the one, and is having my anxious attention, power of the Government which we are with the aid of the Inspectors of Facnot doing and are not willing to do for tories. the purpose of repressing and detecting this state of crime. As an instance, I

METROPOLIS-NIGHT HOUSES. may say that the powers which have been conferred on the Lord Lieutenant

QUESTION under the Peace Preservation Act (Ire

VISCOUNT ENFIELD said, he would land) with respect to the possession of beg to ask the Secretary of State for the arms, and to the stationing in any dis- Home Department, Whether his attentrict or locality of an extra force of con- has been called to the different opinions stabulary, and charging the expense of as to the state of the Law recently er. that force upon the district or locality that pressed by the Middlesex Magistrates, ought to bear the burden, are now being and by the Police Magistrate, Mr. Knos, used to an extent never before exercised on the subject of "Night Houses in the Beyond that it would be improper, as Metropolis ;” and, if so, whether he is tending to defeat our object, to state the prepared to introduce any measure to means which the Government are em- render the Law clearer and more definite ploying for the purpose of detecting and on this point ? repressing these dangerous crimes. With MR. BRUCE: Sir, The difference of respect to the report of the last crime opinion between Sir William Bodkin on but one, it was probably not of an agra- the one hand, and Mr. Knox and the rian character; and as to the last, I have police magistrates generally on the seen the telegram in the public papers, other, is not so much on the question of but am unable to give the House any law as on the amount of evidence necesinformation as to its character.

sary to justify a conviction under the ReMR. GRAVES said, that, inasmuch as freshment Houses Act. That Act imposes the reply of the right hon. Gentleman certain penalties on persons licensed to the Secretary for Ireland to the noble keep refreshment houses who shall Lord (Lord John Manners) was not con- “knowingly suffer prostitutes, thieves, sonant with the gravity of the occasion, or drunken and disorderly persons to he would, on the Motion for going into assemble at or continue on their preCommittee of Supply on the following mises.” The Court of Queen's Bench evening, call the attention of the House held that the mere assemblage of prosto recent events in Ireland.

titutes for no immoral purpose was not

within the Act. They might be there FACTORY ACTS-HOURS OF LABOUR.

for the purpose of obtaining refresh

ment. Mr. Justice Blackburn, in the QUESTION

ruling judgment on this subject saidMR. MUNTZ said, he would beg to “I do not think that the mere fact that the ask the Secretary of State for the Home persons happen to be prostitutes or thieves would Department, If his attention has been cause their meeting to be an assembling of prosticalled to the different regulations of the tutes and thieves within the Act. It may be

well that a number of thieves and prostitutes Inspectors of Factories, whereby in one town manufactories may work till 8 p.m., thieves or prostitutes ; but as soon as it is showa

may meet, and yet they may not assemble as and in another only until 6 p.m.; and, that they meet in the capacity of prostitutes or if it could not be arranged that the rules thieres, to the knowledge of the keeper of the should be the same in both districts ? house, then the case comes within the provisions Mr. BRUCE: Sir, it is doubtless very or some act of thieving should be shown to hare

of the Act. It is not necessary that prostitution desirable, that in the same trades, there been actually planned on the premises; but if the should be, as a general rule, uniformity assembling is a sort of thieves' club, or the house in the hours of labour. But the habits used as a house of call for prostitutes to nieet of the workpeople differ in different men, that is sufficient to bring the keeper of the

house under the provisions of the Act.” parts of the country, and absolute uniformity might sometimes be a positive In this opinion Mr. Knox and Sir inconvenience. There will in a few days William Bodkin agree; they differ as to be a Return on the table of the House, the amount and nature of the eridence showing what modifications of the hours necessary to prove the immoral purpose of labour have been allowed in different of the assemblage. Mr. Knox thinks trades. The subject is a very difficult that the presence of several known

prostitutes in a night-house in the Hay- | in 1851, and an Act was passed under market for half-an-hour continuously in which the State undertook its liabilithe company of men, between midnight ties, taking over about £200,000 of and one o'clock, was sufficient evidence assets. These liabilities, up to the prethat they were there for the purposes of sent day, have amounted to £997,000, their miserable calling. Sir William and are now about £48,000 a year; so Bodkin thinks these circumstances not that merchant seamen will have reinconsistent with their being there for ceived from the Exchequer, under the purposes of refreshment, and demands Acts of 1834 and 1851, above £1,000,000 more positive proof of immoral inten- beyond their contributions to the Mertion. I may add that I have received chant Seamen’s Fund. a letter from Mr. Serjeant Payne, infoming me that two appeals on the

THE O'FARRELL PAPERS. - QUESTION. same point will be heard to-morrow at the Sessions House, Westminster. MR. NEWDEGATE said, he would It would be well to await the result of beg to ask the First Lord of the Treathose decisions. Should they coincide sury, Whether the Government will lay with that of Sir William Bodkin, it will upon the Table of the House the Report be necessary to consider whether it is of, and the Evidence taken before, the possible so to amend the Act as to faci- Committee appointed by the Legislative litate uniformity of decision, and give Assembly of Australia, to consider the effect to its obvious intention.

