of Birmingham in favor of reform. The meeting at which this petition was agreed to was most numerously attended, and a degree of eloquence and research was displayed at it, as great as is usually to be heard in this or the other House of Parliament. It was convened at Birmingham, a town of great importance, on account of its extensive manufactories. I am old enough to remember the disturbances which took place there about forty years ago, with the high church-and-king_mob. From that time, not the slightest appearance of disturbance has ever been displayed, although Birmingham, during that period, has not been free from the pressure of occasional distress. In a few years after those disturbances, it became the fashion for the opulent tradesmen to encourage reading and polite learning, and within a very short period also, different libraries were established, where books were lent out. In consequence of this state of things, the labouring classes possess much more intelligence, and better informed minds, than is general among that class of men; and I believe that to their superior intelligence and knowledge may be attributed the peaceful and orderly conduct of the town of Bir mingham. On all these accounts this petition is well worthy attention; but I wish to impress on the attention of the Noble Lords of the cabinet a point strongly urged in this petition, and felt most anxiously throughout the country-I allude to the vote by ballot. I do not know whether it will be brought forward in the plan about to be proposed by Ministers, but I am perfectly convinced that, whatever system may be proposed, unless it include the ballot, it will not give satisfaction to the country. This opinion was expressed at the meeting at which this petition was agreed to, which meeting, after stating divers advantages attending the vote by ballot,

expressed its opinion, that any measure of reform which did not include that principle would not give satisfaction, and that any measure of reform with it must be of advantage. The feeling of this meeting I believe to be the feeling of the country at large. I do not, however, notice this for the purpose of extracting any expression of sentiment from the Noble Lords opposite, but in the hope that if, on inquiry, they find my opinion confirmed, they may be induced to make the vote by ballot a part of their measure of reform ; and I do hope and trust, that if they should come to the opinion that its introduction will do no good, and yet believe that it would also do no harm, they will concede so much to the wish of the people as to make the ballot a part of the reform measure. I have heard the ballot stigmatised as novel and unprecedented. It does appear to me most extraordinary that such an assertion should be made, when it is known that in America, a country more flourishing than any other in the world, the practice of voting by ballot universally prevails. The truth is, the ballot is not even unprecedented in this country, but was practised, as your Lordships will find by referring to a book in your Lordships' library, in the borough of Lymington. Notwithstanding the stigma now attached to it of novelty, a protest was signed about 100 years ago by several Peers, in which they expressed their objection to the election of Scotch Peers being carried on by any other means than by ballot.

Lord CALTHORPE.-I hope, from my connexion with the town of Birmingham, I may be allowed to say a few words on the subject of this petition. I cannot, certainly, agree in all the sentiments contained in it, because it contains more than Parliament can be expected to grant. Had it not been for the repeated refusal of Parliament to listen to any

proposition in favor of reform, extreme measures would never have been recommended. But when it is recollected, that year after year Parliament has refused to grant to the population of that town that which in all reason, in all justice, and in accordance with the very first rudiments of any system of representation, ought not to be refused; it can hardly be considered extraordinary, that when they asked for the elective franchise, they should couch their prayer in terms, perhaps, not quite consistent with propriety. I must say this for myself, that ever since I took my seat in this House, having resolved that no circumstances, no consideration whatever, should deter me from supporting a just, wise, and temperate measure of reform, whenever it might be proposed, I had yet no conception that arguments so strong could be urged in its favor, until my experience and observation of the town of Birming ham commenced. I can with truth declare, that any man would form a most imperfect idea of the habits and wants of such a population, who should measure them by the ingenuity and mechanical skill displayed in their manufactories.

