now complained of has so grown up in Ireland; they must know the strength which it has attained, and the deep root which it has taken: they may try to put it down by an Act of Parliament; and they may do so-in twenty-four hours they may do so; but, if they do it, or attempt to do it, then, I say, they are unworthy of the smallest portion of that praise which they have received for the removal of even the most trifling restriction, which, in their liberal policy, they have removed from our foreign commerce, and for the which no man is more ready to give than myself. I say you may put down the Catholic Association in twenty-four hours; but, if you do, it is your own fault. You are conscious of the injuries you have inflicted on that body—you feel that you have denied to it even common justice -and now its ghost haunts you. If, however, you really wish to put that body down-if you wish to annihilate it for ever-then, I say, let the Roman Catholics know that you are determined to carry the question of emancipation. Let them know that you are determined, though late, to do them justice, and there is at once an end to the Catholic Association. That you may be so wise, so just, as to do this, instead of waging a harsh and impolitic war against 6,000,000 of oppressed subjects, is my most sincere wish; would I could say my most sanguine hope.

But I, Sir, am the defender of the Catholic Association; I am the advocate of the right of the Irish people to meet, to consider, to plan, to petition, to remonstrate, to demand; and my frank opinion is-an opinion which I set out with avowing, and which, I trust, will reach the whole of Ireland, as well as the whole of England-that the more energetic their remonstrance, provided that it be peaceable-the stronger the language they use, provided it be respectful-the more firm their port, the more lofty their demeanour, the more conformable it will be to the high interests of those who have all at stake, which can render life desirable, or existence honourable; and infinitely more likely to succeed than any abject course, which would imply self-distrust, or self-conviction of error. I trust, Sir, that, after this open declaration, I shall not be charged with blinking the real merits of the question, nor accused of courting a base and fleeting popularity, the value of which I know as well as the right honourable gentleman.

Such popularity I as well know how to give to the wind as the right honourable gentleman does. The cause which I have undertaken to-night I would abandon to-morrow if I thought my duty to the House, to Ireland, or to the empire, required the sacrifice. By no much mean motive as a love of popular favour am I actuated, but by the more sacred incentive of attachment to that cause of which I avow myself the advocate, and to which I am now about to do my duty, as I trust I should to any other client, if menaced with the danger of an oppressive law, sanctioned by the majority of this House.

Unlawful Societies in Ireland, Feb. 15, 1825.

Apology for the Violence of the Catholic Association.

We have been told that certain violent speeches have been made in the Catholic Association; it has been said that certain expressions have been used, which have been commented and played upon, and attacked, on the one hand, but still more ingeniously defended on the other. I am not here to defend any peculiar expressions used by that body; neither is it my intention to special plead or explain them away; but I do say, and I say it fearlessly, that to no one expression that I have heard can there be attached any unchristian, any illegal meaning. Nay, I will even go a step further, and say that, considering the situation in which the members of that body were placed; recollecting that the Legislature said to them, "We allow you to select from either House of Parliament who are to be your advocates, but you cannot have one who possesses your entire confidence, inasmuch as you cannot have for your advocate a member of your own religion;"-when I recollect that that body is so treated, and when I likewise know that years would scarcely suffice to tell the heads of the injuries under which they have been labouring, am I to be told that they are to be at once condemned, because, in a manifesto which all must admire, but the lowers of peace beyond all others, there occurred the phrase, "We conjure you, by the hatred you bear to Orangemen, to be at peace?" If they had commenced their address to the Catholic people by saying, "We command you, by the love you bear your Orange brethren, to be at peace," then we should have been told that it was a piece of hypocrisy on the part of the Association; and I must confess that, in that case, I for one should have turned from the document with disgust.