Papers with respect to O'Farrell, produced on the Motion of Mr. Parkes?

MR. GLADSTONE said, in reply, that NAVY-THE GREENWICH SIXPENCE,

he had learned from inquiry that the QUESTION.

Report of the Committee appointed by COLONEL SYKES said, he would beg the Legislative Assembly of New South to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty, Wales to consider the Papers with reWhether the compulsory deductions of spect to O'Farrell occupied 150 closelysixpence per month from the wages of printed pages, and the Government were Merchant Seamen before 1834 for of opinion that there was not sufficient Greenwich Hospital, were transferred to reason to justify them in putting the the credit of the Merchant Seamen's country to the expense of re-printing it. Fund on its establishment after 1834; But, a copy of the Report would be and, if not so transferred, to state how placed in the library, where the hon. the accumulated deductions for years Member might consult it. from the Merchant Seamen have been disposed of; and whether for their benefit, and to what extent ?

CHURCH RATES-PRIVATE ACTS. MR. CHILDERS: In reply, Sir, to

QUESTION the Question of my hon. and gallant COLONEL FRENCH said, in the abFriend, I have to say that no accumula- sence of his hon. Friend (Mr. White), tion of deductions from merchant sea- he would beg to ask the Secretary men's wages existed before 1834. Those of State for the Home Department, deductions were annually paid into the Whether, under the fifth section of the income of Greenwich Hospital and ex- Act for the Abolition of Compulsory pended on the maintenance of in-pension- Church Rates passed last Session, Church ers and the schools. With reference to Rates are not or may not be made, the Merchant Seamen's Fund, I must cor- levied, and enforced, although under rect a misapprehension of my hon. and another name or form, by virtue of prigallant Friend. It was established in vate or local Acts; and, if so, whether 1731, not 1834; and in the latter year Her Majesty's Government is prepared the sixpence a month formerly paid to to bring in a Bill to relieve parishes or Greenwich was, instead, paid to the places from the operation of such Acts, fund; and by the same Act pensions to and so give to such parishes or places widows and children of merchant sea- the full benefit and advantage of the Act

were granted out of the fund. of last Session ? But it does not appear to have been cal- MR. BRUCE: I am not aware, Sir, of culated whether the fund would bear any cases in which church rates them; and, in fact, it became insolvent levied in the manner indicated by the

men

are

Question of the hon. and gallant Gen- that no such Despatch had been sent. tleman. By the Act for the Abolition of The China Papers would soon be on the Compulsory Church Rates, no church table, and from the first Despatch his rate can be levied under the authority hon. Friend would see how clearly Lord of any general or local Act, unless either Clarendon laid down the policy of this money is due on the security of the rate, country towards China. or the rate is clearly the equivalent of tithes or other property, or of some valu- PARLIAMENT—THE IRISH CHURCH BILL able consideration which has been sur- - MORNING SITTING.-NOTICE. rendered. Unless my hon. and gallant

MR. GLADSTONE said, he would Friend can show that church rates are still levied under circumstances differ- give notice that, with a view to making ent from these, Her Majesty's Govern, Church Bill, and at the same time, to

in Committee on the Irish

progress ment is not prepared to recommend

secure ample time for deliberation, he legislation.

would propose a Morning Sitting on

Tuesday. The Sitting would, with the IRELAND-PRISONS.—QUESTION. permission of the House, last from two MR. VANCE said, he wished to ask to seven. the Chief Secretary for Ireland, If it is the intention of Government to intro

IRISH CHURCII BILL- [Bill 27.] duce a Prisons Bill for Ireland; and if (Mr. Dodson, Mr. Gladstone, Mr. John Bright, they have it in contemplation to place

Mr. Chichester Fortescue, Mr. Attorney the County and Convict Prisons under

General for Ireland.) the same superintendence ?

