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but was the official organ deputed by the citi. Interview with New York Bankers. Lens to present them to him. He then remarked that in the memorial we

April 17-A committee of New York bankers, deplored the passage of the original legal tender capitalists, and merchants presented to the Presiacts, and he did not like that; that the war could DENT a petition signed by twenty-five hundred not have been successfully carried on without names, without distinction of party, asking him them, that the country had approved them, and to veto the Senate bill. The following was the he did not think it right that we should come to

PRESIDENT's reply: ask a favor of him and at the same time censure the progress of this bill through Congress with

The PRESIDENT, in reply, said he had wat his administration. I replied that neither I nor hands; that they desired the right thing to be He had at all times been entirely free in the ex; the citizens of Boston asked any favor at his more interest than he had any other measure done; that they had expressed their views of what the right was and presented them to him; pression of his views, and was always opposed that they did not claim infallibility, and that he to expansion without redemption, and in favor would act on his own judgment.

of free banking, accompanied with such legislaHe then said that Massachusetts and Rhode and the party in the direction of a resumption

tion as would carry out the pledges of Congress Islaud had more than their share of bank circu: of specie payments, but he had to look at this lation. To which I replied: "Take the excess away from them, for I will not ask for Massa- matter a little different from the views of this chusetts anything which I would not ask for any want, and may imagine-aa he might were he

committee. They show very well what they State in the Union; I have a letter from one bank president in Boston expressing a willing want what they do. The chairman of a similar

a citizen of New York-that the whole country ness to relinquish the circulation."

The PRESIDENT said he should not have al committee from Boston called on him yesterday. luded to this subject had it not been for the If he ever could be in favor of inflation, it would criticisms on his administration contained in the tleman advocated against it; but that position

be from the effects of such arguments as that genpaper.

I then said to him that the matters on which was unlike the one of this committee from New we had thus far conversed were collateral, and York. The gentleman from Boston, in behalf had no bearing on the questions at issue, which of those whom he represented, started out with were these two:

a condemnation of what he, the PRESIDENT, had Shall the public faith be preserved?

always believed to be right. Speaking as if he Shall we have a fixed standard of value, or States bonds with a surplus from the United

were wrong, they opposed the parchase of United enter upon a sea of irredeemable paper money?

That if the legal tender issues should be in: States Treasury; and if he had asked the Boston creased in a time of peace, with no public exi- committee what he should do, he would have gency, it would be a precedent for any and every kept such surplus in the Treasury until there luture Congress to enlarge them at will, and was not a green back in circulation. These bonds without limit. That I should like to ask him were purchased at his own direction. Another one question: Whether it would not meet his argument was used in the Boston memorial, views to keep the limit of three hundred and that the issue of greenbacks was of doubtful fifty-six millions of legal tender notes as now

legality, and was to be deplored, and had been established by law, to pass an act of indemnity sustained by a bare majority of one, of the Sufor the existing over issue of twenty-six millions, preme Court, as a war measure. In conclusion, and provide that as soon as the working balance the PRESIDENT repeated that his views on this in the Treasury should exceed ten or fifteen mil- question were already known as against inflalions, the excess of twenty-six millions should uion, and as opposed to breaking away from the be retired and canceled with the surplus. That,

redemption of pledges. with the addition to this of proper provision for rédemption, on demand, of bank circulation, that correspondence with Senator Jones might be increased, and that the country be sup

of Nevada. plied with all the currency which it desired, and

UNITED STATES SENATE CHAMBER, for which it could give security.

WASHINGTON, June 4, 1874. He remarked that we were now coming toward To the President: an accord; that he was not in favor of expansion, I was so deeply impressed by the clearness and and he wished to add that he did not intend to wisdom of the financial views (some of which tell me what he should do with the bill. you had fortunately reduced to writing) recently

I replied that I had not asked him that question, expressed by you in a conversation in which I nor did I intend to do so; that if I had done so had the honor, with a few others, to be a parI should have expected a reply which would ticipant, that I cannot dismiss them from my have deterred me from asking another question. mind. The great diversity of ideas upon this

I then said: “I have executed my commission subject, and the fact that public opinion con:and will not detain you longer in the press of cerning the same is still in process of formation your occupations." I bade him good morning, lead me to believe that the publication of these and the interview closed by his saying, "I am views would be productive of great good. I glad to have seen you."

venture therefore to request of you that I have Yours, respectfully,

a copy of the written memorandum to which I WILLIAM ĞRAY, Chairman. have alluded, with your permission, that it may Boston, April 21, 1874.

be made public.

