Senator LODGE. What did it cost in 1895? Mr. BAKER. Three million seven hundred and fifty-four thousand nine hundred and thirty-five dollars and forty-five cents, being still less. It cost, in 1894, 2.55 per cent to collect the internal revenue, costing 2.80 in 1882, showing a diminution during all the time the service was not under the civil service rules. But as soon as it was put under the civil-service rules, namely, the very next year, in 1895, the percentage jumped from 2.55 to 2.62, where it remained for the following year. That is the record of internal revenue. Let us take the customs. In 1882 of customs revenue there were $220,410,730 collected, at a cost of $6,506,359.26, or 2.95 per cent. That was all it cost in 1882. In 1896 there was only $160,021,751.67 collected, but it cost $7,237,796.40 or 4.52 per cent to collect it. In other words, the collection in 1896 was $60,388,978.58 less than it was in 1882, and it cost $731,437.14 more to collect it. Ninety-five per cent of this service has been under the Civil Service Commission all that time. Senator LODGE. Do you think that the cost of collecting the revenue ought to diminish in proportion to the diminution of revenue? Mr. BAKER. No, sir; but I think it ought not to cost more to collect $160,000,000 than it did to collect $220,000,000, or more by $731,437.14 to collect $60,000,000, short, after it had been fourteen years under the civil-service régime than it did before. I asked a question here some time ago in regard to details from the Treasury Department to the commission, and I have prepared a list of the number of employees in the appointment division of the Treasury Department. I find from the Blue Book that there were in 1881, 20; in 1895 there were 24; in 1897 there were 28, and if to that 28 you add the 17 detailed from the Department to assist the Civil Service Commission, it is evident that while the Treasury Department had 20 clerks employed on appointments in 1881, it had 45 in 1897. In the hearings before the subcommittee of the House Committee on Appropriations the Civil Service Commission undertook to give some authority for its details. It quoted one part only of section 4 of the legislative, executive, and judicial appropriation act for the year ending June 30, 1883, 22 Statutes The CHAIRMAN. I suggest to you that we will be glad to hear any facts you have to present, but this is purely a question of law. Mr. BAKER. I simply wish to call the attention of the committee to that section and to where it can be found, 22 Statutes, 255. That is all. TESTIMONY OF W. W. MATTHEWS. W. W. MATTHEWS, being duly sworn, testifies as follows: Mr. MATTHEWS. It is. The CHAIRMAN. I have been informed by Senator Gear that you desire to make a statement to the committee with respect to your appli cation for a transfer from the Interstate Commerce Commission to the Internal Revenue Bureau. Mr. MATTHEWS. I did not tell Senator Gear that. One of the clerks in the office, who is one of Senator Gear's appointees, stated that he would like to know something about the procedure of the civil service in making transfers, as he might want to be transferred. I simply gave it to this clerk, and afterwards told him that I did not know anything about it, as I have handed a written statement to you. No statement that I could make would, I think, be of any benefit to the committee, at all; because my application was withdrawn, and I suppose it is ended. I do not think I could give to the committee anything that would be of value. The CHAIRMAN. It is due the commission that I should ask you one question, because a certain individual has written Senator Gear that you stated that the commission told you if you would take the internalrevenue examination they would coach you, or prepare you, to enable you to answer the questions. Was any proposition of that kind ever made to you by any member of the Civil Service Commission? Mr. MATTHEWS. I suppose, in relation to that, there is nothing more than I was nstructed to call on the Commissioner of Internal Revenue and get certain papers and books from him with which to post myself as to practical gauging and distilling, and all that, which I did. I realized at the time that, as I knew nothing about practical gauging and distilling it, would be of little value to me. The CHAIRMAN. It was nothing more or less than the duty of the commission so to inform you? Mr. MATTHEWS. When I got those books and read up all I could on the internal-revenue business, I realized that I could not pass in a practical way, and as the position held by Featherstone, under Collector Agnew, in Alexandria, then was a clerical one, I waited until Commissioner Forman returned to the city. He said he would recertify me to a clerical position. I think he saw Chairman Procter, of the Civil Service Commission, and telephoned to me to come to the Treasury Department. I went over there and he told me he had seen Procter, and that, under the circumstances, he understood