Mr. PECORA. For what purpose did you jot down that memo randum? Mr. MILLS. It gives me no further recollection. Mr. PECORA. The next item seems to read: "6"--will you read it, please? I cannot decipher it. Mr. MILLS. I will if I can. Six depreciation bonds. I don't know what it means. It says: Mr. PECORA. What does the "6" mean? Does that mean six million? Mr. MILLS. I have no idea what it means. I presume so, but I don't know. The item doesn't refresh my recollection at all. Mr. PECORA. The next item reads: 4. Loan Detroit bankers. Does that refer to a $4,000,000 loan to the Detroit Bankers Co.! Mr. MILLS. Yes; it refers to that. Mr. PECORA. That was held by the bank? Mr. MILLS. Yes; substantially that figure. Mr. PECORA. It was a little under that figure, was it not? Mr. MILLS. I think it was a little under that. Mr. PECORA. Then there is a notation reading: Surety bonds too small. What was the purpose of making that notation? Mr. MILLS. I think the examiner stated that the surety bonds carried by the bank on the employees were too small, and it was a matter that he recommended should be increased and that we would look into it and go into it carefully. We went into it later. That was one of his suggestions, or criticisms, if you prefer to call it that. Mr. PECORA. On the last sheet of these memoranda appear to be written certain names, such as O'Brien Mr. MILLS. May I translate it for you? Mr. PECORA. Yes. Suppose you read it. Mr. MILLS. On the last page there are the following names: Buckly, Obindorfer, Jacobs, followed by the word in parentheses "live." May I explain this as I go along? Mr. PECORA. Yes. Mr. MILLS. I have a recollection of this. We asked him as to what loaning officers he considered weak and which ones he consid ered good. We thought that this field examiner, if that is what he is called, who had been in there for several weeks, would state and we would like to check up his judgment with our own. We did not take his judgment as being infallible by a long ways, nor our own. We wanted his judgment, and my recollection is that he stated he preferred not to name the weak ones, that we would probably know whe they were. But after some urging on our part he said Mr. Buckly, Mr. Obindorfer, Mr. Jacobs, Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Truettner, Mr. Romer, Mr. Gaines, Mr. Robert Locke, Mr. Livingston, Mr. Chittenden, Mr. Bodde-they were good loaning officers. That is the way my recollection is refreshed from the memorandum before me. Those are the names that I have read, and in most cases I know very distinctly that he praised them. Senator COUZENS. There is nothing on the list about the bad ones? Mr. MILLS. He preferred not to go into any names. I think you know them probably as well as I do. I do not believe he mentioned the name of a loaning officer that he considered bad, although I asked him to. That is the best of my recollection. Then follows two more lines Controller of loans. He suggested that we establish an officer called the controller of loans, which we did very shortly thereafter. The next one is "See Utt." Mr. PECORA. He was the field examiner that made this examination? Mr. MILLS. Yes; I think so. It may be that that was a memorandum that occurred to my mind to have him talk with Utt to see who he thought were the better men in the bank. I don't know whether that was it or not, but it is to the best of my recollection. Mr. PECORA. Reference has been made in the course of your testimony and Judge Murfin's testimony to a Mr. Joseph M. Dodge? Mr. MILLS. Yes, sir. Mr. PECORA. He was one of the vice presidents of the bank, was he not? Mr. MILLS. He was, sir. Mr. PECORA. I show you what purports to be a photostatic reproduction of a memorandum addressed to you, signed with the initials "J. M. D.", and dated February 3, 1933. Will you look at it and tell me if you recognize it to be a true and correct copy of a memorandum which you received from Mr. Dodge on or about the date which it bears? Mr. MILLS. I do not recall the memorandum, but I do not doubt at all that I had it. I remember there being some talk on that subject matter which I vetoed and put up to the governing committee and it vetoed. Mr. PECORA. I offer it in evidence. The CHAIRMAN. Let it be admitted. (Photostatic copy of memorandum dated Feb. 3, 1933, addressed to Wilson W. Mills and signed "J. M. D. ", was received in evidence and marked "Committee Exhibit No. 139, Feb. 6, 1934.") Mr. PECORA. The memorandum just received in evidence as exhibit 139 reads as follows [reading]: To: Wilson W. Mills Date: February 3, 1933 COMMITTEE EXHIBIT NO. 139 Mr. Pletsch suggests it would be advisable, and a good political move, if we, as an Institution, would make some kind of a donation to the Democratic State Administration that will be used to help defray the expenses of some of the members of the Legislature who are now residing in the Roosevelt Hotel at Lansing at the expense of various members of the Administration who are trying to hold them in line and keep them out of the hands of lobbyists and others for whom they would be easy prey because of their personal financial difficulties. He suggests that anything of this kind should be given to Mr. O'Hara, and recites the facts, first-because Mr. O'Hara has contributed very liberally for the above purpose, and second-he has shown an unquestionable disposition to be cooperative. Mr. Pletsch calls attention to the fact that the following five matters have been broached to him, on which #1 and #4 have been adjusted to our satisfaction: 1. Ohlander 2. State Banking Commissioner 3. Insurance on County Funds 4. State Highway Department 5. U.S. Government Bonds-State Treasurer. It is suggested that $500.00 would be a suitable amount. JMD: IMCH J. M. D. Mr. MILLS. You see, Senator, we invited suggestions and criticisms from every officer of the bank. That was one that undoubt edly Mr. Pletsch made to Mr. Dodge and he passed on to me. Senator COUZENS. Mr. Dodge must have thought well of it when he passed it on to you. Mr. MILLS. He may have passed it on to me with a sense of humor. I do not think Mr. Dodge for a moment thought any such thing as that would be done. Mr. PECORA. Would he indicate in this formal fashion matters that were dictated by a sense of humor? Mr. MILLS. He might. Mr. PECORA. Do you think he did that in this instance because he was actuated by a sense of humor? Mr. MILLS. I do not know what was in his mind. Mr. PECORA. Did you discuss this memorandum with Mr. Dodge after you received it? Mr. MILLS. I do not recall receiving it. I know we gave nothing to it. Senator COUZENS. You said you discussed it with the board of directors. Mr. MILLS. Then I must have received it. Senator COUZENS. Then you must have thought pretty well of it! Mr. MILLS. Oh, no, Senator. I recall showing this to the govern ing committee, that it had been suggested, but of course it could not be done, and the matter brought forth laughter. Senator COUZENS. Mr. Dodge must have at least impressed you sufficiently to take the matter up with the governing board! Mr. MILLS. Oh, no. He is the secretary of the governing board. He may have read it as a joke. I think it is a joke. Mr. PECORA. Was it a joke when he said?— Mr. Pletsch calls attention to the fact that the following five matters have been broached to him, on which no. 1 and no. 4 have been adjusted to our satisfaction. No. 1 is Ohlander and no. 4 is State highway department. It apparently relates to something that had taken place. Mr. MILLS. I will say this, that I do not believe Mr. Pletsch was actuated by a sense of humor in this memorandum. I will say that. I do not think he was actuated by a sense of humor at all. Mr. PECORA. Who is the Mr. O'Hara referred to in this memoran dum of Dodge? Mr. MILLS. I presume he is county clerk, but I am not certain. Mr. PECORA. County clerk, where? Mr. MILLS. Wayne County. I believe that is his name, but I am not certain. Mr. PECORA. What was the suggestion that led to Mr. O'Hara having given a donation to be used for the purposes indicated in this memorandum? Mr. MILLS. I know nothing more than what the memorandum says, except that not a nickel was given. Mr. PECORA. Let me remind you again of this portion of this memorandum which says: Mr. Pletsch calls attention to the fact that the following five matters have been broached to him, on which No. 1 and No. 4 have been adjusted to our satisfaction. The second one of those five matters enumerated in the memorandum has reference to State banking commissioner. What does that mean? Mr. MILLS. I have not the slightest idea. Mr. PECORA. What did you understand it to mean? Mr. MILLS. Just as I stated, I am not certain-yes; I heard the