I have the honor to be, very respectfully, your | a fixed day, say July 1, 1876, the currency issued obedient servant,

John P. JONES. by the United States should be redeemed in coin THE PRESIDENT'S REPLY.

on presentation to any assistant treasurer, and EXECUTIVE MANSION,

that all currency so redeemed should be canceled

and never be reissued. To effect this it would be WASHINGTON, D. C., June 4, 1874. DEAR SIR: Your note of this date, requesting in gold, bearing such interest as would coinmand


to authorize the issue of bonds payable & copy of a memorandum which I had prepared, expressive of my views upon the financial

ques- par in gold,

to be put out by the treasury only tion, and which you, with others, had heard in such sums as should from time to time be read, is received, but at too late an hour to com.

needed for the purpose of redemption. Such ply to-night. I will, however, take great plea- legislation would insure a return to sound finan

cial principles in two years, and would, in my sure in furnishing you a copy in the morning as soon as I can bave it copied.

judgment, work less hardship to the debtor in. It is proper that I should state that these terest than is likely to come from putting off views were reduced to writing, because I had

the day of final reckoning; been consulted on this question, not only by interest had its day of disadvantage also, when

It must be borne in mind, too, that the creditor some members of the conference committee, but by many other members of Congress. To avoid our present financial system was brought in by deemed this course both justifiable and proper: date fixed for redemption, no bill, whether of naany and all possibility of misunderstanding, I the supreme needs of the nation at the time. Y

would further provide that from and after the With this explanation, I inclose you


tional banks or of the United States, returned to the memorandum referred to. Very respectfully,


the treasury to be exchanged for new bills, should Hon. J. P. Jones, United States Senate.

be replaced by bills of less denomination than

ten dollars; and that, in one year after resumpMemorandum of Views entertained on the sub- tion, all bills of less than five dollars should be

ject of desirable Legislation on Finance. withdrawn from circulation, and in two years all I believe it a high and plain duty to return bills of less than ten dollars should be withdrawn. to a specie basis at the earliest practical day, not The advantage of this would be strength given only in compliance with legislative and party to the country against time of depression resultpledges, but as a step indispensable to national ing from war, failure of crops, or any other cause, lasting prosperity. 'I believe further that the by keeping always in the hands of the people a time has come when this can be done, or at least large supply of the precious metals. With all begun, with less embarrassment to every branch smaller transactions conducted in coin, many of industry than at any future time, after resort millions of it would be kept in constant use, and has been had to unstable and temporary expe- of course prevented from leaving the country. dients to stimulate unreal prosperity and specu- Undoubtedly a poorer currency will alwaysdrive lation on basis other than coin, the recognized the better out of circulation. With paper a medium of exchange throughout the commercial legal tender, and at a discount, gold and silver world. The particular mode selected to bring become articles of merchandise as much as wheat about a restoratiou of the specie standard is not or cotton. The surplus will find the best marof so much consequence as that some adequate ket it can. plan be devised, the time fixed when currency With small bills in circulation there is no use shall be exchanged for coin at par, and the plan for coin except to keep it in the vaults of banks adopted rigidly adhered to.

to redeem circulation. During periods of great It is not probable that any legislation sug: speculation and apparent prosperity there is gested by me would prove acceptable to both little demand for coin, and then it will flow out branches of Congress, and indeed, full discussion to a market when it can be made to earn somemight shake my own faith in the details of any thing, which it cannot do while lying idle. plan I might propose. I will, however, venture Gold, like anything else, when not needed beto state ihe general features of the action which comes a surplus, and, like every other surplus, it seems to me advisable in the financial platform seeks a market where it can find one. By giving on which I would stand, any departure from active employment to coin, however, its presence which would be in a spirit of concession and can, it seems to me, be secured, and the panics harmony in deference to conflicting opinions. and depressions which have occurred periodically

First. I would like to see the “legal-tender in times of nominal specie payments, if they canclause," so-called, repealed, the repeal to take not be wholly prevented, can at least be greatly effect at a future time, say July 1, 1875. This mitigated. Indeed, I question whether it would would cause all contracts made after that date have been found necessary to depart from the for wages, sale, &c., to be estimated in coin. It standard of specie in the trying day which gave would correct our notions of values. The specie birth to the first legal tender act had the country dollar would be the only dollar known as the taken the ground of “no small bills” as early as measure of equivalents. When debts afterwards 1850. contracted were paid in currency, instead of call- Again, I would provide an excess of revenue ing the paper dollar a dollar, and quoting gold over current expenditures. I would do this by at so much premium, we should think and speak rigid economy and by taxation where taxation of paper as at so much discount. This alone can best be borne. Increased revenue would would aid greatly in bringing the two curren-work a constant reduction of debt and interest, cies nearer together at par.

