These men, Mr. Chairman, I would like to introduce individually and let them present their own testimony at this time. Mr. GRANGER. I take it their statements will be short. First is Mr. Edwin V. Smith, a lumberman of North Garden, Va. He is a mill operator who has consistently cooperated with this particular program, and I am pleased to have him present to testify at this time. STATEMENT OF EDWIN E. SMITH, NORTH GARDEN, VA. Mr. SMITH. As Mr. Custard told you, I am a saw-mill operator, not too big and not too small. I have a production of about 2,000,000 feet a year. I would say it is pretty representative of the mills in Virginia. I was one of the first people to start to work with the Forest Service on selective cutting, and it is one of the few things I have ever found that is of benefit to everybody concerned. I have not found any disadvantage at all. It certainly does lessen the opportunity of an informed millman taking advantage of an informed timber owner. If you have a timberland examination the man knows how much timber he has, and it takes the chances out. It has been of great benefit to me because since I have started cutting entirely by selective cutting I have not had to hunt for any stumpage. People have come to me to sell the timber. I do not know much that I could say that has not been said here already except that it seems to me they are putting too much stress on the dollars. I think the thing that should be considered is the health of the people. I do not think that there is anything that does as good a job in preventing erosion as our forests and timberland. I know that in Albemarle County the physical condition of our woodland is better today than it was 10 years ago. In the meantime we have taken out quite a bit of timber. That is all I have to say. Mr. HALL. May I ask one question, Mr. Chairman? Mr. Hall. You speak of selective cutting. I assume by that you mean on certain widths of tree trunk, where you do not cut anything less than that width? Mr. SMITH. By selective cutting, I mean this: The foresters go through and blaze the tree. They blaze the tree high and low. On the lower blaze they have an axe with a die on it. In the blaze they hit the ax on the tree and print the initials "VF," which not only shows that the tree has been blazed but it gives the timber owner a chance to check up on whether there have been any flagrant violations in timber cutting of marked timber. Mr. HALL. Then when the sawyer goes through I assume he cuts over the trees that are marked? Mr. SMITH. Cuts over the trees that are marked. These gentlemen in marketing their timber do not go in to take out any certain amount of timber or to cut trees down to a certain size. They take out all the culls and all the undesirable wood. Mr. HALL. Do you find any of the larger trees that have spoiled parts to them? Mr. SMITH. Yes. Mr. HALL. What do you do in that case, just take those trees down and cut them up for fire wood? Mr. SMITH. No; in the majority of cases part of the culled trees are of some use. The boys do not have too bad a job on that. In a few instances they have gotten a little too high, and in a few instances they might have been a little too low, but their job has been very creditable. Mr. HALL. I suppose even on the so-called bad trees that you can salvage some wood from them? Mr. SMITH. That is right. Mr. HALL. Thank you. Mr. GRANGER. Thank you very much for your statement. Mr. CUSTARD. Mr. Chairman, if you will permit me, I would like to amplify one thing along the line of the questioning. When the foresters make an estimate of a given tract of timber, it is done on an individual tree basis whereby each tree is measured both for diameter and height, and the probable volume of that tree is then accounted for. Mr. J. R. Tinsley, a forest-land owner and farmer from Rapidan, Va., is the next man I would like to present. STATEMENT OF J. R. TINSLEY, RAPIDAN, VA. Mr. TINSLEY. Mr. Chairman, I am not very much of a timber man. I have a few acres of land down in Culpeper County and we are trying to raise a few black cattle to compete with those you have in the picture on the wall. We do have a few acres of timber, probably 700. We have sold some timber under two or three different systems. In the last system we had the Virginia Forestry Service go in there and cruise this timber and mark it up for us. Under the other system, when the men got through cutting they took a trip to California after they got so much money. I do not think they are going to do it this time. We are very much pleased with the type of work that these fellows gave us. If you do not think they are really working, I dare any of you to get out in the woods with them for a little while. They really work, and they not only mark this timber up for you, but they will come back and check the stumps after this timber is cut for these blazings and see that the men who are doing the cutting are doing a good job and are not throwing