on

either House of Parliament after 1st HOUSE OF LORDS, February 1869. Now, he desired to

point out that the bare repeal of this Tuesday, 13th April, 1869. section might be attended with incon

venience. Several such meetings had MINUTES.] — SELECT COMMITTEE Law of been held, and in some cases had refused

Hypotheo in Scotland, The Duke of Richmond to approve Bills promoted by Boards of added.

Directors ; but this Bill would allow such PUBLIC BILLS First Reading — Civil Service Bills to proceed notwithstanding such

Pensions (53); Sea Birds Preservation* (54); dissent, although the shareholders, re-
Colonial Prisoners Removal * (55); Merchant
Shipping (Colonial)* (56).

lying on the clause, had lost the opporSecond Reading-Naval Stores (33).

tunity of petitioning against them. He Committee-Report—Railway Companies' Meet- suggested that something should be done

ings (44). Withdrawn-Colonial Offenders Removal * (46).

in framing the Standing Orders that would protect the rights of shareholders

in this respect. IRELAND-RELEASED FENIAN PRISONERS.-QUESTION.

THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY said,

he would confer with the noble Lord the NOTICE WITHDRAWN.

Chairman of Committees on the subject. THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE LORD REDESDALE said, that he said, he had placed on the Paper a No-should have to propose a Sessional Order tice of the following Question :- " To the subject, of which notice would be ask Her Majesty's Government, Whe- given, which would secure to the sharether the statement made by the Chief holders their power of appearing before Secretary for Ireland on Thursday re- a Wharncliffe meeting when a Bill passed specting seditious language used in pub- from that to the other House. lic by some of the lately released Fenian prisoners is intended to convey that any

House in Committee accordingly; Bill special immunity for such a crime is reported without Amendment; and to be granted by the Government to that class read 3* on Thursday next. of prisoners ?” but he now thought the subject was of too grave a character to

NAVAL STORES BILL-(No. 33.) be brought before their Lordships as a (The Earl of Camperdown.) mere Question, he wished to withdraw it. Another reason for doing so was that Order of the Day for the Second Readhe had been informed that the speech of ing read. the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Se.

THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN, in cretary for Ireland was not accurately reported in the newspapers. It was to moving that the Bill bo now read the the particular words reported, and not second time, said, that the title of the

Bill to the general purport of the answer of object for which the Bill was originally

was hardly calculated to convey the the Chief Secretary given as a whole, framed. A series of Acts for the prothat he took exception.

tection of naval stores had been passed,

of which the earliest was in the reign RAILWAY COMPANIES MEETINGS BILL.

of William III., and the latest in 1857. (The Lord Privy Seal.)

This Bill seemed to contradict the prin(No. 44.) COMMITTEE.

ciple affirmed by those Acts, which proOrder of the Day for the House to be vided, first a series of marks appropriput into a Committee on the said Bill ated to the Admiralty, which no other read.

trader is allowed to use, and then enacted THE MARQUESS SALISBURY that no private person should keep, possaid, that this Bill repealed the 35th sess, or sell any property on which these section of the “Regulation of Railways marks are imprinted. The consequence Act, 1868” (which relates to meetings of this has been that not only had priof incorporated railway companies vate persons been unable to sell stores commonly called Wharncliffe Meetings on which these marks were imprinted, —and the approval of such meetings of but the Admiralty had found themselves bills and certificates for conferring addi- precluded from disposing of stores which tional powers on those companies) so far were obsolete or partially worn out. In as relates to any Bill introduced into order to remedy that inconvenience he

SECOND READING,

OF

OF

had introduced this Bill, which would quite willing to move the Amendments repeal all the previous Acts on the sub- in Committee, and then to have the Bill ject, and would then re-enact all the re-printed with the Amendments. clauses which it was thought desirable Motion agreed to; Bill read 22 accordto retain-omitting, of course, all those ingly, and committed to a Committee of provisions which prevented the Admi- the Whole House on Thursday next. ralty from disposing of their old stores, when they found it for the public interest COLONIAL PRISONERS REMOVAL BILL (H.L.] that they should do so. As it stood, the

(No. 55.) A Bill for authorizing the reBill also omitted the clauses retaining moval of Offenders from one Colony to another for the Admiralty the use of certain spe- for the purposes of Punishment : And also, cial marks; but on the Report he should propose to insert clauses which would MERCHANT SHIPPING (COLONIAL), 1869, still give the Admiralty the exclusive use

BILL (H.L.] (No. 56.) A Bill for amendof the “broad arrow as their mark.

ing the Law relating to the Coasting Trade and

Merchant Shipping in British Possessions : The Bill was founded upon the recom- Were severally presented by The Earl GRANVILLE ; mendations of the Committee of the read 1°. House of Commons on Dockyard Ma- House adjourned at half past Five o'clock, nagement, which sat last year, and was

to Thursday nest, half-past presided over by Mr. Seely.

