Mr. LAMBERT. Yes; do you know what basis it was graded on-100? Mr. BEAL. Yes; it was made on the basis of 100, and mine was only 50.

Mr. LAMBERT. Fifty out of 100?

Mr. BEAL. Yes, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. You never had any complaint from anyone about your work, except that you were too strict?

Mr. BEAL. I did not have any complaint of that kind, except the superintendent asked me a couple of different times if I did not think certain meat could be cut up and used. I told him so far as I was concerned I would leave it to Dr. Ayer; to let the hog that was condemned hang, and let Dr. Ayer look at it the next day and pass judgment on it. Mr. LAMBERT. Were you engaged in post-mortem or ante-mortem examinations?

Mr. BEAL. Both. I had to do the post-mortem and the ante-mortem examination of hogs and cattle. The tagger assisted some with cattle, if I was on the hog floor.

Mr. LAMBERT. In each instance when you condemned a carcass and it was referred to Dr. Ayer, he sustained the position you had taken in the matter?

Mr. BEAL. In each and every instance, although at one time it seems that the inspectors in the yard passed a cow that had recently had a calf and the calf died. They drove the cow down there to the yard. It was on Saturday night. It was a very wild animal and they could not milk it. It was in perfectly healthy condition. I permitted them to kill it when it really ought to have stood a certain length of time. Dr. Ayer said I did right, but not to do it again without his permission. Mr. LAMBERT. That is the only time an exception was taken to the way in which you did your work?

Mr. BEAL. Yes, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. You were promoted from tagger to stock inspector? Mr. BEAL. I was promoted from tagger to stock examiner.

Dr. WHITE. Did I ever visit your house during working hours when

I was working in the microscopical office?

Mr. BEAL. No, sir.

Dr. WHITE. What time was your wife sick when I attended her? Mr. BEAL. It was in the middle of the night.

Mr. LAMBERT. How long have you been engaged in the work of examining meats?

Mr. BEAL. Somewhat over twenty years.

Mr. LAMBERT. Have you been constantly so engaged?

Mr. BEAL. Yes, sir; and in the wholesale meat business.

Mr. LAMBERT. Do you know how long Dr. Ayer has been engaged

in such work, if at all?

Mr. BEAL. No, sir; I do not.

Mr. LAMBERT. Do you know anything about his qualifications and competency to pass upon a post-mortem or ante-mortem examination, especially in hogs?

Mr. BEAL. I do not know, but at one time we had a lot of sheep in the yard. I was immediately under Dr. Everett. He wanted to condemn the sheep on account of their being scabby. The sheep had had the scab, but the scab was cured, and I told him I thought we had better not do that; it would put us to a great deal of trouble. The sheep were all right, if they could go out to grass. I said they were very thin, but that they would come out all right; that I had handled thousamis of such sheep. He insisted on condemning them. Dr. Ayer

happened to come along. I called him. I said, "Dr. Everett is going to condemn these sheep, and I do not think he ought to do so, because the scab is cured, and if the sheep could go out on grass they will make good mutton." He talked very insultingly to me. He said for me to do what Dr. Everett told me. He did condemn the sheep then, but they were released—that is, the parties who had the sheep made a complaint, and it was referred to Washington, and the tags were taken off. The sheep were sent off and came back fat three months afterwards. Mr. LAMBERT. They were not dipped, as they call it?

Mr. BEAL. No, sir; there was no dipping whatever. The scab was cured before they came to the yard. I thought in that case he did not know much about his business. Otherwise I do not know anything about his qualifications. Then another time we had instructions to condemn pregnant sows. We got to overdoing it. They got to con demning a great many that were not pregnant. They got to complaining all over the State, but Dr. Everett seemed to stick to it. I went to Dr. Ayer to know if there were any new instructions from Washington. The first instructions were sent to me, because when the inspec tion in the stock yards first started I was then a tagger, and they had no stock examiners. Dr. Blackwell was chief, and as I knew something about the stock business, he asked me if I would go down and take charge of it. Mr. Campbell and I had charge there for two months before there were any stock examiners here. Then finally, when the inspector was appointed, he came and took charge of it. In fact, he got to overdoing it. The superintendent of the stock yards placed a man for a whole month at the place where the stock were killed, and found that 60 per cent of the animals condemned were not pregnant or diseased. I went to Dr. Ayer and said, "Are there any new instruetions from Washington as to the limit in condemning?" He told me that was not for me to know; that I was to do what Everett told me. Mr. LAMBERT. You think of nothing besides what you have already stated, either of a political nature or as to the inefficiency of the parties! Mr. BEAL. No, sir.

