Mr. ROBERTSON. I think when you have time to read that long and somewhat complicated question

Secretary JONES. It was very interesting.

Mr. ROBERTSON (indicating). You will agree with me that however much you regiment agriculture on the basis of an economy of scarcity, you cannot pour enough water into the farm-price barrel to offset the water that has already been poured into the labor-wage barrel and, if our farmers are to have a cash income comparable to that which they now enjoy based upon full production, that we must have a foreign outlet for a percentage of our cotton, of our wheat, of our lard, of our tobacco, of our apples, and maybe of the grapefruit from the fine district of my colleague to the right, from Texas [Mr. WEST).

Secretary Jones. Decidedly.

Mr. ROBERTSON. It is a fact, is it not, Mr. Secretary, that of those items we can, on a basis of an economy of abundance, produce more than we can domestically consume?

Secretary JoNEs. We certainly can.

Mr. ROBERTSON. Well, which would you rather see—the economy of scarcity, or an economy of abundance?

Secretary JONES. Of abundance.

Mr. ROBERTSON. And do you see how we can have a system of free enterprise in this Nation, and abundance, without international trade?

Secretary Jones. I do not.

Mr. ROBERTSON. Do you see how we can have international trade, selling our surplus abroad, unless we are willing to buy something from abroad?

Secretary JONES. That is obvious.

Mr. ROBERTSON. The fundamental meaning of reciprocity is to move to and fro. If we move something over there, they have to have something to move over to us, or there is no reciprocity.

Secretary Jones. If they cannot export—they cannot import.

Mr. ROBERTSON. And after observing over a period of years, and with your finger on the pulse of the lifeblood of business, which is cash, as well as being the head of the Department dealing primarily with commerce, it is your deliberate opinion that the reciprocal tradeagreements program has been helpful to domestic business; it has been helpful in cementing friendly relations with those whose good will has meant much to us in this struggle, and it gives hope of new horizons in the post-war era, based upon an economy of abundance functioning on the basis of American private enterprise?

Secretary Jones. I make an affirmative answer. It is a pretty long question, and a good many questions, but I am in accord with the observations you made. And if we want to sell our merchandise to other countries, we have to buy theirs; because there is no other way they can pay for it. We have all of the gold and I do not know what we are going to do with that; so that you can only trade on the trade basis—you can sell by buying and buy by selling, and that is the only way. It is a good deal like swapping knives, after all, and most of us know what swapping knives was in our boyhood days.

Mr. ROBERTSON. We announced to the world in the Atlantic Charter a program of freedom from want for the whole world?

Secretary JONES. Yes.

Mr. ROBERTSON. Can there be any freedom from want unless the natural resources of the world be distributed in a fair and equitable manner?

Secretary Jones. I would think not.

Mr. ROBERTSON. In the Atlantic Charter, we announced to the world a program of freedom from fear: Can there be any freedom from fear if we are regimented at home and if our foreign trade be regimented ?

Secretary JONES. I should think not.

Mr. ROBERTSON. Is there any post-war program more calculated to create fear of another armed conflict than a post-war program of international trade wars?

Secretary JONES. I think we have to have international trade after the war if we are to ever get back to a basis of peace.

Mr. ROBERTSON. Absolutely. Because if we start out cutting the throat of first one nation and then another nation in trade, we will

wind up

Secretary JoNEs. In war.
Mr. ROBERTSON. Thank you very much.

Mr. REED. Mr. Secretary, you have just listened to one of the greatest witnesses in the world.

Secretary Jones. I think he is a good witness. [Laughter.]

Mr. REED. Yes; he is a splendid witness. And you know, as an advocate, I do not think he has a 'superior in this country.

Secretary JONES. I think you are right. (Laughter.]

Mr. REED. I do not know how well you are acquainted with it, but I remember that under some of these agreements, birds-dead, dressed, or undressed, fresh, chilled, or frozen-had the tariff under the trade agreements lowered from 10 cents per pound to 6 cents per pound; ducks and geese from 10 cents a pound to 6 cents a pound. Then when the question of turkeys came up and, in the face of the action taken under these trade agreeemnts, this greatest of all Virginia advocates on lowering duties, surpassed by nobody in the country-

Mr. JFNKINS. Not even Patrick Henry.

