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Classified statement of shipments handled by railroads operating between Chi-

cago and St. Louis in 1922—Continued.

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Illinois Central R. R.'.. 47,920 183, 920 | 115, 250 57, 347, 700 | 242, 400
Chicago & Alton R.JR. 1,970 2, 260
Chicago & Eastern Illi-

6, 770
nois.

1, 960 44, 190
Wabash Railway (east)- 2,930

16, 390

423, 700 83, 480
61, 500

1, 250 | 10, 883, 200 36, 400

1,673, 290 7,656, 140 133, 920
59, 300

430, 700
251, 660 1,071, 240

15, 665
81, 920 6,415,500 288, 730

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Illinois Central R.R.1. 211, 400 10, 120

10, 676 32, 116

8, 543 2, 084
Chicago & Alton R.R.. 5, 575, 500 21, 860 11, 202 141,057 249, 721 25, 193
Chicago & Eastern
Illinois

3, 946, 700 | 150, 570 8,849 | 21, 306 8, 920 12, 185
Wabash Railway
(east) 1.

14,057, 700 465, 320 17, 185 59,428 | 39, 178 16,954

7,704 11, 921, 400 37, 205
1, 502

28, 515
1, 531

20, 675
1
1, 391

2, 205, 700 28, 820

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Illinois Central R. R.1.
Chicago & Alton R. R.
Chicago & Eastern Illinois.
Wabash Railway (east).

8, 517, 530
130, 620
19, 670
16,370

89, 190

4,820 8,532, 300 102, 444, 100 52, 949,000
7, 255 915, 300 2, 290, 200 904, 700
2, 265 132, 800 378, 700 | 1, 436, 900
8, 360 90, 100 7, 702, 700 7, 167, 700

280
51, 470
558, 460

1 It is estimated that only one-third of the amounts shown for the Illinois Central and
Wabash moved between St. Louis

and Chicago and intermediate points.

Classified statement of shipments handled by railroads operating between Chi

cago and St. Louis in 1922—Continued.

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1 It is estimated that only one-third of the amounts shown for the Ilinois Central and Wabash moved between St. Louis and Chicago and intermediate points,

STATEMENT OF MR. FRANKLIN L. VELDE, PEKIN, ILL.

The CHAIRMAN. We shall be very glad to hear from Mr. Velde.

Mr. VELDE. I am a lawyer by profession, but I am not here in that capacity. I am here specifically as the vice president and representative of the Illinois Valley Protective Association, and they adopted within the past week a set of resolutions.

The CHAIRMAN. Which you may file with the stenographer.

Mr. VELDE. I would like to read them, so that the committee can get the form of them.

The CHAIRMAN. I am sure, with your experience as a lawyer, that you can tell us what is in them without reading them.

Mr. HULL. How long are they?
Mr. VELDE. A page and a half.

I have lived in the Illinois Valley all my life, and while I am not an engineer and an expert, I am familiar with conditions, and I know a few things about this transportation situation, because I think I am within the truth when I say there is more tonnage which originates from and destined to Pekin than any other place between Chicago and St. Louis.

The CHAIRMAN. How large a place is it? Mr. VELDE. About 14,000. The census gives us a little over 12,000, but it is growing, and we have two grain companies there that operate a fleet of boats, and they are very much impeded in their operations by the fact that they have no outlet to Chicago. They bring their grain from above and below Pekin, and then they have to transport it. The CHAIRMAN. How do you get to Pekin? Mr. VELDE. We are just 10 miles from Peoria on the Illinois River. The CHAIRMAN. Do you come up the Mississippi?

Mr. VELDE. No; we go no further than the mouth of the Illinois, but we have no outlet to Chicago at the present time.

Another thing that is to be borne in mind in considering the attitude of the residents of the valley with reference to this legislation is that it is not so much asking for water-we are getting the water already.

The CHAIRMAN. More than you want?

Mr. VELDE. Practically as much as is asked for here, and we feel that by reason of the sanitary condition, the immense population of Chicago, the growth, and the welfare of its citizens

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). Chicago is looking after that pretty well. You tell us about Pekin and down below.

Mr. VELDE. This is a short set of resolutions, and I would like to read them, because they might bring up subjects which will interest members of the committee, and I will be very glad to answer any questions by Congressmen.