COMMITTEE. [Progress 26th April.] MR. CHICHESTER FORTESCUE,

Bill considered in Committee. in reply, said, he hoped a Bill relating

(In the Committee.) to prisons in Ireland would be introduced this Session, either in this or the

Clause 27 (Enactments with respect other House. The important subject of to ecclesiastical residences). the latter part of the hon. Member's Amendment again proposed, in page Question was under consideration, but 12, line 14, to leave out from the word the Government had not yet decided “therein " to the end of the Clause.

(Mr. Disraeli.)

MR. GLADSTONE, in order to obviate RELATIONS WITH CHINA.—QUESTION. any misunderstanding, wished to explain

what he apprehended to be the precise MR. DILKE said, he wished to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Committee was to vote. The right hon.

effect of the Motion upon which the Affairs, Whether his attention has been called to a Telegram, dated Shanghae, omit all the words from the fourteenth

Gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) had moved to March 31st, and published in the London line of the clause to the end, the practical newspapers

of yesterday, in which it is effect of which would be that no parstated that, in a Despatch from Sir

ment was to be taken in respect of the Rutherford Alcock to the British Consul

glebe houses in Ireland. Should, how. at Shanghai, the former says that,

ever, “The Government at Pekin shows no desire for tion—as the Government trusted they

the Committee negative the Moprogress, according to Western ideas and desires ; but, on the contrary, will not yield to the intro- would—the effect of that decision would duction of any such projects, except under pres- be to determine that some payment sure and coercion ;".

should be taken, but would not fix the And, whether such a Despatch from Her precise amount of that payment. The Majesty's Minister in China to a Consul question before the Committee did not, has been published by the authority of therefore, directly raise the question of the Foreign Office ?

the amount of the sum which should be MR. OTWAY said, in reply, that the taken in respect of glebe houses; but Government had only seen the statement he thought it would be for the convenin the papers, and had not authorized its ience of the Committee that he should publication. From another portion of the state the view he took of the second and telegram, to which his hon. Friend had main part of the clause. In the second not referred, he thought it very likely part of the clause two kinds of payment

upon it.

were named, corresponding with two many cases, if not hundreds, of cases, classes of glebe houses. In the case of they afforded both to the eye and to the the first class of glebe houses there was mind of the public a contrast between the no building charge, and, with respect position of the clergyman of the small to that class, the clause stipulated that minority, who was comfortably—and, in their sites should be sold to the repre- many instances handsomely-lodged, and sentative body of the Church at the that of the position of the clergyman of the moderate valuation of twelve years' pur large majority, who, in very many inchase. In his opening statement, how- stances, was wholly without an official ever, he had mentioned ten years' pur- residence——if he possessed one he owed chase as the amount fixed upon by the it entirely to private sources—and who Government; and, consequently, he had was, unfortunately, in many cases neither give notice of an Amendment to reduce handsomely nor comfortably lodged. In the terms of purchase to that amount. dealing with that matter they had not, The question was not a large one as far on the one hand, wished to put out of as money was concerned.

The more view the low marketable value of those considerable question arose where there houses, nor allowed themselves to be was a building charge, and where there guided by the high figure of the cost inwas such charge he asked for the re-pay- curred in respect to them; on the other ment of it. In the first instance, it would hand, they had felt that fidelity to their be necessary to liquidate the charge. engagements, with respect to the general He did not propose to take a larger sum principle of the Bill, did require that than a moderate valuation, and proposed they should, at all events in respect to that the maximum should be ten years, the land, which was always marketable, at the Poor Law valuation of the house fix some condition in the shape of a together with the site. Looking to what price for the possession of the glebe had been said the other night, he wished houses; and with respect to the large to submit to the Committee, with great building charges, which must be paid respect for the opinions of those who for by the general fund, they should thought differently from the Govern- endeavour, within the limits of equity, ment, that the plan he now laid before to obtain some compensation for the them was founded upon principles of payment. Under these circumstances, equity as regarded the Church about to the Government—he hoped, without imbe disestablished. When he had spoken parting any exaggeration or passion last year of giving the parsonages to the into their view of the case- had deemed Church he had not been aware of the it to be their duty to adhere to the large sums which the State had been clause as it stood with the Amendments called upon to pay in respect of them, they proposed, and of course it would or of the sums which the State would be for the Committee to decide whether be called upon to pay before it could that view was right or wrong. obtain posseesion of them. The effect LORD JOHN MANNERS understood of the Bill would be to recoup to the the right hon. Gentleman to decline to State, not the whole, but a considerable accede to the appeal of the hon. Member portion of those sums. The Government for Rochester (Mr. P. Wykeham-Martin) had been able to trace about £1,200,000 to hand over the glebe houses without as having been expended for these pur- exacting any payment for them. Last poses. Undoubtedly, the value of the year the right hon. Gentleman had given glebe houses was greater to the Church the country to understand that he was than to any other body. The Poor Law prepared to hand over those houses valuation of them amounted to about without charge to the Church Body; but £18,000 or £19,000 per annum, and he now stated that he was not then probably their annual letting value aware of certain circumstances with rewould not exceed £24,000 or £25,000.gard to them which had since come to With regard to the proposition that the his knowledge, and which had led him, glebe houses should be made over with- upon reflection, to recommend the Comout any payment whatever, it should mittee to adopt the proposal he now be remembered that they had been a made. So far, he could follow the meanvery notable sign and token in the pub- ing of the right hon. Gentleman ; but, lic eye throughout Ireland of the position when he came to assign a reason of the Established Church, and that in that recommendation, he must confess VOL. CXCV. (THIRD SERIES.]