Four o'clock. Mored, " That the Bill be now read 22."-(The Earl of Camperdown.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS, THE EARL OF HARDWICKE thought it a great bungle to bring in a Bill and

Tuesday, 13th April, 1869. then amend it on the Report. The better course would be to withdraw this MINUTES.] — New MEMBER SWORN John Bill and bring in another.

Samuel Wanley Sawbridge Erle Drax, esq., for THE EARL CAMPERDOWN

Wareham.

SUPPLY considered in Committee-Resolutions thought that, in order to save time, it would be desirable to take the course he | WAYS AND Means— Resolutions [April 12] re.

[April 12] reported— ARMY ESTIMATES. had proposed. The Government desired

ported. to pass the Bill as speedily as possible, Public Bills Ordered-Endowed Hospitals, and to withdraw this Bill and introduce &c. (Scotland); Poor Law (Scotland) Act another would cause delay. The Admi- Ordered – First Reading – County Coroners

(1845) Amendment. ralty wished to sell several old ships,

[75); Metropolitan Commons Act (1866) and they were anxious to pass this Amendment* [77]; Oyster and Mussel FisheBill first. By the present system the ries Supplemental * [76]; Adulteration of Food Admiralty had frequently to sell ships Second Reading-Libel (17].

or Driok Act (1860) Amendment * [78]. for very much less than they had afterwards to pay for the old copper.

METROPOLITAN BOARD OF WORKS, This was the case of one ship's hull that sold for £300, when the copper

QUESTION. had to be re-purchased for £1,665; and MR. A. JOHNSTON said, he wished with regard to the Medway, she sold for to ask the Under Secretary of State for £2,180, and her copper had to be re- the Home Department, Why the Report purchased by the Admiralty for £4,210. of the Metropolitan Board of Works, Out of twenty-seven ships sold the same dated March 1868, was not presented to thing had occurred in every instance; Parliament in July, or at latest in Noand therefore it seemed to him that the vember, in accordance with the Act 18 sooner a law which produces such re- and 19 Vic., s. 200 and 201 ; and, whesults is repealed the better it would be ther arrangements could not be made in for the public interest.

future for such Report being presented THE DUKE OF SOMERSET, while within somewhat less than twelve months admitting the inconvenience of the pre- after the date thereof? sent law, thought it would be more MR. KNATCHBULL-HUGESSEN convenient if the Amendments were pro- said, in reply, that the Report contained posed in Committee, instead of at a late a very large amount of matter, and the stage.

Board of Works found it impossible to THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN was complete it within the time enacted by VOL. CXCV. (THIRD SERIES.]

Z

the Act of Parliament. The delay last cause the extension of the present disyear was due to the serious illness of the turbances; and, if so, for what time and chief clerk, and the Report did not come upon what conditions ? to the Home Office until December. As MR. MONSELL, in reply, stated that to the future, he could assure the hon. orders had been sent for the recall of Member that he had received from the the 18th Regiment, which was to leave Board of Works an assurance that every New Zealand in May next. When that effort would be used to ensure that the regiment left there would be no ImpeReport should be presented earlier.

rial troops in the colony. In reply to

the second part of the Question, he had CONVICTION OF THREE CHILDREN AT to state that the Governor of New ZeaSALISBURY.-QUESTION.

land could not retain the troops, as the MR. P. A. TAYLOR said, hewould beg definite and precise, and without limita

instructions given to the Governor were to ask the Secretary of State for the Home

tions or conditions. Department, Whether his attention has been called to a case in which three children-namely, two girls aged re- PARLIAMENT-CRYPT UNDER ST. STEspectively 11 and 14, and a boy aged 8,

PHEN'S CHAPEL.- QUESTION. were lately convicted, at the County Petty MR. W. EGERTON said, he wished Sessions in Salisbury, of stealing rape-to ask the First Commissioner of Works, greens to the value of 18. from a field, When the Crypt under St. Stephen's the two girls being sentenced to a Chapel will be opened for Divine Sermonth's imprisonment, in default of vice? paying a fine of 208. and costs, the boy

