Mr. FORDNEY. If that duty was raised, would you expect that the labor would get its fair share of that increase?

Mr. ROGERS. Labor will fight for it.

Mr. FORDNEY. Do you think they would get it?

Mr. ROGERS. They will try awfully hard for it. I do not know whether we will get it.

Mr. CLARK. Do you think you would get it all?

Mr. ROGERS. No; I do not think we would, to be honest.

Mr. CLARK. But your share ought to be the whole thing.

Mr. ROGERS. If you could talk to my employer, you might convince him.

Mr. CLARK. I would like to get hold of all the employers and make that plea to them, and we might settle the tariff question for all time

to come.

Mr. ROGERS. It is this way; there are hundreds of thousands of these bound books brought into this country daily and annually that are bound in England. I do not believe that the purchaser of one of those books gets the benefit of the price. I believe that the American bookseller and the American publisher charge on American basis.

Mr. Chairman, there are instances where they employ in one shop almost as many workmen as we have in the city of New York, because they can work one-half cheaper. But I will not detain you on these fine bindings. I would rather go along now to the educational part of it. I believe the gentlemen here to-day have been talking about the libraries. I would like to ask you gentlemen if you would consider every novel that may be published an educational work? In the libraries where I come from, you go in and you will get almost any novel that is published. All books can come in here free for educational purposes. The New York Library and the Brooklyn Library and the Newark Library and the Utica Library, and probably a dozen others, send their books abroad to be bound in England. Why do they do it? Can it not be done here? I claim, as a man with a little knowledge of the trade-more than thirty years' knowledge of itthat it can be done here as well as it can be done in any foreign country. But to come back to the first principle-cheapness. There is a firm in London binding books for the New York Library to-day that pays an average of $7.50 a week wages, and that binder gets the bulk of the work. It is sent right over here, shipped over here, brought back in cases from England, and distributed to the various libraries in the country that he works for. We have talked with that gentleman on behalf of the organization, and tried to get him to locate his whole plant in this country, and he said: "Gentlemen, as long as the law stands as it is, I will take the full advantage of it; but when the law is changed, I will change my plant." Give us some protection on that work, and we will make him do the work here, and we will get the work to do.

I do not wish to take up any more of your time, but I would like to make a plea to you to give us something on these three clauses. We do not want it for profit-we want it for living. It means the bread and butter to us and our children-that is all. But if this thing goes on, Mr. Chairman, in a few years this class of binding will be wiped out or destroyed.

I beg to call your attention to the extremely inconsistent and contradictory state of the tariff law affecting books and bookbinding. Books in the English language that have been printed more than twenty years at date of importation, and books printed in languages other than English, are free of duty.

Books in the English language printed within twenty years previous to date of importation are chargeable with duty at rate of 25 per cent ad valorem.

However, such books, even though they are printed in English and within twenty years previous to date of importation, are free of duty if imported for educational purposes.

These three classes of exemptions-first, books in English over 20 years old; second, books in foreign languages; third, books for educational purposes have opened wide the ports of the United States to floods of foreign bookbinding.

The first two mentioned exemptions bring here probably about 70 to 80 per cent of the product of Paris and London in the way of artistic bookbindings, and have been largely the means of building up the extensive and famous art binding businesses of those two cities, while, as a direct consequence, the United States can not boast of a singie art bindery as such.

The third-mentioned exemption allows publishers, booksellers, and dealers to ship from foreign binderies into the United States, frequently and continually, thousands upon thousands of volumes of current literature free of duty, because they are bound for schools, educational institutions, and public libraries of this country.

The American bookbinder could cheerfully take the chances of foreign competition opened against him by the three classes of duty exemptions just referred to were it not for the fact that all of the materials used in the production of books, such as paper, glue, cloth, leather, and gold leaf are subject to a heavy duty, and for the additional fact that the cost of labor for bookbinding, like the cost of labor for all work in a duty-protected country, is increased by taxes on food, clothing, shelter, and transportation.