the trees all across the timber that you wanted to save, and so on. I think, gentlemen, it is a very valuable service. I think it will be increasingly valuable all the time, because with the high cost of living people are very prone when they get hard up for money to sell their timber to the first man who comes along. If they are educated and know about this service I think they will use it, and I think you gentlemen would do well to give it thorough consideration. Mr. GRANGER. Thank you very much for your statement. Mr. CUSTARD. Another timberland owner from Albemarle County, Charlottesville, Mr. J. R. Wingfield. STATEMENT OF J. R. WINGFIELD, CHARLOTTESVILLE, VA. Mr. WINGFIELD. Mr. Chairman, I am not only a landowner and have a little forest land, but I am also a teacher of a veterans' agricultural class. As the attention of these men and other citizens of Albemarle County is called to the value of farm woodlots they are commencing to appreciate their value. They are calling on the Forest Service more and more for instruction and help. They are realizing some of the errors that are being made in cutting timber. Some demonstrations given in the woods have enabled them to see the difference between cutting down to a minimum stumpage or footing and selective cutting. I also have had the experience of having men cruise for me some timber which I sold. I did not realize that I had as much timber as that. They came in and marked the trees that should come out and left a lot of big trees that I thought were ready to sell but they did not. I was very much pleased and found I had a lot more timber than I had thought. I asked a good deal higher price than I would have asked if I had not had this information. My observation is that we do not have enough people to get around now that people are appreciating this work and the value of considering the farm wood lot as a crop. I heartily endorse any suggestion you gentlemen may have in giving more trained men to the community to do this work. Mr. GRANGER. Thank you very much. Mr. HALL. May I ask a question? Mr. GRANGER. Yes. Mr. HALL. I would like to ask you as a private timber operator what your opinion is about the average farmer who has a wood lot. We will say he does not have much cash and he wants some lumber. Would it be better for him to have the logs taken out and give a share to the mill operator and then get a share back and cut lumber, or would it be better for him to sell the whole business right off in logs? Mr. WINGFIELD. In the past sawmills have been available to us and accessible. Now they are not. It would depend on how accessible a sawmill is to him. Recently I was visiting one of my class who is building a very large poultry house. He told me his lumber cost $12 a thousand. I said, "How did you get it down to that?" He said, "I cut the logs myself and hauled them to the sawmill." If you have a situation like that it is much better for the farmer to cut his logs with his own labor and haul them than it it to buy it back at $60 a thousand. That is about what rough saw lumber is selling for in our community. Mr. HALL. Thank you. Mr. GRANGER. Thank you, sir. Mr. CUSTARD. We have another gentleman, Mr. T. R. Owens of Front Royal, Va. STATEMENT OF T. R. OWENS, FRONT ROYAL, VA. Mr. OWENS. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I am very much pleased with the Virginia Forest Service, and I am glad to come here today to endorse not only that service but this bill which I think will greatly improve the forestry conditions all over the country. Twelve years ago I went to Virginia and purchased 900 acres just about 3 miles east of Front Royal. Fifty years ago that farm was a well-balanced farm. It had cattle, horses, and about half of it was under cultivation and in improved pastures. By the time I took it over a good many of the fields were growing up with locusts, pine, poplar, and so forth. Since then it has continued to grow, because I did not take it over for the purpose of cultivating the ground. I have very little ground that could be cultivated now without some clearing. Immediately upon taking it over, I sold the bulk of the timber, the best of the timber on the place. Some of it was virgin timber. I contracted with a sawmill man, a fairly large operator, who moved his mill to the place and moved around from place to place on the farm. I had a fairly strict contract. He was to cut no lower than 15 inches from the ground, and some other conditions. I found that it took most of my time for about a year and a half supervising him, even though he was fairly cooperative. When I looked over the situation I found that I had lost a good deal of timber in the sawing. I think he did also. He was after certain timber for export and was, in my opinion, very wasteful. I did not sell much more until last year. I got the Virginia Forest Service to come in and mark my trees for me. It does not make any difference whether I knew how to mark them