Mr. REED. Patrick Henry was not in his class—he went down to the Secretary of State with the same arguments as to just how lowering the tariff might affect business and, you know, he shed tears down there and had everybody weeping because they were going to interfere with his turkeys and, out of all of the fowls dealt with under the trade agreement, the turkey tariff was the only one not reduced. He just simply is the most persuasive man I know of, and you handled yourself pretty well, because, if you had started to testify, he would have stopped you. He does the testifying when he gets a witness.

Secretary Jones. Well, I am much obliged to him. [Laughter.]

Mr. REED. I am just wondering, Mr. Secretary, if the trade agreements have really been quite beneficial to Texas.

Secretary JONES. I do not know about a particular State.
Mr. REED. Well, Texas is your State.

Secretary Jones. I believe trade agreements have been generally helpful.

Mr. REED. Do you think the trade-agreements program is helping the oil situation down there?

Secretary Jones. I do not know.

Mr. Reed. I wonder if we are going to get a little more testimony on that later?

Secretary Jones. I will be glad to furnish you with any information I have.

Mr. REED. I know you will, Mr. Secretary. I have dealt with you and you have certainly been most helpful. It is a pleasure to do business with you.

Secretary Jones. Thank you. Mr. REED. But you still have a ban on the import and export figures of 1941, do you not?

Secretary JONES. A ban?

Mr. REED. Yes; when we go to your Department we cannot get any information on exports and imports.

Secretary JONES. I did not know that. Mr. REED. Well, that seems to be the fact-it cannot be done. And, of course, that makes it a little difficult in dealing with this question.

Secretary JONES. Would you like me to try to get you the figures?

Mr. REED. Yes; I would like to know and would like to have them in respect both to war materials and nonwar materials, if I could, showing what proportion they were of the increase in foreign trade that you speak of here in your statement, where you say “Our foreign trade reached the low figure of $2,934,000,000 in 1932; t his was increased to $5,495,000,000 in 1939."

Secretary JONES. Yes.

Mr. REED. And, of course, that takes no account at all of the war period.

Secretary Jones. I will be glad to give you any figures that I am allowed to give you under the war regulations.

(The information requested is as follows:)

United States imports 1 of leading commodities: 1926-40 (in order of magnitude

in 1940

(Value in millions and tenths of millions of dollars. Items included in this table represented 81 precent of

imports for consumption in 1940)

Rubber, crude.

294. 4 Paper and manufactures.

151. 2 Newsprint

134. 2 Tin (bars, blocks, pigs).

88.9 Coffee

281.7 Silk, raw

368. 2 Cane sugar

207.3 Wool and mohair, unmanufactured.

78.8 Furs and manufactures..

114.8 Paper base stocks

114. 5 Wood pulp:

86.0 Copper, including ore and manufactures.

108. 2 For smelting, refining, and reexport. Petroleum and products

For manufacture in bond and reexport, 132.8

and for supplies of vessels. Fruits and nuts.

84.9 Chemicals and related products.

135.8 Chemicals (coal-tar, industrial, medicinal) 56.5 Fertilizers and materials.

68.0 Vegetable oils and fats, expressed.

81.9 Wines and spirits.

4 Hides and skins.

118.0 Burlaps

72.3 Diamonds

53. 1 Ferro-alloys.

18. 5 Nickel (ore, matte, and alloy).

12.5 Tobacco, unmanufactured.

57.0 Oilseeds

66.0

General imports through 1932, imports for consumption thereafter. Mainly for smelting, refining, and reexport. : Figures for all years are revised to exclude laths, shingles, pickets, and palings and to include siding and sawed railroad ties (hewn railroad ties are also included in 1926–30) box shocks are included beginning 1939.

- Includes sisal, manila, kapok, New Zealand fiber, crin vegetal, etc.

United States ex ports of leading commodities: 1926-40 (in order of magnitude in 1940)

Note.-Value in millions and tenths of millions of dollars. Items included 'in this table are United States

merchandise; they represented 86 percent of total exports of United States merchandise in 1940. Reexports not included.

in

Machinery 1.

Electrical, and apparatus.
Industrial

Metalworking machinery
Agricultural, and implements.
Iron and steel-mill products.

Iron and steel scrap ?
Aircraft, including parts and accessories
Petroleum and products :.

Crude petroleum.
Motor fuel and gasoline

Lubricating oil.
Automobiles, parts and accessories
Passenger cars (new).
Motortrucks (new).
Chemicals and related products

Chemicals (coal-tar. specialties,