Senator CLARK. I am interested in what you say-in recent months rather than in recent years. Can you tell when this new attitude began to be apparent and why?

Miss FAIRFAX. Well, we have been really most aware of it within the last year and I cannot tell you why there has been this growing concern, I am sure that Washington has been pressing more recently than in earlier years.

Senator CLARK. I wish Senator Javits were here to listen to your testimony.

Mr. COLLINSON. That has been my experience also, Senator.

Senator CLARK. Thank you very much, Miss Fairfax, and Mr. Collinson. We certainly appreciate your testimony, and your willingness to come here and let us hear from you.

Mr. COLLINSON. May I place these in the record, Senator, a few case histories that may be helpful?

Senator CLARK. That testimony may be received in the record. (The information referred to follows:)

ADDITIONAL STATEMENT BY NOYES COLLINSON, DIRECTOR, MERIT EMPLOYMENT PROGRAM, AMERICAN FRIENDS SERVICE COMMITTEE, Atlanta, Ga.

Miscellaneous data.-Atlanta (city) population, 1960 census, 487,450: White, 300,635 (61.8 percent); nonwhite, 186,820 (38.2 percent).

Nonwhite population occupies only 16.4 percent of the "total developed residential land" (Metropolitan planning commission report).

Concern XYZ: A very large concern: In its bimonthly recruiting bulletin announces a goal of 985 new female employees for the current year. As of June, the bulletin states, there are still 771 new jobs yet to be filled within this goal. Last year the company employed 69 high school girl graduates on a part-time basis. To date this year it has employed 218. But when Negro applicants, even college graduates, apply, either they are told there are no openings, or, taking and passing the examination, are told, in effect, "You don't meet our qualifications, or your skills could be better used elsewhere." One young woman reports that a physical examination was "required," and then dental (cavities, perhaps. we do not know) work was suggested. The next day the young woman returned, showing that the work had been done, only to be told, "Oh, we don't have any jobs right now."

Company KLD: A very large concern, advises that it cannot afford to antagonize its patrons by employing Negro personnel except in "certain" categories-meaning traditional. The risk is too great in the face of competition, it says, and furthermore, it must "protect" its patrons' safety and therefore relies upon experienced white personnel. A Negro who had completed his Navy service and held a mechanic's certificate applied for a job in response to an advertisement. I have not seen the particular insertion, but I understand it carried the "An Equal Opportunity Employer" slogan. Not until he presented himself was his race known. His qualifications were acceptable, but he was offered a job of washing down motors. This he had not done even in the Navy. He is currently a porter for the company, hoping for advancement.

Company JKG: An established firm, under third-generation ownership and management, with fourth generation preparing to take over shortly, holds a Government contract. To the best of my knowledge, no Negroes are employed in any capacity, although I do not have evidence other than visual, for this surmise. The proprietor tells me that his grandfather owned slaves, and that each succeeding generation is more liberal than the preceding one. He says that even though it may be morally right, and does not argue against the economic validity of employing Negroes, he "simply cannot bring himself to do it." When I suggested that perhaps by the time his grandson takes over there might be a Negro employed, he smiled and "allowed a perhaps so"

CFL company: A Government-contract firm, with national branches and subsidiaries tells me it cannot risk losing customers, the cost of attracting them is too great, by employing Negro route salesmen, although a competitor

has employed several for a considerable time. Possibly in a Negro neighborhood, yes, there are two. When I suggested Negro office help, in the billing department or on the switchboard at the plant, the lack of interest on management's part could only be attributed to an unwillingness to "disturb❞ the white female staff.

The ARO company, a Government-contract firm, declines to employ Negro women on an assembly line requiring manual dexterity only (actual digital dexterity, handling small components) because "the white girls are not sufficiently 'sophisticated' to accept colored associates."

A financial institution says its business operations are rapidly automating to such an extent that its working force will be decreased rather than augmented in the next few years, and "Of course, we couldn't consider employing Negroes when we are not even employing new white help, and moreover, our girls are low paid, and mostly from the suburban areas, where they are unused to mingling with Negroes, they wouldn't work well together."