No one

who knows what the habits of a manufacturing population are, can be ignorant that that skill and ingenuity which manufacturers call forth, cannot be exercised without producing a strong effect on those human beings by whom they are carried on. These causes, too, will create that sort of spur and influence, which, in a country like this, where the public attention is called to public events and public men, cannot but shew itself in a desire for the exercise of public rights. Therefore I am induced, from my acquaintance with the habits of such a population, to say, that in withholding the elective franchise from persons so situated, you are not withholding that which, if conceded, would produce injury

and danger to the State, but that which, if granted, would operate as a safety-valve to irritated and excited feelings, and produce that state of things which would materially tend to the security and welfare of the country. It is with these feelings that, when the measure of reform shall be brought forward, I shall be most anxious to consider it, and, in consequence, to view it in the most favorable and partial light. Until Parliament is acquainted with the nature of that measure, it would be premature for me to pledge myself for the relief of the peculiar difficulties with which that important measure is surrounded,—difficulties, in my mind, in no slight degree increased by the feeling produced in the public mind on account of any effective measure of Parliamentary reform being so long delayed-a feeling which is most strikingly displayed in the meetings which have taken place on this subject, where every man who uses the language of moderation is considered at most as a lukewarm friend of reform, if not its secret enemy.

Lord KING presented petitions from Donegore, Kilbride, Ballyeaston, Nalteen, Hertford, Bassford, Emsworth, Warblington, Mile-End Old Town, and the Political Union of Manchester.

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

Feb. 16, 1831.

Colonel ABERCROMBIE presented a petition in favor of reform from Alloa.

Lord EBRINGTON presented a petition from the county of Devon, signed by nearly 7000 persons.

Mr. HUME presented petitions from St. Mary-le-bone, Framfield, and Hythe, in favor of reform. Also from the Incorporation of Waulkers in Edinburgh, the inhabitants of Inverary, Dunbarton, Lauder, and Lanark, in favor of reform and vote by ballot.

Sir J. CARNEGIE.-I hold in my hand three petitions from the inhabitants of Queensferry and Inverkeithing; and the tailors, weavers, coopers, and wrights of Queensferry, praying for reform. I take this opportunity of saying, that I do not know what will become of Scotland unless something is done for her. We all know the general distress which prevails, and unless something is done, I think it not at all improbable that she will join Ireland in complaining to this House. If honorable gentlemen are versed in the affairs of Scotland, they must be aware of the necessity of reform in her administration. In making these remarks, I wish it to be understood, that I make no imputation against the present Ministry. I hail with satisfaction the repeal of the duty on coals, which will certainly be more effectual than any other repeal of taxation could be, to relieve the people from the operation of a great burden; but a great deal more remains to be done notwithstanding. The distress of the poor must be relieved; it is not known, it is not felt by the aristocratic portion of the community, who are wallowing in wealth. Look into the dwellings of the poor, not only in the country, but in London, and you will see the most abject state of poverty that can possibly be conceived. The state of the country is awful: look to the signs of the times; look to the universal murmuring and discontent, and then reflect whether it is not imperatively necessary that some measures should be immediately adopted to relieve the sufferings of the people. Look at the failings and backslidings of men, -may we not liken ourselves to the people of the Lord in ancient times? We are doing evil; we forget our duty. The state of the country demands the immediate and earnest attention of this House; it is impossible that the country can much longer exist in its present state.

Look at the burnings, and other acts of outrage, which have recently taken place. Is it not likely that, in the course of another season, the standing corn of the country will be set fire to? I would entreat Government to remember the recent events which have taken place in France, and which have since extended to other countries, and which may extend further still. Scotland has hitherto been contented and tranquil; but it is impossible to say how long she will continue so. Scot land and Ireland are united one with another, and if something be not inmediately done to relieve the country from its present dreadful condition, the kingdom will be in a state of anarchy and confusion from one end to the other. The people will not always raise their voices and implore this House to relieve them. An hour of retribution will arrive, when the voice of the people must be heard and attended to. The higher orders, the affluent people of this country, must make some sacrifices to relieve the distresses of the poor.

Sir CHARLES FORBES.-I can only say, in reply to the observations which have just been made, that I sincerely wish every part of his Majesty's dominions were as well off as Scotland is at this moment. I hope that the Honorable Member is duly impressed with that fact. I am very sorry to find that Scotland is not so contented as 1 supposed it to be. I can only say again and again, that I wish this country were one-half as well off as it is.

Sir JAMES CARNEGIE.— I believe I stated the fact, Sir, that Scotland had hitherto been very con tented, but that it was impossible to say how long it would remain so. When I state that the average wages of Scotch manufacturers do not exceed eight shillings per week, I do not think it can be said to be in a very flourishing condition.