Mr. Louis D. Brandeis, of Boston, Mass. Mr. Henry H. Hunter, of New York Mr. Charles Dushkind, of New York Mr. Nicholas Erlich, of Brooklyn, N. Y Mrs. Christine Frederick, of New York. Mr. Abraham A. Erlanger, of New York. Mr. Boyd Fisher, of New York.. Mr. Alvin F. Knobloch, of Detroit, Mich. Mr. Alfred Lucking, of Detroit, Mich... Mr. Charles F. Miller, of Lancaster, Pa... Mr. Charles L. Miller, of Lancaster, Pa. Mr. Samuel Untermyer, of New York.. Mr. Edwin S. Hunt, of Waterbury, Conn. Mr. Thomas B. Paton, of New York.. The committee this day met, Hon. Henry D. Clayton (chairman) presiding The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order. Mr. Ryan is here this morning, and desires to be heard on pending antitrust legislation. STATEMENT OF MR. JOHN D. RYAN, OF BUTTE, MONT. Mr. RYAN. If the committee please, I want to address myself first to the bill that is not numbered, a bill introduced by Mr. ClaytonMr. CARLIN (interposing). It is numbered 1 in the corner, is it not? Mr. RYAN. Yes. No. 1, committee print. While there are a number of things about the bill that I would like to commend, I presume that you would rather, to save time, hear about the things to which I think there is some serious objection. Mr. CARLIN. We would like to hear your commendations. Mr. RYAN. I think, generally speaking, that the provisions in the bill making more definite the prevention of agreements, combinations. or understandings in restraint of trade, as far as they apply to domestic trade, are in the interests of the whole country and in the interests of the large and small manufacturers, miners, and producers. I think, although perhaps it is pretty bold to say this to you, that the first provision in that bill, providing, in effect, that the price of any commodity shall be the same, taking rates of transportation into consideration, for every section and community is an unworkable provision, especially if it relates to foreign business. Nearly every producer and manufacturer of any article that is exported in any quantity Mr. CARLIN (interposing). That is not intended to relate to foreign business, and the committee will make it plain that it does not. Mr. RYAN. I am very glad to hear that, but I just want to say a word if there is any question about it. Of course, if the committee understands that it does not apply to foreign business, most of my argument can be done away with. But, regarding foreign business, exporters must do business in every country in the world, in every kind of money, under every kind of rate of exchange, and under all kinds of freight rates, and, as I say, such a provision is absolutely and entirely unworkable. Mr. CARLIN. How would your criticism apply if the bill is simply to relate to the United States? Mr. RYAN. Simply this: Many producers are producing the same article in different sections throughout the country at different costs. Take our own business. We are refining and making copper_ready for the market in Montana and we are making it in New Jersey. Frequently, when we make a sale of an amount, large or small, to a domestic manufacturer we do not know where we are going to deliver that copper from, whether it is to come from the Montana works or from the New Jersey works, because it all depends upon how business is in the West, whether the Montana plant is overloaded or how business is in the East, or whether we have Mr. CARLIN (interposing). It would be simple enough for you to quote a price to your customer which would apply to either factory and ship it from whichever factory you pleased? Mr. RYAN. Yes; but we must meet the competition of the Michigan copper mines. We sell copper 1,500 miles from our own refineries and 500 miles from the Michigan refineries, and we have to meet that competition. On copper shipped from Montana we could not make a rate that would comply with this provision and at the same time meet competition in other sections. We would have to surrender the intermediate field to another producer who was nearer to that district, because it would be absolutely impossible for us to compete with him. However, when we get farther East he is on the same footing, practically, that we are, and Mr. CARLIN (interposing). How much competition have you? Mr. RYAN. We produce in our mines, on the basis of last year's business, 13 per cent of the copper of the world and 19 per cent of the copper produced in the United States. That is the total production sold by our companies. Now, I would like to say a word regarding your suggestion, Mr. Carlin, that it is not intended to regulate the price of exported products under this provision. It may be rather bold to say so, but I |