Another financial institution: Vice president in charge of personnel and public relations, says that the nature of his company's business is too confidential to warrant using Negroes-clients would be offended. This is a national concern. The vice president says he thinks there is a Negro stenographer in the New York office.

Company MMT: The president declines to talk to me about compliance with Executive Order 10925 because, he says, "He doesn't want to 'start anything.' I am advised by persons who have worked there that minority people who acquire skills are laid off before they have an opportunity to establish tenure by virtue of completing the required minimum credit of working days. This I cannot verify, but I believe the source to be reliable.

A large Federal installation interviews Negro applicants who have passed civil service examinations. An exact count of Negroes in other than traditional jobs would reveal a very small number-none so far as I can determine, in clerical departments. One reason for this, I am advised by a professional man assigned there is that in applying the rule of three, a department head says, in effect, "I know I should take the highest rated, but I'll be 'blowed' if I will-I just can't have any of my white girls making a fuss."

The facilities are theoretically desegregated, and working conditions are said to be good. But the personnel officer tells me that "imported" professionals from outside the South to whom jobs are offered, reply, "No thanks; it may be fine to work in a desegregated plant from 9 to 5, 5 days a week, but my family and I have to live in a segregated community from 5 to 9, 7 days in the week."

Company AFT: A Government contract concern-and this could be said of several such-is a general contractor. The president says it is useless to expect Negro electricians, plumbers, carpenters, etc., to be sent from the hiring halls through which he employs his help. "There are no Negroes in the unions handling these jobs, and if there were, I would fully expect the Negroes to be sent out on jobs only after the last white man had been assigned.”

Another national concern with service facilities, warehouses and regional office responsibilities-holding large Federal contracts says it may bring the parking lot attendant in as a mail boy because the staff is used to seeing him around and "everybody likes him." But the manager was not interested in interviewing colored secretaries, although the company profits from volume Negro trade.

A plans-for-progress firm agreed to advise its employment agency that it would interview applicants for secretarial work irrespective of race. “But it will be useless," the manager says, "because you know as well as I do, that the white agencies won't register Negroes." When I suggest using newspaper advertising he intimates that the company doesn't recruit through press ads. A manufacturing company declines to employ Negroes, because, says the vice president, "That would be an open invitation to the unions to try to get into our plant."

Company MLT: A very large concern holding Government contracts with warehouses, service centers, and regional offices. A Negro secretary was interviewed by a private white employment agency which supplies clerical help for the firm. The personnel director had requested the agency not to advise the applicant which firm had placed the job order. The applicant was tested and met all of the qualifications. Feeling that the company would employ the applicant the agency set up an appointment for her to meet the personnel

director. A day before the scheduled appointment the personnel director canceled because "higher ups" had decided not to hire a Negro secretary: "The time is not right."

WRS corporation: Firm has a Government contract. It asked our help in locating a qualified electronic technician, junior grade, and an electrical engineering draftsman. Through the alumni office of one of the three Negro out-ofState colleges we tracked down two graduates whose training during their Navy service almost qualified one, and did qualify the other. Both were working out of State and could not come for personal interviews. Five weeks' time was required to make this much headway. The firm is patient and cooperative, but it cannot hold the opening indefinitely. The job will probably go to a qualified white applicant.

Senator CLARK. Before we recess I would like to place in the record the initial statement of President Kennedy at his press conference yesterday afternoon. I have it here and ask that it be printed in full.

I would comment and emphasize the statement of the President that the school dropout problem calls for an extraordinary effort on the part of all of us to try to persuade these young people not to drop out of school but to continue their education, pointing out the almost frightening results on their own careers if they do not get a high school education. I am sure I speak for all members of the subcommittee in giving our strong support to the President's plea in this regard.

I point out this is important not only in connection with the overall problems of youth employment but more specifically in connection with fair employment practices for young members of the labor force which, of course, is involved in our current consideration of fair employment practices legislation.

(The information referred to follows:)

OPENING STATEMENT OF THE PRESIDENT AT HIS PRESS CONFERENCE, THURSDAY, AUGUST 1

Good afternoon.

