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Senator BALL. I was wondering about building a permanent building, because this is purely a munitions industry, which, if this emergency ends, probably will fold up.

Mr. Wilson. I expected that question, and I investigated that very thoroughly. Now it is anticipated that the Du Pont factory will continuously employ at least 6,000 people in the manufacture of Nylon, I believe, or some other product.

Senator Ball. They are building it so they can convert it to peacetime use?

Mr. Wilson. That is supposed to be true. I will not be responsible for that being 100 percent correct, but that statement came to me first through rumor, and upon further investigation I was able to verify it.

Senator BALL. There would be some justification for building a permanent school?

Mr. Wilson. Yes.

Senator BALL. Otherwise, I suppose it would go into something like the construction of Army cantonments.

Mr. Wilson. Yes; temporary structures. The construction work at the plant is pretty well completed, in fact, one unit of the plant is running now. They are producing powder. They produce about 200,000 pounds per day. When they finish, it will be about 600,000 pounds per day, and they anticipate using those people who are there largely in the industry.

The bag-loading plant is going to add to that. I might tell you further what I happen to know about the bag-loading plant, which is located adjacent to this powder plant. As to the children coming from another area, they anticipate taking care of all the grade children in the rural schools and they will not need any help; they will take care of those, and only the high school pupils will be taken into Jeffersonville for education.

Senator BALL. Each one of these defense plants, these large ordnance plants, is likely to present a very individual problem?

Mr. Wilson. 'I rather think so, yes.
Senator Ball. It is pretty hard to lay down a general program.

Mr. Wilson. I should think you people probably would be able to get from the War Department—or the Navy, this happens to be the Navy Ordnance, I think—and through them from Du Pont as to what will probably happen to that plant. The people who made the survey are very competent. I am sure that the survey is one of the best possible. These men are experts in the field. They are cautious and do not wish to build up a ghost proposition there, they just simply do not want that thing if it can be helped.

I was a school administrator when I came to Congress, so if you have any questions pertaining to school finances in Indiana, I think I could perhaps answer them for you.

The CHAIRMAN. Those subjects, Congressman Wilson, were pretty well covered yesterday in a general way, and we are awfully happy to have the particular case as you have presented it, governing one plant, thank you.

Mr. Wilson. If I may, I would like to comment on one other problem.

The CHAIRMAN. You may. Mr. Wilson. The Madison Proving Grounds is located in my district also. I have a problem there which I wonder if your bill covers. The Federal Government took over two-thirds, rather 62 percent of the tax base of Shelby Township. Shelby Township had built a new high school and they had bonded the township for it. When the Government took over the land, they did not take the school. Had they taken the school they would have evidently added on to the price they paid for the school enough to cover the bonds, but that leaves this $13,000 bonded indebtedness shifted over to 38 percent of the taxpayers. I have introduced a bill, H. R. 4264, and asked for reports, and I sent out 1,000 or more letters on that, which requires the Federal Government to assume that portion of the bonded indebtedness against the school corporation, that portion which is parallel to the portion of the tax base taken. Does this bill anticipate taking care of a situation of that kind?

The CHAIRMAN. I do not think so. I should think that would be a particular case, in the way in which you stated it. Your point is an illustration of course, of the need, because these things are happening. We are actually taking away from persons and communities anticipated rights and privileges.

Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. So that it contributes greatly to helping us appreciate how big this problem is as it comes in.

Mr. Wilson. There is no tax base added at all to this. They merely moved those people out. Perhaps two or three families are settled in this adjoining or remaining part of the township but there is no wealth added. Then the law forbids them going beyond 4 percent assessed valuation on the bonded indebtedness. With this shift that makes it about 7 or 8 percent.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Congressman Wilson.

STATEMENT OF LT. COL. FRANK J. McSHERRY, DIRECTOR,

DEFENSE TRAINING, FEDERAL SECURITY AGENCY The CHAIRMAN. Colonel, if you will please state your name, your address, and title for the record.

Colonel McSHERRY. Lt. Col. Frank J. McSherry, director, defense training, Federal Security Agency, Washington, D. C.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Colonel. You may proceed.

