themselves for copying their correspond- the Store office; and it is proposed-as ence, and in their case it is both eco- I understand the present arrangementnomical and sufficient. But it is very that this duty is to be confided to a clerk different in the official correspondence with £800 a year. I understand the for a public office. The references to it chief clerk in the Storekeeper General's are so frequent, and the time for which office is the person who is to be responsiit is required to last is so considerable, ble to the Controller of the Navy for the that the flimsy character of the paper issue of £1,000,000 worth of stores in used for it and the perishable nature of this country, and for the due supply of the copying ink are almost certain to our foreign squadrons in all parts of the cause the destruction of the public re- world with materials of war, with coal, cords which it is so essential to preserve and with all the necessary stores which at the Admiralty. Members of this alone can enable these squadrons to House will find it extremely incon- carry on the public service. It may be Tenient when they ask for copies of necessary under the new arrangements political correspondence to be told that -with regard to the Store department it has been recorded on copying paper, in the dockyards—that the Controller and is now totally illegible. [Mr. should have control there ; but I fear CHILDERS: The political correspondence that great irregularities may arise from is copied by hand, and not on copying the supply of our foreign squadrons paper.] Well, that rather proves my being intrusted to a minor official subcase, as the object of all copying is to ordinate to a great department. I can obtain a record. With respect to the conscientiously say that no one is more abolition of the office of Storekeeper capable or more trustworthy than the General, I desire to say that I believe present chief clerk (Mr. Girdlestone), great public inconvenience will result but it is wrong to intrust so responsible from its abolition. The subject has an office to an official so extremely unbeen well considered, and I heard all derpaid as is proposed. I am glad to the difficulties suggested by the Con- find that the merits of the Registrar of troller of the Navy and others before the ontracts have not been overlooked, and Committee last year, of which I was a that his salary has been raised to an member, as to the inconvenience of hav- amount more in correspondence with the ing the Storekeeper General not as a responsibility of his office; but, for simisubordinate, but as co-equal with the lar reasons, it seems to me the equal Controller of the Navy. It seems to me responsible office which has to keep up that

, in making this change, the right the supply of our fleets should receive at hon. Gentleman has only considered the least equal consideration. I must say duties of the Storekeeper General in re- that the Storekeeper General has, on ference to the custody and supply of many occasions, saved the country very stores for the dockyards at home and considerable sums of money in conseabroad, and has omitted to consider his quence of his antagonism to and collision iar more important duty of supplying with the Controller. I can give the our foreign squadrons, which is that Committee an instance - A short time Flich-as far as naval efficiency is con- before the abolition of the office of cerned-makes his office so essential to Storekeeper General, the Controller of the interests of the country. The value the Navy received orders to build cerof the stores under the Storekeeper Gene- tain ships, and of course it was his duty ral's charge is, in this country, over to endeavour to build them as cheaply 28,000,000, and the receipt and issue, as possible. The Controller made a dein last year, is over £1,000,000. Well

, mand on the Storekeeper General to purthe Controller may contrive to be re- chase teak to build these ships. The sponsible for the receipt and issue of Storekeeper General declined, and rethese stores, but it is quite impossible ported to the Board of Admiralty that for the Controller-in addition to his there was plenty of excellent oak timber already sufficiently onerous duties

to in the yards which was excellent for be personally responsible for the supply shipbuilding purposes. The oak timof our foreign squadrons. Every in-ber, however, had been bought and paid grease or decrease of force, every addi- for and taken in charge by the Storetwa to or subtraction from our squadrons, keeper General at a higher price than requires a corresponding arrangement in the present price of teak. The oak tim

more

ber would therefore have to be issued to Dacres), I do not know whether my the Controller of the Navy at a higher noble Friend (Lord John Hay)—who is, price apparently than the teak. But I understand, to assist him—is able to the oak timber could not be sold in the take it as easy there as he is now doing, market for the price to be paid for the or whether he is now reposing after the teak, and if not used in this way would arduous labours of the day. There have become waste; and this waste seems to be no special business for which would have been occasioned only to my noble Friend is specially responsible, effect a book saving, by making the whilst my gallant Friend Sir Sidney ships so built appear a little cheaper, Dacres seems to me to have more work whereas they would actually have cost imposed on him than he can possibly more. The Storekeeper General accord- get through. Indeed, I have heard with ingly brought this to the notice of the great regret that Sir Sidney Dacres is Board, and my right hon. Friend com- even now unable to work from illness pelled the Controller to construct the brought on, no doubt, by the multifarious vessels in question of oak, and who duties and excessive labour now imposed thus, while apparently-as far as a book upon him. Is my noble Friend now charge goes—was putting the country responsible during Sir Sidney Dacres' to some expense, was in reality effecting illness for all these duties assigned to a considerable saving, by using good the First Naval Lord; and would it not stores in our possession, instead of leav- be wiser to divide the duties ing them to waste, and buying that equally, as well as the responsibilities which only seemed a little cheaper, but that are involved ? was not more effective for the purpose. SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, he

