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Mr. CLARK. That applies to white people, too. The migration from farm to city has been irrespective of race. The number of people who have left farms in Pennsylvania and moved into cities has become a disturbing social phenomenon. It is not a racial problem.

Mr. JOHNSTON. In my State a great many colored people live on farms.
Mr. CLARK. I am sure that is correct.

Mr. JOHNSTON. A great many have moved into towns in my State, and they have moved into the Senator's State and into other States, mostly into cities.

Mr. CLARK. That is correct.

Mr. JOHNSTON. Those who made up that chart did not take into account the chickens and cows and hogs and everything else. When the per capita income is shown, it looks very low indeed.

Mr. CLARK. They do the same thing with the whites on the farms in the Senator's State, who have very low income, as they have in Appalachia, a part of which is in my State. The income of farmers all over the United States is very low. These statistics take into account both Negroes and whites.

Mr. CASE. Mr. President, will the Senator yield?
Mr. JOHNSTON. They did not count them in making up that kind of statistics.
Mr. CASE. Mr. President, will the Senator yield ?

Mr. CLARK. Will my friend from South Carolina permit me to yield to my friend from New Jersey ?

Mr. JOHNSTON. Yes.

Mr. Case. I point out to the Senator from South Carolina that what the Senator from Pennsylvania is saying is correct. The figure for the median income of Negroes in South Carolina is 35 percent of the median income of whites in the whole State, taking into account both farm and nonfarm population.

Mr. JOHNSTON. I can explain that, too. The industries in my State are in the upper part of the State.

Mr. CLARK. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that a table which appears at pages 349 and 370 of the subcommittee hearing to which I have earlier referred, entitled "Table 1, estimated lifetime earnings for males in the experienced civilian labor force by years of school completed, color, and origin for selected occupations," one of which is agriculture, may be printed at this point in the Record.

There being no objection, the table was ordered to be printed in the Record, as follows:

Table 1.- Estimated lifetime earnings for males in the ex perienced civilian labor force, by years of school completed, color, and region, for selected

occupations
| Earnings from age 18 to 64 years. Thousands of dollars. These data are from Herman P. Miller. “Trends in Income Distribution in the United States”.; 1960 census monograph

being prepared under the joint sponsorship of the Bureau of the Census and the Social Science Research Council)
i

United States
North and West

South
Occupation and years of school completed

Non-
Ratio of
Non- Ratio of

Non- Ratio of Total White white nonwhite Total White white nonwhite Total White white non white to white to white

to white

FARMERS AND PARM MANAGERS Total

140

147

59

40

156

157

166

106

114

129

41

32

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84
126

97
129

42
70

43
54

128
136

130
137

Elementary:

Less than 8 years.

8 years.
High school:

1 to 3 years

4 years..
College:

I to 3 years
years or more

years.
years or more

147
168

151
169

93
147

62
87

159
168

160
169

213
267
271
269

215
272
276
252

200
240
243
240

200
243
246
244

243 344 337

250 353 345

80

91

49

54

100

102

84

82

58

71

42

69

62
90

70
96

45
56

64
58

81
100

82
102

74
76

90
75

50
67

58
75

40
46

69
61

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FARM LABORERS AND FOREMEN

Total

Elementary:

Less than 8 years.

8 years
High school:

I to 3 years

4 years.
College:

1 to 3 years
4 years or more

4 years.
5 years or more

FARM LABORERS, WAGE WORKERS

Total

60
88

97
117

Elementary:

Less than 8 years.

8 years.
High school:

1 to 3 years

4 years.
College:

1 to 3 years
4 years or more

4 years
5 years or more

138
167

144

Mr. CLARK. Mr. President, I yield to the Senator from South Carolina.

Mr. JOHNSTON. In South Carolina there are approximately 800,000 colored people. About 33 percent of the people in South Carolina are colored, and about 67 percent of them are white.

Most of the 800,000 colored people live on the farms in South Carolina. That cannot be said of the white people. The majority of the white people live in the cities or work in industry. Those white people draw higher salaries. Is that not true? I know it is true in South Carolina.

Mr. CLARK. The Senator will recall that he and I had a colloquy on the subject a week or two ago. At that time, we discussed the absence of voting in the Senator's State in certain rural counties where Negroes outnumber the white people. The Senator stated at that time that those are only a few counties with very small population.

I concluded from the statement of the Senator that that was not typical of the situation in South Carolina. I am now interested at being enlightened by the Senator on this situation when the Senator states that there is a much higher percentage of Negroes in the rural areas than in the cities. This would be a good reason for the Senator to vote for title I.

Mr. JOHNSTOX. For the information of the Senator, what the Senator is discussing today does not bear on the question. The bill would eliminate everyone who has less than 25 employees. Is that not true?

Mr. CLARK. I am talking about voting. The Senator is talking about employment.

Mr. Johnston. In South Carolina, not only are the colored people voting, but there are more colored people running for office than we are given credit for permitting to vote.

Mr. CLARK. That is a refreshing statement to hear in the Senate. I am afraid the statistics will not stand up.

Mr. JOHNSTON. Eight colored people are running for the legislature today in Richland County in South Carolina. There are other colored people running for office all over the State. I have not checked the other counties, but colored people are running for office.