and measure them or not. Their marking and their measurement and their report carried a great deal more weight with the buyer than mine would have. When I got those trees all marked, and the footage estimated, I contacted the buyers. Some of them did not agree with it at all. They offered ridiculously low prices. Others, however, realized the value of the service and did not question the amount. I sold to very good advantage. It has taken very little of my time to supervise the operation because they have the trees marked and they go in and cut them. I simply try not to have my place cut to pieces in muddy weather. I am very much pleased. The operation is pretty well over and I am trying to salvage a good deal of the poplar in the way of pulpwood. I wish that we could get sufficient interests in forests and mills to utilize more of the timber. I still feel there is a great deal more timber going to waste in the tops than what is not taken off for saw logs. I wish we could utilize more of that. I heartily endorse the work that the Forest Service is doing, and I hope they can expand it. Thank you. Mr. GRANGER. Thank you a lot for your statement. Mr. CUSTARD. The last gentleman whom I would like to testify is Mr. Glenn Byerly of Mount Solon, Va. STATEMENT OF GLENN BYERLY, MOUNT SOLON, VA. Mr. BYERLY. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I live up at the other end of this river which flows through this town. I want to say that although I have a very small farm these men have cruised my timber and done a wonderful job. I am very much interested in this bill. I am interested in the seeding more than anything else. We have thousands of acres of eroded land which is unfit for pasture and the soil is coming into our river. The State is spending thousands of dollars in Virginia removing from the river that soil which is coming off those hills. What they are not getting out will come on down and you will have it here. We have hundreds of boys who do not have jobs, who have nothing to do, and many farms which have run down and are unproductive. If we can get those hills seeded we will save the soil out of the river and the State will have more money to spend in the forest service rather than taking the dirt out of the river. Naturally, I think we will have more money. I am deeply interested in this field. I appreciate very much the courtesy you have shown us today. Thank you. Mr. HALL. What kind of trees is the State planting up there? Mr. BYERLY. I will have to let the forest service answer that, because they plant a number of species. I do want to say that they did a good job. On certain soils they will plant one type of tree and on another type of soil they will plant another type of tree. They try to plant the type of tree which grows best on that type of soil. It holds the land. Mr. GRANGER. Thank you very much. Mr. CUSTARD. If you would like me to answer that question, I will attempt it, sir. Mr. HALL. I would like you to. Mr. CUSTARD. The State has two nurseries in which the primary species raised in our State are loblolly pine, short-leaf pine, yellow poplar, black locust, and black walnut. I might break the division up rather broadly and say that for the mountain areas from the Blue Ridge west primarily those species which are best adapted are white pine to the higher altitude areas, short-leaf pine in the lower foothills, and probably yellow poplar in our coal sites and bottom land areas. In the eastern part of Virginia the majority of the plantations that have been introduced have been of loblolly pine, which is more indigenous to that particular region. Mr. GRANGER. Thank you very much. Mr. CUSTARD. Mr. Chairman, I thank you for the permission to present a cross section of the positions of the people of our State. Mr. GRANGER. We are very glad to have your statement. Mr. MCMILLAN. Mr. Chairman, it was impossible for the State forester of South Carolina to be present today, and he has presented a statement to be presented in his behalf. He is Mr. Charles Flory. Mr. GRANGER. Without objection, his statement will be inserted in the record at this point. (The statement referred to is as follows:) STATEMENT BY CHARLES H. FLORY, STATE FORESTER, SOUTH CAROLINA, CONCERNING H. R. 2296, WITH SPECIAL REFERENCE TO SOUTH CAROLINA Amendment to sections 1, 2, and 3 This is the authorization under which Federal funds are allocated to the States for forest fire protection. South Carolina protects approximately 111⁄2 million acres of private forest lands. The budget for the present year is based on a protection cost of 7.3 cents per acre, or a total of $839,500. Of this amount, we allocate, to do the fire job, from State funds $495,200, and the Federal funds allocated to South Carolina under the above authorization and purpose are $344,291. The intent under these sections of the Clarke-McNary Act was to provide Federal funds to States on a 50-50 basis. At the present time the relationship is |