Under the present tariff arrangement the bookbinder in the United States must buy his materials and labor at protection prices and sell large and important classes of his product at prices determined by free trade.

Thus, the foreign bookbinder obtains not only the advantage of the three classes of duty exemptions before mentioned; he obtains an additional advantage, practically a bounty from the United States Government in the form of a duty on bookbinding materials used here, which means, in other words, that nearly all foreign-made art bindings, all school and public library books from abroad, though made up of dutiable materials, such as paper, cloth, leather, and gold leaf, are imported duty free, while the American products of the same class are increased in cost by the impost of a burdensome tax on their component materials.

Foreign bookbinding is fostered; home bookbinding is taxed, in some classes, almost to extinction.

Now, having placed before you the serious disabilities which the contradictory state of the tariff imposes upon the bookbinding industry of the United States of America, I wish to ask if you would

kindly give your favor and support to a measure purposed to be introduced in Congress which will remedy the evils referred to, and place the bookbinding industry on a commercial basis level with that of the other industries of this country, and also with the bookbinding industries of other countries.

STATEMENT OF GEORGE SULLIVAN, OF PHILADELPHIA, PA., WHO WISHES TARIFF ON BOOKS LEFT UNDISTURBED.

SATURDAY, November 21, 1908.

Mr. Chairman: I have a short brief here which I will not read. I will state that on behalf of the book-paper part of the industrythat is, the book manufacturers of the industry-we do not ask for any increase of the tariff, but we request that the tariff remain as it is, and the various statistics pertaining to that industry you will find in this brief. Of course, the question of wages to our employees is, as in the rest of these industries, the most vital and important part, and we feel the present tariff on book paper of 15 per cent is not an excessive one, but it is certainly a just and fair tariff and should remain as it is for the benefit of our industry. We feel that we should not be picked out or selected as the one industry in the country in which the tariff would be such that it would affect us in any way, but that we should have the same protection as every other industry. Our people are American citizens-that is, as far as we can possibly tell-and the vast number of them are such that they require the same consideration as others. There is a comparative wage scale that you will find in this brief between one of the leading mills on the other side and one of the leading mills on this side, and the value of our production during the last year-that is, the year 1907-amounted to $48,000,000. As a small illustration of the equity of the duty, I have here a volume which I have figured out, to illustrate just what a small thing it amounts to to the consumer. This book I purchased here this morning in Washington, and the method of figuring out you will find on this fly leaf, which shows that the duty on the paper in this book amounts to less than half a cent a copy to the consumer.

Mr. GAINES. What is the book?

Mr. SULLIVAN. This is just an ordinary novel, called "The Extreme Test," by Mrs. Reynolds.

Mr. GAINES. What did it cost you to buy it?

Mr. SULLIVAN. It cost $1.18 at a bookstore here in Washington. Of course the figures here are ample, because we have weighed the cover, including it in the weight, and of course the part that interests us is the part inside.

Mr. RANDELL. I think the question was what it cost to bind it.
Mr. GAINES. No; I asked him what it cost to buy it.

Mr. RANDELL. I thought you said to bind it.

Mr. GAINES. No, to buy it. Did you buy it in Washington?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. GAINES. What did it cost, do you remember?

Mr. SULLIVAN. A dollar and eighteen cents.

Mr. GAINES. What is the paper in it?

Mr. SULLIVAN. The paper is an average 4 cent a pound paper, less 3 per cent for 30 days, and the paper in this volume weighs a scant 15 ounces, including the cover, so that fifteen-sixteenths of this makes the cost of this 3.75 cents, or a trifle over 5 mills per copy.

Mr. GAINES. Assuming that the entire duty is added to the cost of the paper, how much would that increase the cost of that volume; how much would that be on the book?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Half a cent for this copy.

Mr. GAINES. Half a cent for a book costing a dollar and eighteen cents?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. RANDELL. What did it cost to manufacture that book?

Mr. SULLIVAN. That I can not tell you, sir. I am a paper manufacturer and not a book manufacturer. Of course, you will have to ask some book manufacturer what it cost to manufacture. I am only talking about the paper.