I know, Sir, that it is not the part of a Christian to hate any man; but, if ever there was an occasion which justified a set of persons in hating and execrating another set, that occasion presents itself in the case of the Roman Catholics of Ireland. It has occurred in the case of the oppressed Catholics against the Orange oppressor; and more particularly so at a time when they are to be put down by Orange violence and Orange tyranny, exercised against the great bulk of the people. We have been told that Mr. O'Connell has made use of strong language in the course of the discussions which took place in the Catholic Association. I do not deny that he has done so; but let me ask, Sir, what would be our case, and where should we be, senators though we be, and clothed as we are with all the solemnity of a legislative assembly, if we were to be told from another quarter that we were a turbulent and disorderly body; that we set a bad example to all other states? What should we think of such a denunciation? And yet I have heard in this House, ay, and even in the course of this night, language stronger, ay even a thousand-fold stronger, than any which ever came from the Catholic Association.

An honourable friend of mine (Mr. Grenfell) has, in the course of his speech, made use of an expression which, in the language of the lovers of strong liquor, would be called stout. The honourable gentleman, if I recollect right, said, in the course of his address,

"If the Catholics should resist oppressions which were no longer bearable, and if I were on my death-bed, I should pray to God that they might be successful."

Sir, I only allude to this expression of the honourable member for the purpose of showing that, when people feel warmly upon any subject, they indulge in a greater latitude of speech than usual; and I will boldly say that no member of the Catholic Association ever ventured one-thousandth part so far as my honourable friend did upon this occasion. But my honourable friend is not the only member I can point out as having, in the heat of debate, used what, elsewhere, would be called strong language. I well remember that the right honourable Attorney-General for Ireland, who was remarkable for his great zeal, for the force and power of his arguments, and for the admirable propriety with which he suited his expressions to his ideas and feelings, and in whom, therefore, a strong or hasty expression was not so excusable as in others-I remember, I say, when that right honourable gentleman, in one of the most eloquent speeches which it has fallen to my lot to read, used the following words when speaking of the Union: "I warn the Ministers of this country against persevering in the present system; let them not proceed to offer further violence to the settled principles, or to shake the settled loyalty, of this country. Let them not persist in the wicked and desperate doctrine which places British connexion in contradiction to Irish prudence. I revere them both; for myself, I have no hesitation in saying that, if the wanton ambition of a Minister should assault the freedom of Ireland, and compel me to the alternative between it and British connexion, I would fling that connexion to the winds, and I would clasp the independence of my country to my heart." I pray to God, Sir, that the right honourable and learned gentleman may never be called upon to redeem his pledge.

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The words here used are elegant and expressive, but they are strong; they were used by an honest man, a good Irishman, and a true patriot; but Sir, they were not used without some risk; he was on the very verge; and while I feel that, as an honest man, he would, if necessary, redeem that pledge, I cannot help reflecting that, in doing so, he would become a rebel to England. While such was the language of the right honourable and learned gentleman upon an occasion of emergency, the Catholic Association, who were enslaved, degraded, and oppressed, were expected to clothe their sentiments in expressions of love, and kindness, and forbearance. And this, too, towards a set of men who acted upon the devilish principle of retaining the shadow of the wrong, after the substance of it had been overcome; and this only for purposes of irritation and insult, and in order to keep in the minds of the oppressed a recollection of their degradation.

A speech made upon a most important occasion in Ireland, but not more im portant than was this question to the Roman Catholics.

Unanimity of the Catholics.