MR. LAYARD said, in reply, that the escaping a like punishment against the crypt under St. Stephen's Chapel had expressed opinion of the chairman, Lord been completed some time. There was Folkestone; and, whether he has thought still something to be done with the bapit right to make any representations on tistry, and he was going to ask for a the case ; and, if so, whether he will lay smail

' Vote this year to complete it. The any Correspondence on the Table of the crypt was now ready for Divine Service, House ?

but it was for the House to determine MR. BRUCE replied that he had re- whether they wished Divine Service to ceived no representations whatever with be performed there, and if so, to provide respect to this case. It was not the cus- the endowment for a clergyman. tom nor the duty of the Home Secretary to animadvert on the decisions either of Judges or magistrates, unless repre

ESTATES OF THE DEAN AND CHAPTER sentations were made to him; and if

OF LICHFIELD.-QUESTION, representations were made, and they LORD GEORGE CAVENDISH said, appeared to be worthy of attention, in- he would beg to ask the hon. Member quiries were instituted, and he endea- for North Devonshire, Whether, on the voured to form his judgment upon them. death of the late Dean of Lichfield, the In this case no representations had been estates of the Dean and Chapter, derived made, and consequently he had taken no from lands and tithes, were surrendered steps in the matter.

to the Ecclesiastical Commissioners; and,

if so, whether in due time the ComNEW ZEALAND—IMPERIAL TROOPS IN missioners will take into consideration THE COLONY.-QUESTION. the case of certain parishes in Derby

shire, where the Dean and Chapter have MR. SARTORIS said, he wished to property, and where the incomes of the ask the Under Secretary of State for parochial clergy seldom exceed £150 a the Colonies, Have orders been sent to year, and in some cases fall below £100 New Zealand recalling the 18th Re- a year? giment; and, if so, when is the Regi- MR. ACLAND said, in reply, that the ment to leave the Colony; and, can the estates had not become vested in the Governor of New Zealand, notwith- Ecclesiastical Commissioners. Under standing the order of recall, if sent, re- the Act of 1868 the Ecclesiastical Comtain the troops, should he consider their missioners were empowered to accept the removal at the time ordered likely to transfer of capitular estates, and in this

instance they were ready to provide the commended to be purchased by the commutation whenever the Dean and Treasury Commission for the concentraChapter were ready to make the pro- tion of the Public Offices, and for which posal; but without such a proposal the the proper notices were given last NoCommissioners had no right to inter-vember? vene; and when it had been made, the MR. LAYARD said, in reply, that a Commissioners would be in a position to Bill on the subject was in preparation, take into consideration the wish and and when it was presented he should be claims of the locality. He might add able to make a statement to the House, that commutation arrangements were in which he hoped would be a complete progress in nearly all the other Chap- answer to the Question of the noble ters, that the augmentations of livings Lord. had been completed in some of them, and were in progress in others.

EMPLOYMENT OF WOMEN AND CHILD

REN IN AGRICULTURE - QUESTION. METROPOLIS - ST. LUKE'S HOSPITAL. MR. AKROYD said, he would beg to QUESTION.

ask the Secretary of State for the Home COLONEL BARTTELOT said, he would Department, When the final Report of beg to ask the Secretary of State for

the Commission on the Employment of the Home Department, What steps have Children, Young Persons, and Women been taken by the Lord Chancellor, in

in Agriculture will be laid upon the

Table ? accordance with the request of the Governors of St. Luke's Hospital

, as ap- far as England and Wales were con

MR. BRUCE said, in reply, that as peared in "The Times” of February 27th, cerned the Report of the Commission with a view to inquire into its manage would be ready in the month of August; ment; and, whether the Commissioners in Lunacy have made any inquiry; and, tended to Scotland, the whole inquiry

but as the inquiry had been since exif not, whether the Government intend to order them to make such inquiry?

would not be completed till next year. MR. BRUCE, in reply, said, he had

ARMY-CHAPLAINS.-QUESTION. been informed by the Lord Chancellor that not being a Visitor of the hospital,

COLONEL STUART KNOX said, he and also on the ground that some com- would beg to ask the Secretary of State plaints with respect to the arrangement for War, Whether a reduction is about of it might be brought before him in to be made in the Chaplain's Departhis judicial capacity, he had not thought ment of the Army, and if the Reverend it proper to institute an ex parte inquiry Charles Craven has been selected to be into the matter. The Lunacy Commis- placed on half-pay, he not being the sioners had repeatedly inquired into the junior; and, if so, on what ground the management of the hospital, and had usual custom of the Service has been made certain recommendations, some of departed from ? which had been acted upon and some