memorandum read; I must have heard it read, but it gives me no recollection at all. Mr. PECORA. Was there any joke being discussed relating to the State banking commissioner? Mr. MILLS. I do not recall any joke. I do not recall the matter at all. We were not interested in the matter of the State banking commissioner. We were a national bank. Senator COUZENS. The Detroit Bankers Co. did have some State bank affiliates, did it not? Mr. MILLS. We owned the Peoples Wayne County Bank in Wayne County. It may have had some reference to that. I do not know what the reference was. Mr. PECORA. In what respect, to your knowledge, had Mr. O'Hara shown-to read from this memorandum-" an unquestionable disposition to be cooperative"? Mr. MILLS. I know nothing about it except that I remember Mr. Pletsch introducing Mr. O'Hara to me after the election. That is all I know. He was a friend of Mr. O'Hara's. He introduced me to aim. Senator COUZENS. Where is Mr. Pletsch now? Mr. MILLS. In Detroit. Senator COUZENS. Do you know what he is doing? Mr. MILLS. I do not, Senator. Senator COUZENS. How long since he left that bank? Mr. MILLS. He was there at the end, Senator. Senator COUZENS. At the time of the receivership and the closng up? Mr. MILLS. Yes. He may still be with the receiver; I do not know. Mr. PECORA. This memorandum is dated February 3, 1933, which was just 8 or 9 days prior to the declaration of the banking holiday by the Governor. Does that date suggest a reason for reference to he State banking commissioner in this memorandum? Mr. MILLS. No. The only thing that it might suggest-I should 1ot say this, because I do not know, but it may be that his term was: out. I don't know whether it was or not. Mr. PECORA. If it was out, what was the occasion for any reference to it in this memorandum which is addressed to you? Mr. MILLS. He may have been a friend of Pletsch's or an enemy of Pletsch's; I don't know. Mr. PECORA. Is it customary for Pletsch to have communicated to you through Mr. Dodge statements about his friends or enemies! What interest did you have in Pletsch's friends or enemies! Mr. MILLS. Not the slightest, any more than I had interest in that whole memorandum. Mr. PECORA. What was the reference to United States Government bonds-State treasurer? There was nothing frivolous about that. was there? Mr. MILLS. No; I think I know something about what must have been in their minds there. There was a bill pending at Lansing be fore the State legislature, which finally passed, I was informed-I am not certain of it-which provided that State funds might, instead of being deposited in banks-and as I recall the State law, they had to be segregated-might be invested in United States Government bonds. I know there was such a bill pending. What happened to it I am not certain. Mr. PECORA. Well, Mr. Mills, was there any bill pending with reference to anyone named Ohlander? Mr. MILLS. Öhlander was the-well, I don't know who he is, upon my soul, at the moment. I cannot say whether he was the highway commissioner or something of that sort; but I can find out in one moment who he was. Mr. PECORA. All right. Mr. MILLS (after inquiring of Mr. Long). Ohlander was chief of the State police. I should have known him. Mr. PECORA. Chief of the State police? Mr. MILLS. Yes, sir. Mr. PECORA. What was the occasion for Mr. Dodge making refer ence to Ohlander to you? Mr. MILLS. Because Mr. Pletsch mentioned Ohlander. Mr. PECORA. Well, if Pletsch mentioned Ohlander he must have mentioned him in a manner which warranted Mr. Dodge passing along Pletsch's mention of him to you in some way or other. Mr. MILLS. I don't remember what the reference was to Ohlander. You observed that I did not know just now who he was. Mr. PECORA. But I am asking what was the reason, if you know. Mr. MILLS. I don't know. Mr. PECORA. For the mention of Ohlander by Pletsch to Dodge and by Dodge to you. Mr. MILLS. I don't know. I haven't the slightest idea. Senator COUZENS. Didn't the condition of those legislators, a enumerated by Mr. Dodge, put a shudder into you? me. Mr. MILLS. Yes, Senator Couzens; I think it put a shudder into [Laughter.] The CHAIRMAN. You were, apparently, willing to leave them helpless in that hotel. Mr. MILLS. So far as the bankers were concerned, or so far as I was concerned, they were left helpless. And I continued to shudder [Laughter.] |