The end of this summer of 1963 will be an especially critical time for 400,000 young Americans who, according to experience of earlier years, will not return to school when the summer is ended.

Moreover, without a special effort to reverse this trend, another 700,000 students will return to school in September but will fail to complete the school year. The greatest growth in labor demand today is for highly trained professional workers with 16 or more years of education. The second fastest growing demand is for technical and semiprofessional workers with 1 to 3 years of post high school education.

Jobs filled by high school graduates rose 30 percent, while jobs for those with no secondary education decreased 25 percent.

We must therefore combat-intensify our efforts to meet this problem. We're now talking about the lives of a million young American boys and girls who will fail to meet their educational requirements in the next few months unless we do something about it. This is a serious national problem.

A boy or a girl has only a limited time in their life in which to get an education, and yet it will shape their whole lives and the lives of their children. So I am asking all American parents to urge their children to go back to school in September, to assist them in every way to stay in school.

I'm asking school principals, clergymen, trade union leaders, business leaders, everyone is this country to concern themselves.

Here is something that all of us can do in a practical way in the month of August and in the months to come.

One of the things which we're going to do here is to provide out of the Presidential emergency fund $250,000 on an emergency basis for guidance counselors in the month of August to see if we can get some of these boys and girls back to school. They will appreciate any effort we make for the rest of their lives.

Senator CLARK. The subcommittee will stand in recess.

I might say for the benefit of those interested that the subcommittee is going to have at least 1 more day on fair employment practices legislation. This will have to be arranged at a later date when we are better able to know when the witnesses we are most anxious to have appear before us will be available.

(Whereupon, at 11:57 a.m. the subcommittee recessed to reconvene at the call of the Chair.)

EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY

TUESDAY, AUGUST 20, 1963

U.S. SENATE,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON EMPLOYMENT AND MANPOWER

OF THE COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND PUBLIC WELFARE,

Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met at 10 a.m., pursuant to recess, in room 4232, New Senate Office Building, Hon. Joseph S. Clark (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Present: Senators Clark (presiding), Pell, Kennedy, and Javits. Committee staff members present: Stewart E. McClure, chief clerk; Edward D. Friedman, counsel; and Dr. Garth L. Mangum, research director of the subcommittee; Raymond D. Hurley and John Stringer, minority associate counsel.

Senator CLARK. The subcommittee will be in session.

I am happy to say that the Department of Justice has responded to our request for an opinion on the constitutionality of fair employment practices legislation.

I ask to have printed in the record a letter directed to me under date of August 15, from Deputy Attorney General Nicholas deB. Katzenbach, which after reviewing the pertinent cases concludes that it is the view of the Department that the fair employment practices bills pending before this subcommittee are constitutional.

In view of the importance of this letter I will ask the staff to have it reproduced and sent to all members of the subcommittee.

(The letter, dated August 15, 1963, from Deputy Attorney General Katzenbach follows:)

Hon. JOSEPH S. CLARK,

U.S. Senate, Washington, D.C.

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE,
OFFICE OF THE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL,
Washington, D.C., August 15, 1963.

DEAR SENATOR CLARK: This is in response to your letter of July 25, 1963, in which you request the views of the Department of Justice on the constitutionality of certain fair employment practices bills pending before the Subcommittee on Employment and Manpower.

We believe that the commerce clause of the Constitution (art. I, sec. 8) provides authority for Congress to enact fair employment practices legislation. The courts have repeatedly upheld the power of Congress to regulate employment relations affecting interstate and foreign commerce. Teras and New Orleans Railroad Co. v. Brotherhood of Railway Clerks, 281 U.S. 543 (1930); N.L.R.B. v. Jones and Laughlin Steel Corp., 301 U.S. 1 (1937); see also N.L.R.B. v. Fainblatt, 306 U.S. 601 (1939); Polish National Alliance v. N. L. R. B., 322 U.S. 643 (1944). Thus, in Jones and Laughlin, supra, the court said (301 U.S. at 33):

"Discrimination and coercion to prevent the free exercise of the right of employees to self-organization and representation is a proper subject for condemnation by competent legislative authority."