Mr. LAMBERT. You stated, I believe, in your remarks just now, that you worked with Mr. Campbell?

Mr. BEAL. Mr. Campbell and I were there for the first two months when it was first inaugurated, before these inspectors-that is, the men who have diplomas-were appointed. Dr. Blackwell was chief at that time. Dr. Ayer was up at the Hammond house.

Mr. LAMBERT. Will you state the character of the work Mr. Campbell is qualified to do and did do?

Mr. BEAL. Mr. Campbell seemed to do his work in a satisfactory

manner.

Mr. LAMBERT. Have you worked with him since that time?

Mr. BEAL. No, sir; I have not.

Mr. LAMBERT. You have not been in a position where you would know anything about his work?

Mr. BEAL. No; I am not in a position to know.

Mr. LAMBERT. Except what you would hear?

Mr. BEAL. That is all.

At 4 o'clock p. m. the subcommittee adjourned until to-morrow, Friday, October 22, 1897, at 10 o'clock a. m.

OMAHA, NEB., October 22, 1897. The subcommittee met at 10 o'clock a. m., pursuant to adjournment. I.J. Dunn, esq., appeared as counsel for Miss Mary Dalton, Miss Mary Flynn, Mr. John Zeller, Mr. William Holmes, and Mr. James Murphy.

TESTIMONY OF DR. DON C. AYER.

Dr. DON C. AYER was duly sworn.

The CHAIRMAN. At the request of Dr. White I have asked you to come before the committee and make a statement as to what you know with respect to the dismissal of the various parties whose testimony we have here.

Dr. AYER. They were dismissed by Mr. Morton for neglect of duty. The CHAIRMAN. What is your present occupation?

Dr. AYER. I am inspector in charge of the meat inspection, Bureau of Animal Industry, South Omaha, Nebr.

The CHAIRMAN. How long have you been connected with the department?

Dr. AYER. Four years the 10th of August; over four years.

The CHAIRMAN. Give me the number of parties dismissed by you since you assumed control of the department?

Dr. AYER. There have been quite a number of dismissals and reinstatements. I could not give the dates of any of them or tell you the number, unless I went to my office and looked up all the records.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you please give me the causes for which the parties in question were removed?

Dr. AYER. There have been some removals since I have had charge for causes which I know not.

The CHAIRMAN. Please give us the names of the parties to whom you refer?

Dr. AYER. Those were the people removed about three years ago. I do not think it cuts any figure in this investigation.

The CHAIRMAN. I speak only of those who were removed since your department was placed under the civil service.

Dr. AYER. Dr. White, Mr. Holmes, Miss Dalton, and Miss Flynn. The CHAIRMAN. Were any of them removed for offensive partisanship?

Dr. AYER. Not that I know of.

The CHAIRMAN. Why did the Department remove Miss Flynn?
Dr. AYER. I can not tell you.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you remember when your department was classified?

Dr. AYER. Two years the 1st of July, I think; somewhere about that time.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you been engaged in any political work since that date. If so, please state the character of it.

Dr. AYER. I am not a politician and do no political work.

The CHAIRMAN. You do none whatever?

Dr. AYER. None whatever. I never was a politician.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you had any instructions from Mr. Morton or anyone else to participate in the primaries or other political meetings? Dr. AYER. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Nothing of that kind?

Dr. AYER. No, sir.

7658- -8

The CHAIRMAN. How long have you known Dr. White!

Dr. AYER. Since my connection with the Bureau; four years and

more.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know his general character as a man?
Dr. AYER. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. What is it?

Dr. AYER. All right, for anything I know.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you mean by that to say that it is good?

Dr. AYER. Yes; so far as I know.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know anything as to his qualifications? Dr. AYER. As a physician?

The CHAIRMAN. As a physician.