KING Now, it is obvious that it would have wished to say a word or two about copybeen a great disadvantage to the public ing letters. His own experience showed service if the right hon. Gentleman had him that copying-machines could not be not compelled the Controller to use this trusted. Some sixteen or seventeen years timber, which could not have been sold ago, when he was Secretary of State for advantageously. The Storekeeper Gene- the Colonies, his private secretary thought ral being an independent officer, and that great economy might be effected by co-equal with the Controller of the the use of these machines. A few years Navy, at once brought this subject ago he had occasion to refer to the copies under the notice of the Board ; but so made, and had the greatest possible will a clerk in the Storekeeper's office, difficulty in reading them. Indeed, he and under the superintendence of the believed that they would now be found Controller, possess such power? It is to be blank sheets of paper. He thought clear that such a person will have to the right hon. Gentleman could not enreport not to the Board, but to the Con- tirely approve the system of machinetroller—the very person whom it was copying, as it was not to be applied to the duty of the Storekeeper General to all kinds of correspondence. check. Sir James Graham pointed out MR. CORRY explained that his right that one of the great advantages of hon. Friend (Mr. Childers) was in error giving the principal officers co-ordinate in supposing that he did not share the jurisdiction and permanent office was opinion expressed by Sir James Graham preventing them from being influenced as to the supremacy of the First Lord, by, political feeling; and one benefit but it was one thing to exercise suprearising from their being independent of macy as the head of a consulting Board, each other was that they might offer to and another to exercise it in the manner the Board of Admiralty suggestions which had been substituted for it by the which-as in the instance I have just recent changes in the administration of referred to—might effect great economy the Admiralty. in the public service. I therefore feel MR. CHILDERS said, he was glad that after the abolition of the office of to find that his right hon. Friend agreed Storekeeper General we shall not have with Sir James Graham. With regard the same security as before that our to copying, he thought the right hon. ships on distant stations will be effi- Member for Droitwich would admit that ciently supplied with stores. As to the out of every 1,000 letters answered by immense amount of work now thrown the Admiralty, only one or two required on the First Naval Lord (Sir Sidney to be confidentially copied. The very

imputant letters were still transcribed building, Constructor's department, inis the political department, while the ventions and experiments in steam and others were copied by means of machines. ships, gunnery and returns, Store departAs to the Storekeeper General, he wished ment, and appointments of engineers. to explain that formerly that officer not That amount of business he believed it only received the accounts of stores in to be impossible for any man to carry all parts of the world, and advised as out efficiently. He would again refer to the quantity and quality of the stocks to the plan laid down in 1864. That to be maintained, but also superintended plan, he believed, formed the basis of the purchasing and contract department. the management of the present United Under the new arrangement the finan- States Navy, and had been found to work cial part of the business devolved on an satisfactorily. He was perfectly satisfied officer under the Financial Secretary, that they never could manage the Navy Thile the Store account business was with any degree of satisfaction unless placed in the hands of the Superinten- the heads of the Departments were made dent of Stores, under the Controller of responsible for the duties they had to the Navy.

perform, and were not allowed to screen SIE JAMES ELPHINSTONE said, themselves under the signatures of the he thought it impossible for any two Lords of the Admiralty. With regard men to discharge the duties laid upon to copying - machines, his right hon. the First Naval Lord and the noble Lord Friend (Mr. Childers), who had been in the Member for Ripon (Lord John Hay). the colonies, must know that from the There were no fewer than forty-five character of the paper employed, and separate subjects which they had to at- from other circumstances, foreign cortend to, among which were, looking after respondence

soon became almost entirely ships in commission, the manning of the illegible. He was convinced, also, that feet , the distribution of the fleet, marines, the same result would fol

after a cerand marine artillery, the Coastguard, the tain period in this country, in the case Taval coast volunteers, the Royal Naval of copies of letters made by copying Reserve

, pensioners, when called out, presses. He could not understand why appointments to ships of the line, the the Controller of the Coastguard should discipline of the navy, protection of trade be reduced, nor could he understand why and fisheries, commissions at sea, the Captain Willes, who was one of the best Hrdrographic department, the transport officers in the service, should

be deprived service, the convict service, coaling, the of the office which his predecessors had medical service, appointment of medical held, and should be placed in a subordiofficers