and would provide coin to meet demands on the Second. I would like to see a provision that at Treasury for the redemption of its notes, thereby diminishing the amount of bonds needed for that The President responded by saying that he purpose. All taxes, after resumption begins, was glad to meet them. He had always endeavshould be paid in coin or United States notes. ored to secure for the colored men all the rights

This would force redemption on the national which should accompany enfranchisement. Cerbanks.

tain rights are still withheld, but he hoped that With measures like these, or measures which ere long they would find themeelves in posseswould work out such results, I see no danger in sion of all the privileges which belong to free authorizing free banking without limit. men. He said he did not know wbat Congress

would do in the matter, but he thought it likely Interview with a Delegation from that that body would, at its present session, pass South Carolina.

a civil rights bill, and that if such a bill is de. [From the National Republican, March 28, 1874.] feated it will probably be because an extreme

THE PRESIDENT, in response, said that he very measure is urged by some person who claims to much deplored the condition of affairs in South be a particular friend of the colored man. Carolina, and that he had occasion in the past to speak with reference to a somewhat similar con- On the Duties of “Decoration Day." dition of affairs in Louisiana; but since the


EXECUTIVE MANSION, ernment of the State was complete, independent,

WASHINGTON, D. C., May 19, 1874. and sovereign, he could not undertake to say that DEAR CAPTAIN: I have your favor to me of either the administrative or the legislative de- the 10th inst., and have laid it before the PRESIpartment of the General Government would avail DENT, as you requested. He approves of the in effecting any change. Much of the existing resolution inviting the co-operation of those who condition was, perhaps, due to a sentiment stim- were opposed to us during the late war in the ulated by the gentlemen present. They had, by decoration of the graves of those who heroically their inaction, possibly stimulated the formation fell on both sides; and believes that the time of the very party of which complaint was made. has come when every evidence of such a feeling Still, the cause belonged to the results, the pas- of fraternal interest should be encouraged, and sions the natural offshoots of war, and he did advantage taken of every opportunity to bury not fail to recognize the cogency of the argu- deeper any animosity born of the late war that ments submitted.

may yet be lingering. It was not prudent, however, for him to take Very respectfully, your obedient servant, official action in the premises immediately, or to

Wm. H. CROOR commit himself to any line of policy.

To Capt. W. C. SPENCER, Baltimore, Md. In conclusion, the President said that, speaking from an individual standpoint, he had occa- Relative to the Louisiana Sufferers. sion to feel much chagrin at one of the speeches

EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENT, that had been made in the tax-payers' conven

STATE OF LOUISIANA, tion of South Carolina, because it contained much that was false, and it had abstracted somewhat President U.S. GRANT:

NEW ORLEANS, La., April 17, 1874. from the general sympathy which otherwise he

Theunprecedented rise in the Mississippi, aided might have freely expressed.

Several members of the delegation here fol- by violent local storms, has caused a most disaslowed with statements that the speech referred ishes of the State are already under water, and

trous overflow. Six or seven of the largest parto had not been made as represented on the floor thousands of people, white and black, are withof the convention, but had been garbled by the out food and shelter, and in danger of starvation, partisan press of the State, and made to subserve The emergency is so great that I feel constrained à purpose for which it was not designed. The disclaimers of the delegation, generally Government, if possible, to extend to these poor

to appeal to you directly, asking the General and generously made, apparently mollified the PRESIDENT, and the body left, if not with a

people the same relief that was given to the promise for their future, at least with hopes that scarcely more disastrous calamity at Chicago.

W. P. KELLOGG, something may yet be done for their State.

Governor of Louisiana On “Civil Rights."

EXECUTIVE Mansion, 1872, DECEMBER 10–The Louisiana delegation

WASHINGTON, D. C., April 17, 1874. to the National Civil Rights Convention visited Governor W. P. KELLOGG, New Orleans, La.: PRESIDENT GRANT in a body, and were intro- Your dispatch of this date asking aid for the duced by Senator West. In presenting the dele sufferers by the disastrous overflow of the lower gation the

Senator remarked that its members Mississippi is received. Congress being in sesembraced many of the intelligent working

re- sion at this time, I do not feel authorized to order publicans in the State. He then introduced Col. Government aid, as I did in the case of suffering onel James Lewis, who proceeded to address the from yellow fever at Shreveport and Memphis President, and said the delegation came to pay last summer, and in the case of the burning of their respects and thank him on behalf of the Chicago two years ago, without authority of colored people of Louislana for the care and pro-Congress. I will, however, send your dispatch tection they have received from him since his to the Louisiana delegation, and if a resolution presidential term commenced. He hoped that is passed by Congress authorizing it I will exert he might long enjoy the blessing of good health, every authorized means to avert suffering from and that the colored men might continue to re- the disaster which has overtaken the citizens of ceive his kind consideration and care.





