PARAGRAPH 273-FISH, SMOKED, FROZEN, ETC.

Mr. LONGWORTH. Do you know any consumer that is not a producer except a tramp?

Mr. SILVA. Well, sometimes he is a producer.

Mr. LONGWORTH. Sometimes he is a producer?

Mr. FORDNEY. Without anything personal, my friend, for you look like a sober man

Mr. SILVA. Never drunk a drop of liquor in my life.

Mr. FORDNEY. You people in the fish industry, some of them up there, consume a little Kentucky product. Therefore you are consumers of my Kentucky friend's product, and he, in return, buys your fish product, and therefore each of you is an ultimate consumer and therefore you are exchanging trade and courtesies one with the other?

Mr. JAMES. I would like to say one thing, that if you consume any of that Kentucky product you consume the best in the world.

Mr. SILVA. I have here resolutions that have been adopted by the different organizations in defense of an appeal that I am going to leave with the committee.

Mr. HARRISON. You may file them with the clerk.

Mr. SILVA. I thank you.

Mr. HARRISON. Mr. Gardner, will you produce your next witness? Mr. GARDNER. Mr. Fred Davis, who is engaged in the business of catching the fish and packing the fish, and selling the fish, is my next witness.

TESTIMONY OF FRED DAVIS, OF GLOUCESTER, MASS.

Fred Davis, having first been duly sworn by the chairman, testified as follows:

Mr. DAVIS. I am coming here to-day, gentlemen, to protest against any change or lowering of the duty on fish products of any kind.

I not only come here against free fish, raw material as you call it, the green fish, but the manufactured fish. We must remember that this raw material that this fisherman produces, is the finished product of this fisherman. We must remember that our fishing business throughout the United States, especially on the Atlantic coast, is carried on on a share basis. The fisherman is a sharer in the gain or loss of the trip which he makes. Therefore, if the price of his fish is to be reduced, he suffers. It is his wage. He is not paid by the week, or by the month; it means his daily trade; it means the support of his family; if he comes in with his fresh fish into the Boston market, and that price is down to 2 cents, or that price is up to 5 cents, he shares three-quarters of the difference between the 2 cents and the 5 cents. The vessel would take one-quarter, or one-fifth of it, on whatever lay she is on. He has got to pay for the expenses of that trip. If that trip comes in in debt, when the fish goes down to a low price, that fish will come in in debt; and he will have nothing for the trip, and will have to wait a month, perhaps, without one cent. He has no money to take home to his family. That is the situation that the raw material comes under.

In the salt fish it is the same, only he salts the fish on the bank. We must remember another thing as to the fish market, that if you are going to open the door for free raw material, and bring free

PARAGRAPH 3-FISH, SMOKED, FROZEN, ETC.

fresh fish into Boston, or any other place of course the great fresh fish market of our country is Boston-the minute we do that we are opening up the Boston market to a large number of trollers which are now lying partially idle, or without profit, on the other side.

Mr. HARRISON. Would the effect of doing that, Mr. Davis, be to reduce the price of fish to the people of Boston?

Mr. Davis. Would that be to reduce the price of fish to Boston? Not to the consumer, no, sir.

Mr. LONGWORTH. Are you a wholesaler?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes, sir; and a retailer.

Mr. LONGWORTH. Has the wholesale price gone up recently-in the the last 10 years?

It

Mr. DAVIS. The wholesale price of fish, which I could give you best, is on fish cake, which is the article which is sold most to the trade has varied from 9 cents to 11 cents in the last 15 years. has varied during those 15 years between those prices. The present price now, to-day, to the jobbing trade is 11 cents. That costs the jobber, without any overhead charges, without 1 cent expense for selling these goods, or interest on his investment, or his plant, or in any way, shape, or manner, it costs between 10 cents and 11.31 cents. Mr. KITCHIN. Are you interested in these fishing boats?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. KITCHIN. How many does your company have?

Mr. DAVIS. I think I have 9 or 10.

Mr. KITCHIN. You are the largest fisherman or wholesale fish dealer in that section, are you not?

Mr. DAVIS. No, sir; I am not.

Mr. KITCHIN. Your company is, is it not?

Mr. DAVIS. No, sir.

Mr. KITCHIN. What foreign fishermen do your fishermen come into competition with?

Mr. DAVIS. We come into competition more especially with Nova Scotia, especially on the finished product.

Mr. KITCHIN. I am talking about the green fish.