him to say, he would waive an examination in my case, and for me to call at the Civil Service Commission's rooms and I would be certified down there. That was the last part of it. I went up there, and Commissioner Procter said he did not understand it that way; that he still thought the examination was necessary, and Mr. Serven also thought so. I went back to see Commissioner Forman, and he wrote Mr. Procter a personal note, stating to him that he thought and understood in his last conversation that he would waive an examination in my case for the transfer, as I was under the civil service, a clerk in the Interstate Commerce Commission. Mr. Procter said he did not know; but Commissioner Forman then recertified me to the Civil Service Commission to a clerical position. He said he thought that would settle it all, and for me to take this letter to Commissioner Procter. He looked at it and Mr. Serven handled it. If I understand aright, he said if the other Commissioners were willing he would allow the examination to be waived, but some of the other Commissioners were not present at the time, and Mr. Serven, if it was he who was with me, stated to me that I would have to come back again; that the commission would have a meeting that evening and would notify me whether I would have to stand an examination. I went back the next day, I think, or a day or two afterwards, and they said I would have to stand an examination. They said it was noncompetitive. I was advised to attempt to take it, and I submitted for the examination. I do not think the first questions proved any too hard, or anything of that kind, but when they examined me as to practical gauging I saw I could not pass. I simply made the statement in writing that the position to which I was to be assigned, or had been recertified, was a clerical one, and that I understood the examination would be waived. After that I called up there to see if I had passed, but they said I had not, and I saw Mr. Agnew afterwards. Mr. Forman in the meantime had gone out. He said he would see about it in a day or two and have me recertified for another examination. He thought I could take another examination. I saw him two or three days afterwards. He said, "They are going to take all this business-the deputies-from under me, and my Virginia friends want it;" and he said, "You had better drop it." I was willing to drop it by that time. I stopped right there. That is all I know about it. The CHAIRMAN. That ended the matter? Mr. MATTHEWS. Yes, sir. Senator LODGE. They gave you certain books, did they not? Mr. MATTHEWS. The Commissioner of Internal Revenue. I got three over there. I was instructed to get one. I did not have exactly the right one, and I got another one, and then I went and got another one. I have them down at the house now. I did not know any more, so far as gauging is concerned, from what information I could get from the books, than I knew before I read them. I knew a sight less. I did not even attempt to answer. The CHAIRMAN. They handed you series 7, No. 7, which gave you information about gauging! Mr. MATTHEWS. The books simply set out some of the questions, or gave samples. The CHAIRMAN. You need not proceed further. The statement was made that they proposed to coach you. You say that is not true? Mr. MATTHEWs. They said I would find information in the books. I did not know whether I could pass or not. The CHAIRMAN. That will do. Mr. PROCTER. I might add that the manual of instruction is sent to all applicants. Senator LODGE. And specimens of examinations? The CHAIRMAN. I understand that. I have had a good deal to do with the internal-revenue service. The subcommittee adjourned. INDEX. Agricultural Department: Page. Barnes, Almont, testimony of, as to workings of the civil-service law.. 182 795 40 Anti Civil Service League.... 877 Baker, Hon. Henry M., representing the Anti Civil Service League, requests leave to cross-examine witnesses.. 426 Bailey, E. D., chief clerk, testimony of, as to working of Civil Service Commission 570-592, 600-607, 615-624, 632-635, 800-843, 874 Bushby, W. R., clerk, testimony of, as to certifications 797, 883 Doyle, John T., secretary, testimony of.... 876 Examination papers, specimens of.. 513 Harlow, Hon. John B., testimony of, relative to hours of labor. 559 Present force of.. 554 Procter, Hon. John R., testimony of, in answer to Mr. Bailey.. 625, 635-640, 846 Heads of departments, testimony of, relative to civil-service law. Hearing on charges preferred.. Indian affairs. Emergency appointments in.. Indian school service.. Inefficiency of political influence.. Internal Revenue Service... National Civil Service Reform League. Operations of the civil-service law. Patent Office.. Pension agencies. Places excepted from classified service. Presidents, messages of, relative to civil-service law. Promotion regulations.... Public Printer, testimony of. Railway Mail Service Rejection after probation. Right of removal Supervising Architect.... |