Vetoing the Bill for the Relief of the General Craft, by whose immediate command the East Tennessee University, January property in question was destroyed, there was a 29, 1873.

large rebel force in the neighborhood who were To the Senate of the United States :

using the salt works, and had carried away a I have the honor to return herewith Senate considerable quantity of salt, and were preparbill number 490, entitled "An act for the relief ing to take more, as soon as the necessary trangof the East Tennessee University," without my portation could be procured; and he further approval.

states that the leaders of the rebellion calculated This claim, for which $18,500 are appropriated upon their supply of salt to come from these out of the moneys of the United States, arises in works,” and that in his opinion their destruction part for the destruction of property by troops in was a military necessity; I understand him to time of war, and therefore the same objections say, in effect, that the salt works were captured attach to it as were expressed in my message of from the rebels, that it was impracticable to hold June 1, 1872, returning the Senate bill awarding them, and that they were demolished, so as to $25,000 to J. Milton Best.

be of no further use to the enemy. If the precedent is once established that the

I cannot agree that the owners of property Government is liable for the ravages of war, the destroyed under such circumstances are er titled end of demands upon the public Treasury cannot to compensation therefor from the United States. be forecast.

Whatever other view may be taken of the subThe loyalty of the people of the section in ject, it is incontrovertible that these salt works which the university is located, under circum- were destroyed by the Union army while engaged stances of personal danger and trials, thus en- in regular military operations, and that the sole titling them to the most favorable construction object of their destruction was to weaken, cripple, of the obligation of the Government toward them, or defeat the armies of the so-called Southern is admitted; and nothing but regard for my duty

Confederacy. to the whole people, in opposing a principle which, I am greatly apprehensive that the allowance if allowed, will entail greater burdens upon the of this claim could and would be construed into whole than the relief which will be afforded to a


recognition of a principle binding the United part, by allowing this bill to become a law, could States to pay for all property which their miliinduce me to return it with objections.

tary forces destroyed in the late war for the Recognizing the claims of these citizens to Union. No liability by the Government to pay sympathy, and the most favorable consideration for property destroyed by the Union forces in of their claims by the Government, I would conducting a battle or siege has yet been claimed; heartily favor a donation of the amount appro- directly and strongly in that direction, for it is

but the precedent proposed by this bill leads priated by this bill for their relief.

U. S. Grant.

difficult, upon any ground of reason or justice,

to distinguish between a case of that kind and NotE.—A bill (S. 110) passed both Houses of the one under consideration. Had General Craft Congress at the late session, and became a law, and his command destroyed the salt works by appropriating eighteen thousand and five hun- shelling out the enemy found in their actual ocdred dollars, "in full compensation for aid given cupancy, the

case would not have been different by and on behalf of said East Tennessee Uni- in principle from the one presented in this bill. versity to the army of the United States in the What possible difference can it make in the rights late war of the rebellion."-EDITOR.

of owners or the obligations of the Government

whether the destruction was in driving the enemy Vetoing the Bill for the Relief of Suf- out or in keeping them out of the possession of ferers from the Destruction of the

the salt works? Manchester (Kentucky) Salt Works,

This bill does not present a case where private February 11, 1873.

property is taken for public use in any sense of

the Constitution. It was not taken from the To the Senate of the United States : I return herewith, without my approval, Senate then used by the Government, but destroyed.

owners, but from the enemy; and it was not bill No. 161, entitled " An act for the relief of Its destruction was one of the casualties of war, those suffering from the destruction of salt works and, though not happening in actual conflict, near Manchester, Kentucky, pursuant to the was perhaps as disastrous to the rebels as would order of Major General Carlos Buell." All the objections made by me to the bill for

have been a victory in battle. the relief of J. Milton Best,* and also of the East spread of a conflagration, as a general rule, are

Owners of property destroyed to prevent the Tennessee University, apply with equal force to not entitled to compensation therefor; and for this bill. According to the official report of Brigadier of property found in the hands of the public

reasons equally strong the necessary destruction *For this message, see McPherson's Hand-Book of enemy, and constituting a part of their military Politics for 1872, p. 32.

supplies, does not entitle the owner to indemnity

from the Government for damages to him in that the territorial Legislature with power which way.

would enable it, by creating judicatures of its I fully appreciate the hardship of the case, and own, or increasing the jurisdiction of courts apwould be glad if my convictions of duty allowed pointed by territorial authority, although recog. me to join in the proposed relief. But I cannot nized by Congress, to take the administration of consent to the doctrine which is found in this the law out of the hands of the judges appointed bill, as it seems to me, by which the national by the President or to interfere with their action. Treasury is exposed to all claims for property Several years of unhappy experience make it injured or destroyed by the armies of the United apparent that, in both of these respects the TerStates in the late protracted and destructive war ritory of Utah requires special legislation by in this country.