Sir, I advised the Roman Catholics to persist, not to be discouraged -to be peaceable and obedient to the law-to take all the constitutional means of resisting the passing of the bill; but, if it be passed, to submit with patience to its provisions, to adopt all due measures of self-defence, not by unlawful associations, but by such combinations as the law, even after the enactments of this Bill, must necessarily leave them, and in the end they need not despair of success. Do not let them think, listening to false friends, that going too far with moderation and conciliation will be of any avail. Above all, do not let them suppose that saying nothing, doing nothing, trusting to those who have abandoned them, or looking out for others, whom they have never tried, will ever accomplish the object on which they have so long set their hearts. Let them confide in their old friends, in their faithful and distinguished leaders, those enlightened men who have always ably advocated their cause-in such men as my venerable friend,* now far advanced in life, and spent in their service, the worthy successor of the revered Grattan. Let them proceed firmly in the course they have honourably commenced, and let them not forget to look to the Catholics of England; let them reflect on the admirable conduct of their brethren and fellow-sufferers here, who, having long tried what moderation, what passive obedience, what calm submission would do, and finding it would accomplish nothing, or rather, as in Ireland, aggravated the evils of which they complained, have at length come forward— and I glory that they have done so-to join hand and heart with the Irish Catholics for the attainment of one common object. A noble duke, whom I am proud to call my friend, who would be at the head of any society, but who is especially at the head of the Catholic Society of England, down to the lowest parish priest performing a weekly duty with his flock, have made common cause for a common end, and from this union I anticipate the happiest results. I am told by the right honourable secretary, that I know little of Englishmen if I think that a formidable attitude assumed by the Irish is likely to be attended with beneficial effects. This may be true. may be true that the English have never granted anything under the compulsion of fear; but if it be true, I do not know it, for history proves directly the reverse. I assert, on the contrary, and I defy him to contradict me, that the Roman Catholics have never obtained any concession, but when the Government of the day was influenced by apprehension. Times of peace, and peace only, added new sufferings and augmented privation. In 1778 the first step was gained by the Catholics, because the Government was under difficulties. In 1782 it had to deliberate with armed men, who extorted, by force, the independence of Ireland. In 1793 new fears prevailed, and new concessions were made, and it was then that the last boon was given, of the elective franchise. Is it true, then, that the Catholics have never obtained anything by assuming a formidable atti

Sir J. Newport.

It

tude? I call, then, upon the British House of Commons, not by any bad passions-not by the hatred you bear to oppressors-not by long-stifled enmity for the deepest injuries, but every principle most sacred to Christians-not by hatred, but by charity—not by revenge, but by conciliation: as you are statesmen, and have, in fact, the Government of the empire in your hands, I claim of you, by policy and by prudence, to look at this question fairly, and to consider the dreadful consequences which may result from passing this measure. Adopt it, and you alienate the Catholics for ever -you convert discontent into rage-you arm rage with new weapons; and upon your heads will be the consequences of this misguided and deluded policy. You, and you only, must be responsible, if the present Ireland be torn from the mother country. Unlawful Societies in Ireland, Feb. 17, 1825.

No Danger in Emancipation.

What could the Roman Catholics do if they were in power? I admit that they would have additional weight and influence, if they were intrusted with political power. But have they no power at this moment? That is my question; and I entreat the House to consider the subject in this point of view. They have much power; as great, in degree, as if they were admitted; but much worse than it could possibly be if they were received into the bosom of the Constitution. It is, at present, a dangerous, it may become a mischievous, a fatal, power. Let the Legislature, then, convert it into a regular, constitutional, proper power, and there is an end to the danger.

The door would then be effectually closed against any apprehended mischief. I will name no man; but this I will say, that greater natural abilities, more acquired talents, finer skill, and, what I should dread to encounter in an opponent, nicer discretion, I never saw displayed, in a more extensive degree, than I saw those qualities displayed by those who now conduct the affairs of the Roman Catholics. I repeat, that men of greater talents-men of more information-men of more practised skill-men possessing greater powers of self-command-men actuated by the dictates of a more sound judgment, or distinguished by a finer sense of discretion-I have never seen. I speak not merely from public report, but also from private conviction. These are the elements of public power. Men so accomplished-so richly endowed by natureso much improved by study-backed by their countrymen (I care not whether six, or five, or four millions)-such men, it must be admitted, possess power. That which I have described is power, or I know not what power is. The power which those persons wield is dreaded by the Government.

Why do I assert that it is dreaded? Because, to control that power, they broke through the principles of the Constitution, and enacted mischievous and revolting laws. My panacea is, "Give