Mr. CLARK. I think this is a wonderful example of how persistent and enlightening statesmen are making splendid progress in this matter in the State of South Carolina for the first time in almost 100 years.

Mr. Johnston. If the Senator were to investigate the matter, he would discover that, on the whole, South Carolina has been permitting some of them to vote for a long time. However, a great many of them do not care to vote.

Mr. Clark. I believe a great many of them are afraid to vote.

Mr. Johnston. They are not. I have not heard of anyone who was afraid to vote. The Senator has not heard of any report from the committee which was appointed to go out and investigate, to the effect that they were intimidated.

Mr. CLARK. I am not on that committee.

Mr. Johnston. I know the Senator is not on the committee, but the Senator has the committee report. He has read it. The Senator tried to bring to our attention the claim that they are mistreated. He has not discovered this to be true in South Carolina. Is that correct ?

Mr. CLARK. Does the Senator desire to ask me another question?

Mr. Johnston. Yes. I want to ask the Senator a question about the chart on unemployment which the Senator referred to. It will be found that there is migration from the farms to the towns.

Mr. CLARK. The Senator is correct.

Mr. JOHNSTON. That is correct. It will also be found that in South Carolina a great many of the migrants are colored people. I think the same is true in regard to other Southern States.

Mr. CLARK. The Senator is correct.

Mr. Johxstox. That being so, those colored people come into the cities, unprepared to be carpenters, unprepared to be electricians, unprepared for special jobs of that kind. This situation results in a larger percentage of the colored people being unemployed. Is that not so?

Mr. CLARK. The Senator is in part correct. It is true that lack of educational opportunities and the unfortunate parental environment do make a great many of them unemployable when they leave the farm and come to the cities. But in addition, there has been great discrimination in regard to employment in the Senator's State.

I say there was some discrimination in regard to employment in Pennsylvania until we had the good sense to adopt the statewide FEPC law some time ago.

Mr. JOHNSTON. Does the Senator know that in the State of South Carolina, white and colored teachers are paid the same salary?

Mr. CLARK. I did not know it.

Mr. JOHxston. The law was enacted a long time ago, while I was Governor. The teachers are given examinations. The examination papers are graded just as they are under Federal civil service regulations.

The papers are not graded in South Carolina. They are sent to Princeton University. This is done so that the northern people will not criticize us. The papers are graded at Princeton University and the people who grade the papers do not know whether the teachers are colored or white. The papers are given mnumbers, and the teachers are paid in accordance with the result of the examinations.

Mr. CLARK. As a graduate of Harvard, I would not want to make an invidious comment about Princeton. However, I would be inclined to pay more attention to the results if an IBM computer were used.

Mr. JOHNSTON. In South Carolina we are doing everything we can to avoid criticism.

Mr. CLARK. The rate of Negro unemployment has gone up consistently as compared with white unemployment for the past 15 years. This is a social malaise and a social situation which we should not tolerate. That is one of the principal reasons why the bill should pass.

Mr. JOHNSTON. Returning to the chart, it was stated that educated people earn much more money. Where did the Senator obtain the statistics showing that this one teacher was receiving such a low salary?

Mr. CLARK. I do not know what State the Senator is referring to.

Mr. JOHNSTON. The Senator stated in his speech that a colored college graduate received only a very small salary.

Mr. CLARK. The Senator has reference to chart 2, which shows that the lifetime earnings of a white man in the labor force who has completed only the elementary school would be more during his lifetime than the lifetime earnings of a Negro who had completed 4 years of college.

I obtained those figures from the Census Bureau.

Mr. Johnston. But in addition, the Senator has again taken into consideration the employment situation which they face, and whether the salaries paid are lower in the particular locality where they happen to be born and reared than they are at the present time.

Mr. CLARK. That is why the bill is here, so that we can open up areas of employment for Negroes to which they have been denied access for the past 100 years. That having been made clear, I hope that the Senator will vote for the bill.

Mr. JOHNSTON. I will not vote for the bill. The Senator is stirring up more headaches than have ever existed before in the life of the Senator. All of the disturbances will not be in the South Carolina. Many of them will be in Philadelphia.

Mr. CLARK. Does the Senator desire to ask any further questions? Mr. JOHNSTON. No. Mr. Case. Mr. President, will the Senator yield for an inquiry on procedure? Mr. CLARK. I yield. Mr. Case. I suggest that the Senator from Pennsylvania and I might completo our statements, and then submit ourselves jointly or individually to questions. The questions might be numerous and lengthy. It would be of some help to the Senator from New Jersey if he might now make his statement, which would require perhaps three-fourths of an hour. It would then be time for the services for General MacArthur. After the services, we could return and devote the remainder of the day, if necessary, to this discussion.

Mr. CLARK. The Senator from New Jersey has a good point.

Mr. ERVIN. If there is to be a debate, it would be better to have the debate proceed as the speeches are made, rather than to have all the speeches made at one time.

Mr. CLARK. The Senator from North Carolina is correct. I am quite hungry, but I will indulge the Senator,

Mr. Case. How long does the Senator from North Carolina estimate that it would take?

Mr. Ervin. I have some questions. However, I cannot predict the length of the answers of the Senator from Pennsylvania.

Mr. CLARK, Can the Senator predict the length of the questions?

Mr. Ervix. I cannot predict the questions which I may ask since some answers may provoke a question I do not now have in mind.

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