Mr. DAVIS. The green fish-we come into competition with Nova Scotia.

Mr. KITCHIN. Well, your fishermen catch the fish in the same waters as the Nova Scotia fishermen, do they not?

Mr. DAVIS. To some extent; not altogether.

Mr. KITCHIN. You catch the same kind of fish, do you not?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. KITCHIN. You use the same kind of boats?

Mr. DAVIS. The same model of boats, perhaps, but the cost is nearly double; 40 per cent more for our boats.

Mr. KITCHIN. You mean your boats cost more?

Mr. DAVIS. Our boats cost 40 per cent more than theirs do.

Mr. KITCHIN. Well, the Nova Scotia fisherman is paid in the same. manner, according to the number of pounds of fish that are caught, as your fisherman, is he not?

Mr. DAVIS. He is not paid in exactly the same manner.

Mr. KITCHIN. He shares in the catch of the boats, does he not? Mr. DAVIS. He shares in the proceeds of the voyage, after it is cured and sold in the foreign market.

PARAGRAPH 273-FISH, SMOKE, FROZEN, ETC.

Mr. KITCHIN. Well, yes; just like your fishermen; just like the American fishermen.

Mr. DAVIS. No; not like the American fishermen, because the American fisherman comes in, and he brings his catch in, and in 24 hours he gets his money; and the other man waits four months.

Mr. KITCHIN. But the other fisherman-suppose he sells his goods green or fresh?

Mr. DAVIS. He would if he comes to Boston; he is on shares.

Mr. KITCHIN. He is on shares just like your fisherman; and he shares in the amount of the green product, or the fresh fish that is caught?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes.

Mr. KITCHIN. He does not wait until the American merchant dries and packs the fish?

Mr. DAVIS. Not in that case; no, sir.

Mr. GARDNER. May I ask the witness a question? I do not think you quite caught what Mr. Kitchin wants to know. He wants to know whether the Nova Scotia fishermen or the Newfoundland fishermen fish on shares or not.

Mr. DAVIS. They do fish on shares.

Mr. GARDNER. But there is little difference. The difference comes in taking out all expenses beforehand, does it not?

Mr. DAVIS. The difference comes on the expense, and the lay which they go on. And you must bear in mind that when that man gets fresh fish from Nova Scotia, he is satisfied to wait and be fitted in the same relative position to our American position—it is the same as the woolen manufacturer does, or the cotton manufacturer does, alongside of our American manufacturer.

Mr. KITCHIN. How many of these Nova Scotia men, or men' from Newfoundland, work on your boats?

Mr. DAVIS. How many?

Mr. KITCHIN. Yes.

Mr. DAVIS. I could not give you the number.

Mr. KITCHIN. Are not a large proportion of the fishermen on your boats foreigners?

Mr. DAVIS. They are not native born, no; any more than the manufacturer in the cotton mill. They do not grow them here. We get them somewhere else.

Mr. KITCHIN. Well, you get them from the same place that the Newfoundland fishermen and Nova Scotia fishermen get them, do you not?

Mr. DAVIS. We have some from all countries.

Mr. KITCHIN. Both get them from the same source, and on the Nova Scotia and the Newfoundland boats you will find some Americans also, will you not?

Mr. DAVIS. I presume so.

Mr. KITCHIN. Now, you know so, do you not?

Mr. DAVIS. I would not say from personal knowledge. I could not. Mr, GARDNER. Well, what do you think? That is news to me, Mr. Davis.

Mr. KITCHIN. It is not news to me.

Mr. LONGWORTH. Where do your employees live?

PARAGRAPH 273-FISH, SMOKED, FROZEN, ETC.

Mr. KITCHIN. Will you answer my question? I say that you find Americans on those Newfoundland boats and those Nova Scotia fishing boats, too, do you not?

Mr. DAVIS. You mean American born?

Mr. KITCHIN. Yes; the same kind of Americans that you have on your boats?

Mr. DAVIS. For instance, we have residents of the United States who have lived here all ther lives, but who are not voters.

Mr. KITCHIN. Yes; but you find American citizens on the fishing boats of Nova Scotia and Newfoundland, do you not?

Mr. DAVIS. There might be, but it is very rare.

Mr. GARDNER. Did you ever know a case?

Mr. DAVIS. I could not say I did.