Dr. AYER. No, I do not. I never employed him.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you have occasion while he was employed in the department to examine his work so as to determine whether or not he is an efficient man?

Dr. AYER. Yes, sir; his work came before me every day.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the result of your examination?

Dr. AYER. In many cases and many times his reports were incorrect and had to be corrected. I sometimes forwarded them to the Bureau without giving them close enough examination, and got straightened up myself at times-several times. Finally we made the examination so close as not to be jacked up by the Department, and went through his reports very carefully. Many times they were incorrect then, and they were taken back to the Doctor for his correction, and he corrected them.

The CHAIRMAN. Were the mistakes of frequent occurrence?
Dr. AYER. They were.

The CHAIRMAN. If I understand you, then, your idea is that he was not competent to discharge the duties of the office which he held? Dr. AYER. No, sir; I do not think he was.

The CHAIRMAN. How long did you serve with the Doctor? Were you there during his entire service?

Dr. AYER. He was there some little time before I was. I do not know just how long.

The CHAIRMAN. Did the grade of his work improve during his incumbency and while you were there?

Dr. AYER. I do not think there was ever much change in it.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you have occasion to examine the work of Miss Flynn?

Dr. AYER. Directly, no.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not understand the answer.

Dr. AYER. You asked me if I had occasion to examine Miss Flynn's work. Miss Flynn worked under Dr. White. It was his duty to examine the work there and then to send his work down to me. It was examined as a whole.

The CHAIRMAN. You know nothing as to her qualifications for the duties of the place?

Dr. AYER. No; I could not explain what I know, or what I think I know.

The CHAIRMAN. Sir?

Dr. AYER. I could not make an explanation. I will say "no" in regard to the lady.

The CHAIRMAN. We shall be glad to hear anything you may have to say about it. If you know anything, we should like to hear it and to know what it is. What is her general character?

Dr. AYER. Miss Flynn's?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Dr. AYER. Good, so far as I know.

The CHAIRMAN. How long was she employed in the bureau?

Dr. AYER. I could not personally say just how long, but quite a considerable time.

The CHAIRMAN. Were any complaints against her lodged with you during her employment?

Dr. AYER. No; there would be no one to lodge them except Dr. White, and he never lodged any.

The CHAIRMAN. What became of the reports she made?

Dr. AYER. They were forwarded to Washington.

The CHAIRMAN. To Washington?

Dr. AYER. Yes, sir; to the Department.

The CHAIRMAN. Did they pass through your office?

Dr. AYER. They did.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you ever examine her reports?

Dr. AYER. I looked them over, the same as I did all others, in a casual way. They are so extensive that it is impossible for a man to examine minutely into everything each day.

The CHAIRMAN. How long have you known Miss Dalton?

Dr. AYER. About the same length of time that I have known Miss Flynn.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know her general character?

Dr. AYER. I know nothing against it. I will tell you I do not live near enough to them

The CHAIRMAN. You can state whether or not you know her character?

Dr. AYER. I do not know anything at all against the lady.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not like the statement to go into the record in that way.

Dr. AYER. Tell me how you want me to answer?

The CHAIRMAN. If you know her character, I desire that you shall say you do, and then I will ask what it is.

Dr. AYER. In a general way, yes.

The CHAIRMAN. The general character of an individual is the estimation in which he or she is held in the community by the citizens. Have you had occasion to examine her work?

Dr. AYER. No more than Miss Flynn's; in the same way.

The CHAIRMAN. You know nothing, then, as to her qualifications? Dr. AYER. No; not that I could explain.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know anything about the charges to the effect that Dr. White neglected his duty by practicing medicine while connected with the Department?

Dr. AYER. The doctor had a private office in the Government rooms there, and attended patients there, and went out with his grip to make calls whenever he was called. He did so many times to my knowledge, and many times he could have gone when I did not know it, because my time in the office is very short in the forepart of the day, and sometimes it requires nearly three-fourths of my day outside of the office. My work there is kept up by the clerks.

The CHAIRMAN. Did he make such calls during office hours?

Dr. AYER. He did; at any time. Whenever he got a call he went and attended to it, so far as I know.

The CHAIRMAN. Was it necessary for him to remain there all the