Mr. DUNN. What do you know as to his being prompt and on hand? Mr. SHERLOCK. Mr. Zeller was considered the best man in the department. He was always prompt. He never was absent. He was punctual. He did his work, and he was considered the best man, generally, in the department.

Mr. DUNN. Did you ever hear Dr. Ayer or anybody else complain of his work?

Mr. SHERLOCK. No, sir.

Mr. DUNN. He went to the committee meeting with you!

Mr. SHERLOCK. Yes, sir.

Mr. DUNN. At the same time?

Mr. SHERLOCK. Yes, sir.

Mr. DUNN. Do you know whether he was a regular committeeman, or received a proxy?

Mr. SHERLOCK. He was a regular committeeman. I was the only one who had a proxy.

Mr. DUNN. You represented a dead man!

Mr. SHERLOCK. Yes, sir.

Mr. DUNN. Do you know Mr. George Seay!

Mr. SHERLOCK. Yes, sir. I was in the same office.

Mr. DUNN. What kind of a man is he?

Mr. SHERLOCK. He was a very punctual man and is very quiet. He had no interference with anyone. He did his work.

Mr. DUNN. Do you know Mr. James Murphy?

Mr. SHERLOCK. Yes, sir. I worked with him for several months. Mr. DUNN. What do you know about Mr. Murphy's efficiency and as to his being on hand?

Mr. SHERLOCK. Mr. Murphy while I was with him was all right. He was punctual and did his work. We really did four men's work. He was a partner of mine for nearly a year.

Mr. DUNN. Did Dr. Ayer ever talk to you about the work or complain of it?

Mr. SHERLOCK. I very seldom saw Dr. Ayer. He very seldom came near us. Once in a while I would see him when the horse was sick at Hammond's, coming over to attend it professionally. From the window I would see him around the barn there.

Mr. DUNN. Do you know that Dr. Ayer attended to his professional duties as a horse doctor during business hours?

Mr. SHERLOCK. I guess it did not cut any figure. I guess he caught everything going.

Mr. DUNN. Did you ever see him at Hammond's barn?

Mr. SHERLOCK. The bookkeeper met me one morning-one of the Hammond men-and asked me if Ayer had come down. He said, "I want him, as one of the horses has the colic." He went up to the office. That was at 9 o'clock.

Mr. DUNN. Did you, personally, ever see Dr. Ayer attending to that kind of work during the office hours of the department?

Mr. SHERLOCK. I saw him come out and go into the barn; the Hammond packing-house barn.

Mr. DUNN. How far was that from his office?

Mr. SHERLOCK. About a block. We were in the window. We used to sit in the window and we could see him.

Mr. DUNN. Did Dr. Ayer ever complain to you of your work in the department?

Mr. SHERLOCK. Not that I know of. He never did to me.
Mr. DUNN. Or to anybody else?

Mr. SHERLOCK. Not that I know of.

Mr. DUNN. Under whose direction were you?

Mr. SHERLOCK. Schirmer and Blackwell.

Mr. DUNN. Did either of them ever complain or file any complaint against you, so far as you know?

Mr. SHERLOCK. No, sir; not that I know of.

Mr. DUNN. Was any complaint of your work ever made to you by anybody?

Mr. SHERLOCK. Not that I know of.

Mr. DUNN. You were there how long?

Mr. SHERLOCK. A couple of years; two years and a half, or something like that. I desire to state that when Mr. Huston was here I was called in the interest of these ladies and gentlemen. I knew that an injustice had been done to them, and I thought I would go up and testify. It was at the hotel in the evening, and I went up into the room. I stopped in the hall to talk to Mr. Murphy, and while we were talking Mr. Ayer and Mr. Shelden, the special agent from Washington came down stairs and they said, "You had Ayer put out of the room." We did not know what was meant. Mr. Murphy went up stairs to see what was meant. He ran out on the sidewalk to catch them. They reported us and we were furloughed.

Mr. DUNN. You testified in the investigation before Mr. Huston, and you were called by the parties seeking investigation by the Civil Serv ice Commission?

Mr. SHERLOCK. Yes, sir.

Mr. DUNN. How long after that was it before you were discharged! Mr. SHERLOCK. Not long. We were suspended. We were first notified to send in our resignations, but we did not do that.

Mr. DUNN. You were then suspended?

Mr. SHERLOCK. Yes, sir; we were then suspended.

Mr. DUNN. You are still furloughed?