30 [Committee-Clause 27.

he could not follow his meaning. The glebe houses. But was it not true that right hon. Gentleman talked about the a sum of £37,000 or £38,000 had been necessity of giving back to the State voted by Parliament for the erection and the money which it had expended. But repairs of the College of Maynooth? If what money had the State expended, be- it was just to remit the payment of this yond the £150,000, to which the right latter sum, what became of the arguhon. Gentleman made reference for the ment against handing over those glebe first time the other night? The right houses founded on the Parliamentary hon. Gentleman talked about having Vote ? He ventured to say that the traced an expenditure of £1,200,000 by right hon. Gentleman had made out no the State upon these houses, and about case for his present proposition, which being anxious to get back a portion of was a signal departure from the princithat sum.

It appeared to him that the ple which he himself laid down last year £1,200,000 was not expended on behalf when introducing this question of the of the State, but by individual clergy- Irish Church. The answer of the right men and laymen interested in the Church hon. Gentleman to the significant appeal of Ireland. Did the right hon. Gentle- made to him on Monday night by the hon. man come forward and claim the whole Member for Rochester ought to be suffiof the sums which had been expended cient to show those simple-minded persons by these persons during the last two or who had pledged themselves to support three centuries on the glebe houses in the right hon. Gentleman that they had Ireland ? Such a claim was the most handed themselves over bound hand and extraordinary rhetorical artifice he had foot to the Government. They now found ever heard. The right hon. Gentleman, that this was a measure without a single when asked to do by the glebe houses provision of a compensatory character. as he was prepared to do by Maynooth, MR. BAGWELL said, he did not had refused to do so on the singular know that, during the many years he ground that, in his opinion, fifteen years had sat in the House of Commons, he ago, Parliament had acted very unjustly had ever risen to speak under greater towards Maynooth in refusing to continue difficulty than that which he experienced the annual Vote for the repairs of the on this occasion. He believed that if College. But the right hon. Gentleman the Government had acceded to the sug. was the last man in the House who could gestion of his hon. Friend the Member impeach the wisdom of Parliament in for Rochester (Mr. P. Wykeham-Martin) refusing that grant, because he had been they would thereby have sent a message Chancellor of the Exchequer, and a of peace and conciliation to the 700,000 Member of the Government during the members of the Protestant Episcopal greater part of that period, without hav Church in Ireland. Who had made that ing, on any single occasion, proposed to body of 700,000 Protestants? The Eng. Parliament—as it would have been his lish Government, at a time when it had duty, under such circumstances, to have not statesmanship enough to rule Iredone over and over again—a renewal of land as an Irish country, but tried to that grant. Then the right hon. Gen- force upon the Irish people English relitleman told them that if those glebe gion and English law. He was one of houses were handed over to the Protest- the 700,000 to whom he had alluded; ant Episcopal Body free of charge, as he but ever since he had been first able to himself last year proposed to hand them form an opinion on political matters he over, they would remain as a symbol of had been of opinion that the principle that Protestant ascendancy which it was of religious equalitywas essential for Irethe object of this Bill to put an end to. land. He believed that he had held that If that would be the effect of handing opinion before any man on the Treasury over these modest glebe houses, what Bench, except the right hon. Gentleman would be the effect of the gift of the the President of the Board of Trade. cathedrals and churches ? Again, the But was a Church going out on the right hon. Gentleman had said, -and world without anything in a position of this was the only argument—if argument religious equality? Was such a Church it could be called-in favour of the pro- in the position of Churches which had position of the Government—that, at been established for hundreds of years? some remote period, a sum of £152,000 You might as well say to a young man had been voted by Parliament for those going out to Australia—"Go out and