, the Victualling department, half- nate position. He believed the object pas of officers, Greenwich Hospital, the to be simply to throw dust in the eyes Admiralty Court, and the general salvage of the public, to induce them to believe question. Any one of these must be con- that great reductions had been effected, tizually giving rise to discussions. When where in reality no reduction at all had it was remembered that the sun never been made. At the same time he beset upon our flag, that we had colonies lieved that there was not one of the

every part of the world, that our officers who had received an increase of squadrons were to be found in every sea, salary who even now was not extremely and that questions connected with these underpaid for the work he had to persubjects were continually cropping up, form. Officers were brought to London, be believed the work to be utterly im- and were expected to mix in the society practicable. With regard to another of the metropolis, and to receive officers matter - the control of the Controller of the service, and this they had to do was now utterly removed. The Con- on a smaller income than that which an soller went to a Board, where his de- ordinary private gentleman received. The Egas might be picked to pieces by the consequence was that it was impossible majority-a contingency which he be- that naval officers could make proper dered was not unlikely to happen—and provision for their families. The case to him was also confided the whole of of Mr. Murray was one deserving of rethe stores of the Navy, a policy which mark. That gentleman, although he be believed to be a most mischievous had never complained of his salary, had Oze. He had to look after the steam certainly grave reason to complain of the reserte, dockyards, dockyard craft, ship- position in which the Government had

ever.

on

placed him — a position far below his

“ Promotion by merit is the established rule to that which he would have occupied | Civil Service a way is opened to independence deserts, and which was greatly inferior in the Civil Service, and to every young man

who becomes the servant of the Crown in the had he expended his abilities in private and eren eminence.” enterprize instead of in the public service. As Superintendent of Dachinery, And the hon. Member was supported by Mr. Murray had the most onerous and the First Minister of the Crown, who responsible duties to perform, and he stated that the subject was a very prothought that gentleman had a very great per one to bring forward. His noble grievance. If he were to reduce any Friend the Member for Chichester (Lord officer at the Admiralty he would reduce Henry Lennox) was, in his opinion, enthe Civil Lord, because Civil Lords wore, titled to the same merit when he brought in his opinion, of no earthly use what- forward the case of the clerks who had

A young gentleman, generally an been discharged, and who, if they had aspirant for Parliamentary honours, was not a vested right, certainly had a moral called in and made a Civil Lord, and to right to consideration, their parents his care were confided the enormous having expended their capital in their works which were always being carried education, and they themselves having

works about which he could not undergone the examination necessary to have the slightest knowledge. If such qualify themselves for the offices which a Civil Lord were examined as to the they had filled. After all this he believed mechanism of a dry dock, a caisson, or they were entitled to retain their situaany other of the appliances in daily use, tions, and yet they had been treated in he could give no answer, but by occupy- a manner in which, he ventured to say, ing the position of Civil Lord he was no gentleman would treat his footman, enabled to learn by rote a certain official his groom, or his cook under the same jargon, and, after a time, to come down circumstances. He certainly felt it his and puzzle every old sailor in the House. duty to move the reduction of the Vote He now wished to refer to another point, by £500, the salary payable to the Asand that was the appointment of Mr. sistant to the Inspector of Yard Accounts, Fellowes as assistant to the Inspector of and he should press his Motion to a Yard Accounts. With Mr. Fellowes's ori- division. gin they were, probably, all acquainted; but Mr. Fellowes was chiefly famous for Motion made, and Question proposed, having, before the Commission of which

“That a sum, not exceeding £168,204, be he (Sir James Elphinstone) was a mem- granted to Her Majesty, to defray_the Salaries of ber, told more cock-and-bull stories and the Officers and the contingent Expenses of the discovered more mares' nests than any Admiralty Office, which will come in course of other man, and if he had been appointed payment during the year ending on the 31st day

of March 1870.”—(Sir James Elphinstone.) assistant inspector of mares' nests the post might have been a suitable one. MR. GLADSTONE said, that it was Indeed, there was no one single state- rather remarkable that the Committee ment which Mr. Fellowes made which had been detained for two or three hours was not as emphatically denied by the listening to complaints from the other Controller in his evidence. Only that side respecting the economies which had morning he had taken up his pencil to been effected by his right hon. Friend underline the contradictions made by the the First Lord of the Admiralty, and Controller, but they soon became so nu- that now they were suddenly met by a merous that he got tired, and threw the Motion for further economy made by book down in disgust. And yet they the hon. Baronet opposite (Sir James were going to give Mr. Fellowes this Elphinstone). At first sight the spectacle post, with a salary of £500 a year, when was highly satisfactory, because it ap. they had been compelled, as his right peared to indicate that both sides of the hon. Friend said, with regret, to dis- House were about to run a race in order charge a number of young gentlemen to see which could bring about the whose abilities and talents rendered their greatest economy—a race in which the services exceedingly valuable. In an public would gain the whole benefit

. earlier part of the evening an hon. Gen- But he was sorry to say that when they tleman (Mr. Buxton) had called atten- looked under the surface the aspect of the tion to the Treasury Minute of the 30th case somewhat changed. He gathered of November, 1868, stating that- from the Motion of the hon. and gal