Mr. SHERLOCK. Yes, sir.

Mr. DUNN. Indefinitely?

Mr. SHERLOCK. Yes, sir; indefinitely. I am not seeking the position back. I do not wish to go back at all, but I wish to be let out right. Mr. DUNN. Do you know Mr. Holmes?

Mr. SHERLOCK. Yes, sir.

Mr. DUNN. Did he work in the same department with you!

Mr. SHERLOCK. Yes, sir; at Hammond's.

Mr. DUNN. State whether or not you had an opportunity to observe if Mr. Holmes attended to his work and was on hand.

Mr. SHERLOCK. I had an opportunity of seeing Mr. Holmes every day. We would all meet in the same office.

Mr. DUNN. Did you hear the testimony of Dr. Ayer that Mr. Holmes used to come down at 9 or 10 o'clock in the morning and very often be away from his duties?

Mr. SHERLOCK. That was the way with all of us. same thing.

Mr. DUNN. What do you mean?

They all did the

Mr. SHERLOCK. When there was not work to do when they would commence to kill at 12 o'clock-he would report at 9 or 10.

Mr. DUNN. Would Mr. Holmes be notified by the man in charge!

Mr. SHERLOCK. He would receive word the night before that they would not kill until 12 o'clock.

Mr. DUNN. He would receive information to that effect?

Mr. SHERLOCK. It was placed on the blackboard at what time they would cominence.

Mr. DUNN. So that whenever he came at 10 o'clock it was because he was notified that he did not need to come any earlier?

Mr. SHERLOCK. Yes, sir; that is right.

Mr. DUNN. When work was going on and he ought to be there, did you ever know him to be absent?

Mr. SHERLOCK. No, sir; I never missed him.

Mr. DUNN. Did you ever hear anybody make any complaint of his inefficiency?

Mr. SHERLOCK. No, sir. I have always heard Dr. Schirmer say that he had a good man in Holmes, and also that he had a good man in Seay.

Mr. DUNN. Do you know Mr. Guy?

Mr. SHERLOCK. Yes, sir; he was a stock inspector.

Mr. DUNN. Did you ever know him to be absent or negligent?

Mr. SHERLOCK. No, sir.

Mr. DUNN. What was his standing and reputation among the men for efficiency?

Mr. SHERLOCK. His standing was very good.

Mr. DUNN. Did Mr. Guy seem to be a very capable man?

Mr. SHERLOCK. A very capable man, indeed.

Mr. DUNN. That is all, unless you have something more to state. Mr. SHERLOCK. I have not.

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE H. GUY.

GEORGE H. GUY, being duly sworn, testified as follows:

Mr. DUNN. Where is your residence?

Mr. GUY. 1913 St. Marys avenue.

Mr. DUNN. In the city of Omaha?

Mr. GUY. Yes, sir.

Mr. DUNN. How long have you lived in this county?

Mr. GUY. I have lived here since 1868.

Mr. DUNN. State when you went into the employ of the Government at South Omaha?

Mr. GUY. It was about October 11, 1894, I think.

Mr. DUNN. You may state how long you were furloughed at any time? Mr. GUY. I was furloughed on the 1st of August; no, suspended. Mr. DUNN. Of what year?

Mr. GUY. This year.

Mr. DUNN. For what cause?

Mr. Guy. My rating was so low that the Government said they could not stand it. I never saw the rating. Here is the letter from the Department. I asked Dr. Ayer why it was. He said he knew nothing about it any more than I did. I could not get any information from him. I wrote to the Department, and this is the answer I got.

The CHAIRMAN. Did he state to you that he had refused to give or had not given the Department any information with respect to your rating?

Mr. GUY. He told me he knew nothing about it any more than I did. I was surprised. I asked the doctor why it was and he said "I know nothing about it any more than you do."

The CHAIRMAN. Did he state positively that he had not given the Department your rating?

7658-13

Mr. GUY. He did not say anything about the rating. I said, "Why is it?" and he said, "I know nothing whatever about it."

Mr. DUNN. The question is, did he say to you that he had not made a report to the Government regarding you?

Mr. GUY. He did not.

Mr. DUNN. He said nothing about the matter at all, except that he absolutely knew nothing about it?

Mr. GUY That is all.

Mr. DUNN. Did you ask him at any time who made your rating? Mr. GUY. No, sir; I did not.

Mr. DUNN. Do you know what rating was referred to-the first or second rating?

Mr. GUY. I do not know.