The CHAIRMAN. Give it to us as fast as you can.
Mr. VELDE (reading):

Your committee appointed to consider and make recommendations relative to the bill introduced by Congressman Hull relative to the Illinois waterway (H. R. 5475) would respectfully report as follows, viz;

First. We have taken into consideration not only the well-known conditions in the Illinois Valley at flood stages of the river, but also the report made by Engineers Alvord and Burdick during the administration of the division of waterways of the State of Illinois; the testimony of the hearings held before the senatorial committee on the McCormick bill (S. 4428), and the recitals in the bill passed by the Illinois Legislature in 1923 making an appropriation in the city of Beardstown.

Second. It appears from said report made by Alvord and Burdick and said report made by M. G. Barnes that if the diversion of water at Chicago is continued river stages of 28 to 29 feet at the Peoria gauge may be expected. It may not be generally known that a 29-foot stage at Peoria would cause a flow of water 3 to 4 feet deep on the platform and into the station of the Rock Island Depot at Peoria ; would inundate to a depth of over 3 feet a long stretch of a new pared highway between Peoria and Chillicothe; would cause water to stand on the main floor of the Administration Building of the Holt Manufacturing Co, at East Peoria and would inundate the newly constructed ball park at Peoria.

Third. The Hull bill provides for a diversion of 10,000 cubic feet per second from Lake Michigan without taking into account the additional amount of water which--at times of heavy rainfall-comes into the sanitary canal from the watershed in which the sanitary district is located.

Fourth. It appears from the remarks of the senatorial committee on pages 283, 299, and 356 of their said report that the members of said committee are of opinion that the controlling works at Lockport would be and should be under the control of the Federal Government. This is, of course, of tremendous importance to the people in the valley, but is not provided for in the Hull bill.

Fifth. It appears from the remarks of said senatorial committee on pages 298, 299, 301, 349, 356, 357, 365, 378, 379, and 380 of their said report that the senatorial committee was of the opinion that the levees along the Illinois River would be and should be under the control of the Federal Government, but the Hull bill does not so provide.

Sixth. Ten thousand cubic feet of water per second is not needed for navigation purposes. It is needed only for purposes of sanitation in Chicago until they have had an opportunity to build sewage-disposal works and is wanted permanently for water-power purposes between Lockport and Utica. The diversion for sanitary purposes at Chicago should be permitted sufficiently long to permit them to build sewage-disposal works. The diversion for water-power purposes should be permitted only to such an extent and at such times as will not cause damage to the residents of the valley.

Seventh. Your committee is heartily and unanimously in favor of the proposed waterway, but believe that reasonable protection should be afforded the people of the valley.

Eighth. In the opinion of your committee the amendments here proposed do not fully protect the interests of the valley, but we realized that in legislation of this importance some compromise must be made.

Your committtee therefore recommends the approval by this association of the Hull bill, subject to the following amendments, riz:

(a) The bill should be worded in such a way that the discharge through the Sanitary canal be limited to a total of 10,000 cubic feet of water per second from the entire water shed which the sanitary district is forated, which woulii include rainfall as well as diversion from Lake Michigan. Measurements to be taken at the outlet of the sanitary canal at Lockport.

(b) The works at Lockport which regulate the flow from the sanitary district should be in charge of the Federal authorities under the control of the Chief of Engineers or the Secretary of War. Such authorities to keep records open to public inspection, showing the amount of water discharged and the speed of the current.

10) Subject to the payments by the sanitary district (as provided in the bill) for reconstructing old levees and building new standard levees, all levees along the Illinois River should be under the control of Federal authorities, with a jurisdiction similar to that of the Mississippi River commission.

(d) The time to be allowed the sanitary district for constructing sewage disposal works should be materially shortened.

The CHAIRMAN. Right there, do you have anything to suggest as to the measure by which it could be shortened, the extent to which it could be shortened, the time to construct these works to replace the sanitation by water?

Mr. VELDE. Nothing except what I might call hearsay. The CHAIRMIN. Good common sense as evidenced by the members of this commitee!

Mr. VELDE. No. From other people. I know nothing about it.

