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Mr. ZELLER. Which individual?

The CHAIRMAN. James B. Sheean.

Mr. ZELLER. He was secretary to the State central committee of the Administration wing of the Democratic party.

Mr. LAMBERT. This was in April, 1896?

Mr. ZELLER. April 11, 1896.

Mr. LAMBERT. You say you were in attendance at abattoir 5?

Mr. ZELLER. Abattoir 14.

Mr. LAMBERT. Do you know whether any other parties at different abattoirs were also excused that day?

Mr. ZELLER. I do.

Mr. LAMBERT. Do you know how many were excused?

Mr. ZELLER. Six, including myself.

Mr. LAMBERT. Were they excused by Dr. Don C. Ayer, in charge? Mr. ZELLER. I can not say how the balance came to be at the meet ing. I was told to go by the doctor.

Mr. LAMBERT. By the doctor?

Mr. ZELLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. And by him excused?

Mr. ZELLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. Do you know whether anybody else had any authority to excuse them from their work?

Mr. ZELLER. I do not think there was anyone else who had the power to excuse anyone.

Mr. LAMBERT. Do you know whether a substitute was placed in any of the abattoirs to do the work?

Mr. ZELLER. I know I met Mr. Murphy that evening, one of the taggers at abattoir 5, and he told me he had been over to our house and met Dr. Schirmer who had charge of the house, who told him that the work was done, and they were not needed. He and two other taggers went over to do our work.

Mr. LAMBERT. Were the others whom you have mentioned absent as long as you were?

Mr. ZELLER. When I came up town they were at the meeting. I do not know whether they left much before I did.

Mr. LAMBERT. Can you name any of those absent?

Mr. ZELLER. Joseph Butler and Peter Sherlock, who went up with me; Frank Patrick, in the yard; W. K. Jacobs, Philip Smith, abattoir 19.

Mr. LAMBERT. Were they committeemen?

Mr. ZELLER. All except Mr. Sherlock.

Mr. LAMBERT. Do you know anything that was said by Dr. Ayer or Mr. Martin?

Mr. ZELLER. No; I do not.

Mr. LAMBERT. You have told all you know about the meeting on the 11th of April?

Mr. ZELLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. How long had you at that time worked in South Omaha?

Mr. ZELLER. About three years. It was about ten months the last time.

Mr. LAMBERT. Had you ever before been excused for political purposes?

Mr. ZELLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. When before?

Mr. ZELLER. On election day. You mean during the existence of the civil service, I believe?

Mr. LAMBERT. Yes.

Mr. ZELLER. On election day, 1895.

Mr. LAMBERT. Who excused you?

Mr. ZELLER. Charlie Conoyer, one of the clerks in the bureau there. Mr. LAMBERT. Ayer's clerk?

Mr. ZELLER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. For what purpose did he excuse you?

Mr. ZELLER. To act as challenger in the precinct in which I lived. The CHAIRMAN. On behalf of whom?

Mr. ZELLER. The Citizens' ticket. There was a Citizens' ticket at that time.

Mr. LAMBERT. Did you receive any instructions from him other than what you have stated?

Mr. ZELLER. Only in a general way. It was generally understood with James B. Sheean, W. D. McHugh, and Euclid Martin that we were to be there that day, and it would be all right for me to lay off the next day.

Mr. LAMBERT. Who is W. D. McHugh?

Mr. ZELLER. He is a lawyer in this city who was recently appointed United States district judge. He is a very close friend of Secretary Morton, and had practically all the appointments in South Omaha.

Mr. LAMBERT. Do you know whether or not Don C. Ayer and McHugh and Sheean and Martin communicated with each other with reference to what you were to do, etc.?

Mr. ZELLER. I do not know specifically, but Mr. Sheean and Mr. McHugh told me many times when we were called out that they would see the doctor and get us off whenever they wanted us.

Mr. LAMBERT. Meaning Dr. Ayer?

Mr. ZELLER. Yes; Dr. Ayer.

Mr. LAMBERT. Have you since participated in any other matters of a political nature?

Mr. ZELLER. Quite frequently before the civil service went into effect. Mr. LAMBERT. Did you do so by direction or at the request of any of the parties you have named?

Mr. ZELLER. I do not understand the question.