Colonel McSHERRY. I would like to present one point for your consideration in regard to this bill. That point is the need of additional vocational-educational facilities in communities adjacent to defensemanufacturing industries and naval and military establishments employing large numbers of civilian employees. Of 395 selected occupations, which the Federal Employment Service watches closely because of the existing shortage of skilled and semiskilled workers, or the potential shortage in these occupations, there were only 351,000 names on the active list of our Federal Employment Service rolls out of some 5,000,000 total registrants, in the active files of the Employment Service. Three hundred and thirty-one of these selected occupations had approximately 52,000 names only on the active list. One hundred and eighty-five of these occupations had less than 100 names each on the active list, and 68 had less than 10 names each on the active list, and 12 had no names.

These occupations, to a very large extent, are those in industries that are being expanded for national defense. Obviously there is a training problem. The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that there will be required 2,078,000 additional workers during the current year. With only a few thousand trained workers available at this time on the unemployed list, it is obvious that training within industry and training in vocational schools must be stepped up a great deal if we are not to have a definite delay in production of munitions and implements of war.

In communities adjacent to these new military or manufacturing plants we have a definite training problem. As for example, the ordnance plant at Kingsbury, Ind., a community of some 200, covers 20 square miles of land, and will employ 12,000 workmen. A new plant of this sort usually secures a few supervisory personnel and executive personnel from the parent plant, or if there is no parent plant they secure them from one of the ordnance arsenals. The remainder of the 12,000 personnel required are recruited from the unemployed and, to a limited extent, from nondefense industries.

It is quite evident that in a case such as the Kingsbury Ordnance Plant there must be a considerable program of training within the plant if they are to meet their requirements for skilled personnel. The vocational schools of the country are indispensable to a training program within a plant as they give the supplementary or related instruction to the employed workman who is to be upgraded from the semiskilled job to a skilled job. As the men are promoted within a plant, vacancies are created at the bottom. It has been found that a short, intensive course in a vocational school will qualify an inexperienced man to go on a production line where he can immediately produce things without too many rejects which would slow up production. Now, the two types of programs I have in mind that are needed are supplementary courses in related subjects, instruction and preemployment courses for beginners. It seems quite evident to us that in the consideration of this bill the possibility of establishing vocation schools adjacent to these manufacturing plants is highly desirable.

The CHAIRMAN. Any questions?

Senator Ball. I was interested in that Kingsbury. Is not there a large city somewhere near?

Colonel McSHERRY. Yes; La Porte, 23 miles away from the new plant. Kingsbury is the largest town adjacent to the Kingsbury Ordnance Plant.

Senator Ball. But there is no large city within 20 miles of there?
Colonel McSHERRY. No.
Senator Ball. What is that? A powder plant?
Colonel McSHERRY. A shell-loading plant.
Senator ELLENDER. Where does the labor come from?

Colonel McSHERRY. In a case like Kingsbury Ordnance Plant the personnel manager will visit large cities, such as Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Detroit, and attempt to secure machinists, tool makers, maintenance men, and other skilled men that he needs in the plant. He will secure some from this source. The rest of the workers are recruited in the community adjacent to the plants and given training in the plants. It is highly desirable to select men who live in the community rather than bring in others from outside.

Senator ELLENDER. Well, what percentage of the workmen come from the neighborhood who are not disturbed, who do not have to move away, in other words?

Colonel McSHERRY. That would vary.
Senator ELLENDER. I mean for this particular plant, do you know?
Colonel McSHERRY. I do not know for that particular plant.
Senator ELI.ENDER. All right.

The CHAIRMAN. This plant and the Charlestown plant, the two of them together were two of the first selected, were they not?

Colonel McSHERRY. They were.

The CHAIRMAN. They are beginning to discover from those experiences that they did not take into consideration all of the factors in regard to the building of a plant, the upsetting of social surroundings, the need of employment, the relief of unemployment in close areas, and the rest of it. Are not they discovering that by now?

Colonel McSHERRY. That is out of my field. If you want my personal opinion on it, I think you are correct.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you think there is anyone who does not see those great social mistakes? If there is one I would like to know his name.

Colonel McSHERRY. I do not know of anyone.

Senator ELLENDER. Do they build residences for the employees on these reservations that you know of, at Kingsbury?