U. S. GRANT Congress. Public opinion in that Territory, pro

duced by circumstances too notorious to require Calling the attention of Congress to further notice, makes it necessary, in my opinion,

the condition of affairs in Utah in order to prevent the miscarriage of justice, and Territory, February 14, 1873. to maintain the supremacy of the laws of the

United States and of the Federal Government, To the Senate and House of Representatives : to provide that the selection of grand and petit

I consider it my duty to call the attention of jurors for the district courts, if not put under the Congress to the condition of affairs in the Terri- control of Federal officers, shall be placed in the tory of Utah, and to the dangers likely to arise, hands of persons entirely independent of those if it continues during the coming recess, from a who are determined not to enforce any act of threatened conflict between the Federal and ter- Congress obnoxious to them, and also to pass ritorial authorities.

some act which shall deprive the probate courts, No discussion is necessary in regard to the or any court created by the territorial Legislageneral policy of Congress respecting the Terri. ture, of any power to interfere with or impede tories of the United States, and I only wish now the action of the courts held by the United States to refer to so much of that policy as concerns judges. their judicial affairs and the enforcement of law I am convinced that, so long as Congress leaves within their borders.

the selection of jurors to the local authorities, it No material differences are found in respect to will be futile to make any effort to enforce laws these matters in the organic acts of the Territo- not acceptable to a majority of the people of the ries, but an examination of them will show that Territory, or which interferes with local prejait has been the invariable policy of Congress to dices or provides for the punishment of polygplace and keep their civil and criminal jurisdic- amy, or any of its affiliated vices or crimes. tion, with certain limited exceptions, in the I presume that Congress, in passing upon this hands of persons nominated by the President subject, will provide all reasonable and proper and confirmed by the Senate, and that the gen- safeguards to secure honest and impartial jurors, eral administration of justice should be as pre whose verdicts will command confidence, and be scribed by congressional enactment. Sometimes a guarantee of equal protection to all good and the power given to the territorial Legislatures law-abiding citizens, and at the same time make has been somewhat larger and sometimes some it understood that crime cannot be committed what smaller than the powers generally conferred with impunity. I have before said that, while Never, however, have powers been given to a the laws creating the several Territories have territorial Legislature inconsistent with the idea generally contained uniform provisions in respect that the general judicature of the Territory was to the judiciary, yet Congress has occasionally to be under the direct supervision of the National varied these provisions in minor details, as the Government.

circumstances of the Territory affected seem to Accordingly, the organic law creating the Ter- demand, and in creating the Territory of Utah ritory of Utah, passed September 9, 1850, pro-Congress evidently thought that circumstances vided for the appointment of a supreme court, there might require judicial remedies not necesthe judges of which are judges of the district sary in other Territories; for, by section nine of courts, à clerk, a marshal, and an attorney, and the act creating that Territory, it is provided to these Federal officers is confided jurisdiction that a writ of error may be brought from the in all important matters; but, as decided recently decision of any judge of the Supreme or District by the Supreme Court, the act requires jurors to Courts of the Territory to the Supreme Court of serve in these courts to be selected in such man. the United States upon any writ of habeas corner as the territorial Legislature sees fit to pre pus, involving the question of personal freescribe. It has undoubtedly been the desire of dom-a provision never inserted in any other Congress, so far as the same might be compatible territorial act except that creating the Territory with the supervisory control of the territorial of New Mexico. government, to leave the minor details connected This extraordinary provision shows that Conwith the administration of law to regulation by gress intended to mold the organic law to the local authority; but such a desire ought not to peculiar necessities of the Territory, and the leg. govern when the effect will be, owing to the islation which I now recommend is in full harpeculiar circumstances of the case, to produce a mony with the precedent thus established. conflict between the Federal and the territorial lám advised that United States courts in Utah authorities, or to impede the enforcement of law, have been greatly ernbarrassed by the action of or in any way to endanger the peace and good the territorial Legislature in conferring criminal order of the Territory.

jurisdiction and the power to issue writs of habEvidently it was never intended to entrust leas corpus on probate courts in the Territory,

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