Mr. LAMBERT. Did you do it at the request of Ayer or any of the others, McHugh, Sheean, or Martin?

Mr. ZELLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. Whenever you participated it was at the request of some one of them?

Mr. ZELLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. And in behalf of the party which they represented! Mr. ZELLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. Do you know whether the others who were excused at different times were also detailed to do the same kind of work?

Mr. ZELLER. In talking to me about it they would always tell me the boys they wanted and they mentioned the names. In that way I suppose they communicated with them the same as they did with me. Mr. LAMBERT. At the time you were absent, was your pay deducted! Mr. ZELLER. No, sir; it was not.

Mr. LAMBERT. You drew full pay?
Mr. ZELLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. Without question?
Mr. ZELLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. Do you know whether there was a record of your excuse?

Mr. ZELLER. I do not.

Mr. LAMBERT. Were you ever detailed to do political work other than that you have mentioned?

Mr. ZELLER. I was not.

Mr. LAMBERT. Were you ever requested to do political work other than that you have mentioned?

Mr. ZELLER. No, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. Did you have a rating of the taggers, the stock examiners, and so forth; what is called a rating?

Mr. ZELLER. I think there was a rating after we were discharged. Mr. LAMBERT. Ordinarily, after you went there, was it the custom to prepare a rating or grading?

Mr. ZELLER. It was not.

Mr. LAMBERT. You say they did, as a matter of fact, since your discharge, prepare a rating?

Mr. ZELLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. Did you ever see the rating?

Mr. ZELLER. I saw it at the last investigation.

Mr. LAMBERT. Do you know what was your position in the rating? Mr. ZELLER. My name was not there at all.

Mr. LAMBERT. Yours did not come in?

Mr. ZELLER. No, sir; they took the rating after we were discharged. Mr. LAMBERT. Do you know whether or not your name appeared? Mr. ZELLER. It did not appear.

Mr. LAMBERT. It was not the custom to make any rating?

Mr. ZELLER. Not prior to that time.

Mr. LAMBERT. Was Dr. Don C. Ayer in a position so that he might properly grade or rate you?

Mr. ZELLER. I do not think so.

Mr. LAMBERT. Did he know specifically the kind of work you were doing?

Mr. ZELLER. He knew the kind of work, but he would not see us once a week, perhaps.

Mr. LAMBERT. Did he ever rate you or criticise the work?

Mr. ZELLER. Never.

Mr. LAMBERT. Was it any part of his duty to do so?

Mr. ZELLER. I presume it was. If anything was wrong, I presume he had the right to criticise.

Mr. LAMBERT. Did he do so?

Mr. ZELLER. Each house had its chief to look after the house, and of course it depended upon him to look after the work in the house.

Mr. LAMBERT. He was the only one really cognizant of the work you were doing?

Mr. ZELLER. Yes; the one stationed at the house.

Mr. LAMBERT. And any rating made by any person other than that chief would not be reliable?

Mr. ZELLER. I should not think so.

Mr. LAMBERT. No one else was in a position to know?

Mr. ZELLER. No, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. What applies to you applies likewise to all who were discharged at that time?

Mr. ZELLER. Yes.

Mr. LAMBERT. You heard the testimony of some of the other witnesses here?

Mr. ZELLER. I heard all except Miss Fahey and Miss Hogan. Mr. LAMBERT. You heard the testimony with respect to the conver sation between Dr. White and Mrs. Bushnell in the department! Mr. ZELLER. Yes, sir; I did.

Mr. LAMBERT. That was on election day?

Mr. ZELLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. Did you hear the conversation to which they have testified?

Mr. ZELLER. I heard part of it.

Mr. LAMBERT. State to the committee just what you heard of that conversation.

Mr. ZELLER. I left the abattoir that day about half-past 11. They did not kill that day. Only a few sheep had to be tagged. After I got through with those I went up and reported, and it was raining outside, and I went upstairs a while to talk to Dr. White. As I was leaving Dr. White asked me whether I had read about John P. Irish and his train, where they had killed a man the day before. "Oh," he said, “I wonder how John P. Irish and his crowd feel after running over that man yesterday afternoon." I said: "Oh, I do not suppose they care much; they have no feeling." Just then Mrs. Bushnell jumped up and took a step or two toward Dr. White. She said: "I want you to understand I had a brother on that train. That is getting pretty close to home." Just then I walked out, and I do not know what else occurred.