Colonel McSHERRY. Not on a reservation like the one at Kingsbury. On certain military reservations I imagine they do.

Senator ELLENDER. I am talking about Kingsbury only.
Colonel McSHERRY. No; they are built outside the reservation.
The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Colonel.

Has Dr. Alexander come in? If not, we will hear General Fries, please.

STATEMENT OF MAJ. GEN. AMOS A. FRIES, REGIONAL DIRECTOR,

FRIENDS OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS OF AMERICA The CHAIRMAN. General Fries, for the record, will you please state your name, your address, and the organization you represent, and whatever other material you want to appear in the record in connection with your name and your

work? General FRIES. Yes, Senator. My name is Amos A. Fries, director of the southern-western region of the Friends of the Public Schools of America, and I am officially representing that organization.

The Friends of the Public Schools of America was founded by Mrs. Greta S. Deffenbaugh, of Chicago, Ill. I have here a 4-page circular from which I will read only the first sentence.

The Friends of the Public Schools of America is an organization with headquarters in Chicago, Ill., operating on a national program for improving, protecting, and preserving the tax-supported free public schools.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you want the whole document to go into the record?

General Fries. No, sir. I have a short brief entitled “Objects and Program of Action," which I would like to put in the record.

The CHAIRMAN. The recorder will see that it is placed in the proper position.

(The brief, Objects and Program of Action, referred to is as follows:)

OBJECTS AND PROGRAM OF ACTION

(1) The Public School system of the United States (that is, free public schools open to all children without distinction as to race, color, or religion or whether citizen or alien) is a purely American institution founded by the ancestors of the men who fought the War of the Revolution, in the belief that a democracy where all have a voice in the government, can only endure if the citizens are educated sufficiently to study and understand the Constitution and laws by which they live and practice the rights of citizenship.

(2) The Friends of the Public Schools of America is an organization operating on a national program for improving, protecting, and preserving the tax-supported free public schools.

(3) It is an organization of citizens who are interested in public education, who are willing to give enough time to the study of the problems of public education to thoroughly understand them, and then to take such action, in the various school districts, counties, and State governments, and finally the United States, as will best promote and defend the public schools from every danger that may threaten.

(4) They believe that the United States public school policy should be shaped by citizens who believe in and who understand the public schools—citizens who are patriotic and who are actively supporting the Constitution of the United States, while at the same time they are actively opposing any alien or subversive propaganda in the schools.

(5). They oppose the use of public funds for private schools of any kind, whether based on religion, business, politics, race, or creed.

(6) The Friends of the Public Schools of America are not opposed to private or religious schools which are truly American in character and maintain a proper standard of instruction and which also teach patriotism and loyalty to our Government. Such schools must not, however, be supported in whole or in any part from public funds.

General FRIES. I just want to make one further statement in the beginning. We are not opposing Federal aid for schools—that is, emergency aid for schools, whether it is due to national-defense projects or migratory children, or for lack of taxable property in certain localities to meet school needs.

The greatest danger to the public schools under this bill, S. 1313, is (1) eventual complete Federal control resulting finally in the operation of all schools by the United States Government, and (2) the diversion of public-school money to the support of private and sectarian religious schools. Both of these conditions will come to pass if this bill or any similar general education bill becomes law.

In fact, centralized education is now being organized through the Progressive Education Association and the N. E. A., the latter under the leadership of the two main subdivisions thereof (the National Association of School Administrators and the National Association of Secondary School Principals), both of which suborganizations of the N. E. A. have their own executive secretaries and meet twice a year generally while the National Education Association meets but once.

Working along the same line with the N. E. A. and the Progressive Education Association are other teacher and educator associations, particularly the Teachers' Union.

S. 1313 IS A PERMANENT BILL, NOT AN EMERGENCY MEASURE

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The preamble to this bill (S. 1313) states in part: To strengthen the national defense and

assist the States and Territories in meeting financial emergencies in education.

Likewise section 1 under "Finding of fact" (2) reads in part: that because of shifting of populations due to the exigencies of national defense and so forth.

These two words "emergencies" and "exigencies” would indicate that the bill is temporary in character and to meet more or less

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