Mr. RANDELL. What sort of binding is it?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Just the ordinary binding that is on novels.

The CHAIRMAN. Do not spend too much time on these exhibits. You can not get them into the record.

Mr. RANDELL. How would you describe that binding?

Mr. SULLIVAN. It is just an ordinary novel binding.

Mr. RANDELL. Is it cloth or leather!

Mr. SULLIVAN. It is a cloth binding. Now, I have two other illustrations here which may possibly interest you. Here is a magazine. This magazine weighs 10 ounces, so that in the twelve months there would be 8 pounds used in the year's issue. The tariff on that amounts to one-fourth of a cent to the consumer per number.

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Mr. UNDERWOOD. Are you talking about the tariff on the book or on the paper?

Mr. SULLIVAN. On the paper.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. You are not talking about the printing or the binding?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir; I am speaking only of the paper that is in the book. Here is another illustration. This is a better magazine, which shows a half a cent a number per year to the consumer; so that, taking all those facts into consideration, we feel that our duty is not an excessive one.

Mr. CLARK. Now, while you got a very little off of each one, you got a great deal off of the total; is not that true?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Of course that is true; yes, sir. But at the same time we feel that our industry is entitled to the same protection as all other industries.

Mr. CLARK. Some of these industries have a protection of 200 or 300 per cent. Do you want that or not?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir; we ask that it shall remain as it is.

Mr. CLARK. Would you rather have them cut down to yours or have yours raised up to theirs?

The CHAIRMAN. What is it that has a protection of 300 per cent? Mr. CLARK. I have a list in my desk where for six months there were some of them that had 100 per cent.

Mr. DALZELL. You are coming down now.

Mr. CLARK. No; I can find them where they had 300 per cent.
Mr. GRIGGS. You represent the paper makers?

Mr. SULLIVAN. The paper part.

Mr. GRIGGS. The book-paper manufacturers?
Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. GRIGGS. And you insist that you need this tariff which at present exists, and you do not want it increased or decreased.

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir; we respectfully ask that it remain as it is. Mr. GRIGGS. Have you not had any combination among yourselves! Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir.

Mr. GRIGGS. Did you not meet about a year ago, or some time ago, at Atlantic City and elsewhere, and raise the price of all this paper about $10 a ton?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir; we had no combination whatever.

Mr. GRIGGS. It went up $10 a ton, did it not?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No; I do not think it did.

Mr. GRIGGS. What was it, $9?

Mr. SULLIVAN. That depends on the grade. Of course the book papers you can buy as low as

Mr. GRIGGS. I refer to the average.

Mr. SULLIVAN. The highest I can recall as far as our own price was concerned, I think the highest we got, was an increase of about $7.50 a ton.

Mr. GRIGGS. Is that the highest you got?

Mr. SULLIVAN. That is the highest.

Mr. GRIGGS. The highest increase you got?
Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes.

Mr. GRIGGS. Not the highest you made?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir; because we make paper from 3 cents a pound up to 6.

Mr. GRIGGS. I just wanted to understand where you got it. You said the highest increase you got was $7.50 a ton. Where did you get that?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Where?

Mr. GRIGGS. Yes; you said you got it somewhere. Where did you get it?

Mr. SULLIVAN. How do you mean, where did we get it?

Mr. GRIGGS. I asked you where this increase came from and you said there was no combination and no understanding and no agreement, and when I asked you what was the highest, you began to speculate on it in your mind, and you said the highest you got was $7.50.

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. GRIGGS. Out of the deal?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir; no deal. We have no affiliation with any

other concern.

Mr. GRIGGS. You have no general agreement?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir.

Mr. GRIGGS. Did you all go up at the same time?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir; we did not.

Mr. GRIGGS. How long did you wait after the others went up? Mr. SULLIVAN. We were up before they were, or some of them. Mr. GRIGGS. You went up first?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. GRIGGS. The others followed you up?