Mr. LAMBERT. Had you been up in the department frequently before that time?

Mr. ZELLER. Quite frequently.

Mr. LAMBERT. Did you ever discuss politics during working hours! Mr. ZELLER. I never discussed politics. We discussed politics once in a while; talked about it in a general way.

Mr. LAMBERT. During working hours?

Mr. ZELLER. During the recess. I remember when Bourke Cockran was here. Of course we spoke about that the next morning or at noon. whenever it was. We spoke about the shameful way they treated the Secretary in hissing him. We talked about politics in that way.

Mr. LAMBERT. Did you ever state your politics to Dr. Ayer?
Mr. ZELLER. No; but then I suppose he knew.

Mr. LAMBERT. Did you ever express yourself politically before him!
Mr. ZELLER. No.

Mr. LAMBERT. You never heard him express himself?

Mr. ZELLER. No.

Mr. LAMBERT. You never heard him express himself in reference to Dr. White, or any of the discharged people?

Mr. ZELLER. No, sir. I saw very little of Dr. Ayer during the last time I was down there.

Mr. LAMBERT. Were you called on when Shelden was here to make a statement in your own behalf or on behalf of any of the parties discharged?

Mr.ZELLER. No, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. Did you know he was here for that purpose!

Mr. ZELLER. No, sir; not until the time he left.

Mr. LAMBERT. Did he talk to you, or did anyone for him ever talk

to you about the matter?

Mr. ZELLER. No, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. Where is abattoir 14?

Mr. ZELLER. It is about three blocks from the microscopical department. It is a little southeast of the Delmonico House. Mr. LAMBERT. What packing house?

Mr. ZELLER. The Hammond packing house, in South Omaha. Mr. LAMBERT. How long had you been at abattoir 14 before they discharged you?

Mr. ZELLER. I began work there the 1st of July, 1895, and worked there continually until I was discharged.

Mr. LAMBERT. As tagger?

Mr. ZELLER. As tagger.

Mr. LAMBERT. Did you ever have any complaints of any sort made against you, either from the packing house or from any of the officers of the bureau?

Mr. ZELLER. No, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. If you had been inefficient or neglectful in the discharge of your duties was there anyone to complain?

Mr. ZELLER. The doctor in charge of the house was in a position to complain.

Mr. LAMBERT. He would have known it?

Mr. ZELLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. Would the house also have known it?

Mr. ZELLER. The house also would have known it. If any quarter had gone out that was not tagged we would have soon heard about it. Mr. LAMBERT. You know of no reason at all for, and you know of no act of yours which would warrant, your discharge on the ground of neg lect of duty.

Mr. ZELLER. None whatever.

Mr. LAMBERT. You were always prompt?

Mr. ZELLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. And remained, throughout, so?

Mr. ZELLER. Yes, sir.

Mr. WILLIAM HOLMES. May I be permitted to ask a question?
The CHAIRMAN. Certainly.

Mr. HOLMES. I will ask you whether in the performance of your duties you met frequently Messrs. George Seay and William Holmes, at that time two employees of the Bureau of Animal Industry?

Mr. ZELLER. I did.

Mr. HOLMES. How frequently during that time would you meet those two parties?

Mr. ZELLER. I would see George Seay every day and William Holmes I would see nearly every day.

Mr. HOLMES. I want to ask you if you ever heard any complaint about the manner in which George Seay and William Holmes performed their duties?

Mr. ZELLER. I never heard any complaint whatever.

Mr. HOLMES. I will ask you if you ever heard any remarks made by the chief in charge of abattoir 14 at that time; whether that chief at that time, or around about that time, ever made any remark about the manner in which they did their work; whether it was satisfactory? Mr. ZELLER. Only in a general way. He always spoke very highly of Mr. Seay and Mr. Holmes.

TESTIMONY OF DR. WILLIAM S. WHITE, RECALLED.

Dr. WILLIAM S. WHITE, being recalled, testified as follows:

Mr. LAMBERT. Are you acquainted with John Zeller, who was discharged at or about the time you were, for alleged neglect of duty? Dr. WHITE. Yes, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. Were you in a position to know the character of the work which Zeller was doing at that time?

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