Mr. KITCHIN. Well, I think you suggested that to the witness, Mr. Gardner. Did you ever read a report by a commission appointed in your State a year or two ago on the high cost of living, and what was said about fish and the fishing industry?

Mr. DAVIS. That was just before reciprocity, was it not?

Mr. KITCHIN. What do you say?

Mr. DAVIS. That was just before reciprocity, was it not?

Mr. KITCHIN. Yes.

Mr. DAVIS. I heard of that.

Mr. KITCHIN. You belong to the same party as the man who just preceded you, do you not?

Mr. DAVIS. The same party?

Mr. KITCHIN. The same political party that the gentleman belonged to that just preceded you, do you not?

Mr. DAVIS. Well

Mr. KITCHIN (interposing). I know you might be a little ashamed, but do you not?

Mr. DAVIS. No, sir; I am not ashamed of it.

Mr. KITCHIN. You do belong to it?

Mr. DAVIS. No, sir; I do not belong to the man that took the fraud vote.

Mr. KITCHIN. You do not belong to the Republican protection party?

Mr. DAVIS. I belong to the Progressive party, sir.

Mr. KITCHIN. Well, what I was getting at

Mr. DAVIS. There is a good many that feel that way.

Mr. KITCHIN. Quite right. This commission was not appointed by revenue tariff Democrats in your State.

Mr. DAVIS. We did not have any a long while ago.

Mr. KITCHIN. They were appointed by a Republican governor? Mr. DAVIS. I could not tell you; I would have to allow your statement to be correct. I do not know.

Mr. KITCHIN. I believe you said that if fish was put on the free list it would not help the consumer. Did not this commission report that one way to help the poor people in your State, and reduce the high cost of living, was to remove the tariff on all food products, which, of course, includes fish?

Mr. DAVIS. They might have.

Mr. KITCHIN. Do you not know that they did?

PARAGRAPH 273-FISH, SMOKED, FROZEN, ETC.

Mr. DAVIS. I do not know so, sir. I did not read that report. Mr. KITCHIN. But you heard so much about what they did report that you got disgusted with it and would not read it, would you? Mr. DAVIS. Well, we will pass it.

Mr. KITCHIN. You know they did make such a report, do you not? Mr. DAVIS. I do not say they did not.

Mr. KITCHIN. Well, it was current rumor and current history that they did make such a report, was it not?

Mr. DAVIS. Well, let us let it go into history.

Mr. KITCHIN. Mr. Gardner, that is true, is it not?

Mr. GARDNER. I did not know it was true, if you are asking me. I was just asking Mr. McCall if he had ever heard of it.

Mr. KITCHIN. Well, I remember reading it. They were pretty clear on recommending free food products.

Mr. GARDNER. That may be so; but I just asked Mr. McCall about it. Mr. DAVIS. I might have heard it reported, but I do not know anything about it.

Mr. LONGWORTH. Do your boats go into Gloucester in their fishing?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes, sir; Gloucester and Boston.

Mr. LONGWORTH. Where do your men live when they are not on boats?

Mr. DAVIS. A large part of my men live in Gloucester.

Mr. LONGWORTH. Do their families live in Gloucester?

Mr. DAVIS. Some of them do. A great many of the fishermen are single men.

Mr. JAMES. I did not catch that last statement.

Mr. DAVIS. A great many of the fishermen are single men; a good many of them have families. But in the fresh fishing business, the crews of fresh fishing vessels are largely the younger men.

Mr. JAMES. Well, could men work on your boats and live in Nova Scotia ?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. JAMES. Do they?

Mr. DAVIS. They sometimes do so; yes, sir.

Mr. JAMES. How often is that the case?

Mr. DAVIS. Perhaps a quarter of the crew.

Mr. JAMES. A fourth of your crew?

Mr. DAVIS. I presume they do.

Mr. JAMES. One-fourth of them live in Nova Scotia?

Mr. DAVIS. I presume so; yes, sir.

Mr. JAMES. And you are paying wages to them?

Mr. DAVIS. We are paying shares to them.

Mr. JAMES. So that, if this tariff is protective, it is protecting the wage earner in Novo Scotia ?

Mr. DAVIS. Yes, but he moves up and becomes a resident after a while.

Mr. JAMES. Well, I understand, when he moves up

Mr. DAVIS (interposing). Well, he does move up.

Mr. JAMES. Just a minute. How is it that if you have Nova Scotia workmen working for you, that you have to pay twice as much as the Nova Scotia fisherman pays for the same class of work!