Mr. Boyce. May I ask the judge? You have spoken of a reasonable quantity of water to safeguard the town of Pekin and adjacent section; I presume you mean water necessary for navigation purposes?

Mr. VELDE. Yes, sir.
Mr. Boyce. What quantity is necessary,

Mr. VELDE. As to engineering figures, I have to depend upon the figures of engineers. They say you can get navigation down the Illinois, with a thousand cubic feet a second. I am satisfied you can not get satisfactory navigation that low. I have been told by others that with 4,167 cubic feet you can get navigation but would cost more money.

Mr. Boyce. Would that inundate your railroad station and other places which you have mentioned

Mr. VELDE. No, sir; I think not. There is another thing to be taken into consideration. The availability of a river route depends not upon its deepest point, but upon its shallowest. For most of its stretches at the present time the Illinois would carry a 9-foot channel, but there are places where the river will have to be excavated.

The CHAIRMAX. In order words, it would depend in a large measure on excavation instead of additional water?

Mr. VELDE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You have the water for the channel, if you had the dredges there to excavate the material?

Mr. VELDE. Yes, sir. Mr. HULL. Your judgment of the river, I take it, is the same as mine, that the river is a navigable stream as it is now.

Mr. VELDE. There is no question about it. Mr. HULL. But of course at the present time we have locks in it. Mr. VELDE. Yes, sir. Mr. HULL. And by turning in additional water from the Lake, we will dispose of the locks, and have clear navigation from Utica to St. Louis ?

Mr. VELDE. Yes; and I want to say in that connection that these two grain companies at Pekin have consistently and regularly opposed the removal of the locks at lower stage, to permit of navigation, and that there can be a reasonable amount of excavation in the Illinois River. I think the valley is practically unanimously in favor of this legislation, with only reasonable protection to the people along the river from the overflow, and I understand that the sanitary district is manifesting a disposition to meet them.

The CHAIRMAN. Did we let you finish the reading of your resolutions? You started in to read the resolution as to the time suggested by Chicago for replacement of its water sanitation by some other means. You started to read the article saying that it should be shortened and I do not think you finished it.

Mr. VELDE. I was interrupted. It continues: Your committee have been advised that the work can be done in six years, if pushed to capacity. The limit in the bill should therefore be s or 10 years at the longest. At the expiration of that time the sewage passing into the Illinois River should be at least 90 per cent less than the sewage now discharged into the Illinois River from the sanitary district. For purposes of comparison measurements and estimates should now be made by the War Department to determine the amount of sewage now discharged into the river from the sanitary district.

The CHAIRMAN. You might tell us who signed that, too.

Mr. VELDE. That is signed by Mr. Horton, who is a civil engineer at Peoria.

The CHAIRMAN. And a man of standing in his profession?

Mr. VELDE. Yes, sir. Also by Mr. M. M. Baker, who is the manager of the Holt Manufacturing Co., probably the largest enterprise in Peoria. He is in my county, but his headquarters are in Peoria. And by myself.

Mr. HULL. Mr. Velde, in reference to these treatment plants in Chicago, in order to ask the question I want to say that I have given it a great deal of study, and I have taken into consideration the fact of the amount of money the sanitary district can raise. of that and that is my judgment. Have you any authority that For 20 years that would take up $100,000,000 and would make the whole allotment that they could raise. Now, I have made a study of that and that is may judgment. Have you any authority that they can do it in less time?

The CHAIRMAN. That they could raise the money faster?
Mr. HULL. Or do the work. I will put it both ways.
The CHAIRMAN. He has reported on the work.

Mr. VELDE. I would like to be heard for just a moment on that subject. I think the power of Chicago to raise money at the present time is unlimited, as has been stated here. Their power to increase their tax rate is not dependent upon the Constitution, but upon legislation, and I am satisfied Chicago can get through the legislature anything it wants on that subject.

The CHAIRMAN. So, so far as providing funds for the purposes of expediting the work is concerned, it is your judgment that they can be provided with the money that is necessary?

Mr. VELDE. Yes, sir; but it will raise the tax rate.

The CHAIRMAN. And, second, you stand by the conclusions stated in your written document, that you believe that the work can be done in about six years!

Mr. VELDE. That is based, as I said, simply on hearsay as to matters as to which one is not expert.

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