MR. CARDWELL: It is true, Sir, not. They had reported that, in their that a reduction is about to be made in opinion, the situation of the hospital the chaplain's department of the Army, was not very fit for its peculiar func- and that the Rev. Charles Craven has tions. He might add that the powers been selected to be placed on half-pay, of the Commissioners and of the Home he not being the junior; but it is not acOffice over this hospital was very differ- curate to say that the usual custom of the ent, and were very much less than that service has been departed from. The which they possessed over lunatic es- usual custom of the service tablishments generally.

duty-is, in consultation with the Chap

lain General, to make such arrangeMETROPOLIS CONCENTRATION OF

ments as I think most desirable for the THE PUBLIC OFFICES.-QUESTION.

public service. LORD JOHN MANNERS said, he

ARMY-WEST KENT MILITIA. wished to ask the First Commissioner of

QUESTION. Works, If it is the intention of the Government to introduce a Bill this Session . MR. WHATMAN said, he would beg for the acquisition of the property ro- to ask the Secretary of State for War,

and my

a

Whether the West Kent Regiment of if it should then be thought expedient, Militia, which met yesterday for the the third reading of the Bill should be usual drill, has received final orders carried. whether they are to proceed to Shorn- MR. FAWCETT gave notice that he cliffe Camp or not ; and, whether the would move for such a Committee, and additional expense caused by changing would leave the House to decide what the first notice will be thrown on the offi- the terms of the reference should be. cers or not? On Friday last Orders were sent to the head-quarters for the Regi- HUDSON'S BAY COMPANY.—QUESTION. ment to march to Shorncliffe, and pre

MR. ADDERLEY said, he would beg parations were made for that

purpose, when the order was suddenly changed to ask the Under Secretary of State for

. Regiments of Militia had not the ad- the Colonies, If he will state to the House vantage of a regular military organiza- the general terms on which the Hudson's tion, in respect to mess and various Bay Company have consented to surthings, and, by the order being counter- render their government and territory? manded, much expense would be caused.

MR. MONSELL said, in answer to his MR. CARDWELL, in reply, said, he right hon. Friend, he had to inform him had the pleasure of informing the hon. that the Hudson's Bay Company had Gentleman that the original order for consented to surrender all their rights the regiment to march would be carried of territory and jurisdiction on condition into effect, and that no additional ex- of receiving £300,000 in money, about pense would be thrown upon the Officers 50,000 acres about their posts, and oneby the change that had,

in the first in- twentieth of all land that might be laid

out for settlement within the next fifty stance, been made.

years. The surrender was not to come

into operation until the Government and INCLOSURE BILL.- QUESTION. Parliament of the Dominion of Canada MR. FAWCETT said, he would beg that assent should be signified within

had accepted these terms, nor unless to ask the Secretary of State for the six months from the 9th of this month. Home Department, What course he intends to take, in reference to the Inclosure Bill now before Parliament ; IRELAND-MAYNOOTH.-REPLY. and, whether the Government will con- MR. GLADSTONE: In reply, Sir, to a sent to the appointment of a Select question put to me the other evening by Committee to inquire into the general the hon. Member for North Warwicksubject of Inclosures ?

shire (Mr. Newdegate) relative to the NR. BRUCE said, in reply, that he visitation of Maynooth, and a portion of was extremely anxious to meet the wishes which I was not then able to answer, I of hon. Members interested in the Bill; have to state that the last visitation of but it did not appear expedient to him the College, under the Act of 1845, octhat, after the third reading had been curred in 1864-5. It was held on the fixed, the Bill should be re-committed, 23rd of November, 1864, and the Report and inquired into by a Committee of the of that visitation was truly presented to Whole House. At the same time, after the House, and ordered to be printed on the statements that had been made, it the 13th of February, 1865, and forms did seem very important that the subject No. 25 of the Parliamentary Papers of should be inquired into, and the conduct that year. Therefore, Sir, there is no of the Inclosure Commissioners cleared Report with respect to which there has up. He would consent to a Select Com- been any failure to lay before this House. mittee to inquire—not into the whole subject--but into the administration of

IRELAND-THE IRISH SOCIETY. those acts in reference to the allotments for the poor; and if the hon. Gentleman would move for such a Committee, he MR. MAGUIRE said, he rose to move would suspend the further progress of for the appointment of a Royal Commisthe Bill, on the understanding that the sion to inquire into the manner in which Bill should be expeditiously proceeded the Irish Society administered their prowith, so that the Report might be made perty in the North of Ireland. He venbefore the end of the Session, and that,, tured to say there were not 100 Mem

MOTION FOR A COMMISSION.

a