Mr. DUNN. Do you know what the rating was?

Mr. GUY. I never knew.

Mr. DUNN. Do you know whether or not you were ever rated? Mr. GUY. I do not know. Yes, I do, for some of the men who were at the investigation said they saw it, and I asked them what it was, and they said they did not remember. So I never knew how I was rated. Mr. DUNN. Under whose immediate direction were you?

Mr. GUY. I was under that of Dr. Blackwell.

Mr. DUNN. Do you know whether Dr. Blackwell ever made any complaint against you?

Mr. GUY. I know he never did. I am satisfied he never did, because he was always well pleased.

Mr. DUNN. Do you know whether any complaint was ever made against you?

Mr. GUY. There was no complaint whatever from Dr. Ayer or anybody else.

Mr. DUNN. You have no knowledge as to how or through whom the complaint was made to the Department?

Mr. GUY. I suppose through Dr. Ayer, although I do not know, because he never was very friendly to me at any time.

Mr. DUNN. Do you know why he was not?

Mr. GUY. I do not. I always treated him with the greatest respect and as well as I knew how. He thought, perhaps, I knew too much for him or more than he did.

Mr. DUNN. You may state whether or not you had a conversation with Dr. Ayer at one time regarding the inspection in which he said to you that he, Dr. Ayer, had taught Mr. Holmes and somebody else how to inspect, and for you to go over to them and learn something about inspection.

Mr. GUY. One day I met him in the hall. I was coming away. We got through killing at noon, and I put in my report and started out. He met me in the hall, and he said, "Guy, I instructed Mr. Holmes and Mr. Jacobs, and if you think best, you might go over when you have leisure some time and see them and perhaps you could learn something from them." I told him, "Doctor, I do not think it worth while, for they both came into the department after I did, and when they went to work on the floor examining hogs they both came over to see me and I gave them all the instructions I knew how." Therefore I could learn nothing from them, and I did not think it worth while to go there. Mr. DUNN. So far as you know were there any complaints at all made of your work?

Mr. GUY. No, sir.

Mr. DUNN. No other person than Dr. Blackwell had immediate charge of your department?

Mr. GUY. No, sir.

Mr. DUNN. Did you see Mr. Holmes and Mr. Seay in the performance of their duties?

Mr. GUY. I have seen them several times.

Mr. DUNN. From your knowledge of their work, and so far as you could judge, state whether or not they appeared to be neglecting the work or to be incompetent in any way.

Mr. GUY. I do not think they did, so far as anything I ever saw is concerned.

Mr. DUNN. Do you know Mr. Murphy?

Mr. GUY. Yes, sir.

Mr. DUNN. He was a tagger in the same building?

Mr. GUY. Yes, sir.

Mr. DUNN. Did you have an opportunity to see when he came to work and when he went away, and whether he was drunk?

Mr. GUY. Yes, sir; I did.

Mr. DUNN. Do you remember whether or not he was absent when he should have been at work?

Mr. GUY. I do not know of any such time.

Mr. DUNN. What do you know of his efficiency?

Mr. GUY. I should say it was good.

Mr. DUNN. You never heard anybody complain of him?

Mr. GUY. No, sir; they always did brag on his work, that he could do more than any other man in the house in his line.

At 5 o'clock and 20 minutes p. m. the subcommittee took a recess until 7.30 o'clock p. m.

AFTER RECESS.

At the expiration of the recess the subcommittee resumed its session.

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE G. SEAY.

GEORGE G. SEAY, being duly sworn, testified as follows:

Mr. DUNN. What time did you begin work in the Department of Animal Industry at South Omaha, in this State?

Mr. SEAY. On the 25th of March, 1894.

Mr. DUNN. In what capacity?

Mr. SEAY. As stock examiner.

Mr. DUNN. Under whose immediate supervision were you at the time? Mr. SEAY. That of Don C. Ayer.

Mr. DUNN. He was at that time in charge of what house or abattoir? Mr. SEAY. He was the chief in charge.

Mr. DUNN. Who was in charge of the particular house in which you were working?

Mr. SEAY. Dr. Schirmer.

Mr. DUNN. You remained there how long under the direction of Dr. Schirmer?

Mr. SEAY. Until I was discharged, on the 15th of December, 1896. Mr. DUNN. From whom did you receive the notice of discharge? Mr. SEAY. I received it from Mr. Ayer, or at least from his office. It was handed to me.

Mr. D NN. What kind of a notice was it? Was it written?