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sources. If we try to cover the whole earth and heaven above and the future life with our conservation movement, we shall bite off more than we can chew, if you will excuse the slang. I have no objection whatever to any of the great civic movements. This is not a civic movement in the ordinary sense; it is a movement for the right use of the natural resources of the earth. We cannot afford to spend all or a half of five per cent of our time in the discussion of human forces, except as they are concerned directly with natural resources. Unless I am mistaken in the temper of the conservation movement, if we include all of the forces that make for the uplifting of humanity, we shall go too far and attempt too much, and shall go outside the province of the conservation movement. I therefore move as an amendment to this clause that this proposed organization shall be for the right use of natural resources, and no more. MR. IRw1N, of Oregon: I second the amendment. MR. LIBBY : My motion is to the effect that the wording of that clause be changed so that the object of the association shall be confined to the conservation of natural TeSO111 CeS. HoN. G. F. CottERILL : I would move that the recommendation of the committee be adopted as read. MR. Jon Es, of Seattle: I rise to a point of order and to object to the amendment to the motion. We adopted parliamentary proceedings from the beginning, and if not we ought to have done so. We have just passed on the adopting or rejecting of this report by sections, hence according to all parliamentary usage it cannot reverse its action on the same subject. I believe also, with the mover of the amendment, that there is some disposition to railroad this through without due consideration. Now I have sat here for two days, listening to the able addresses, and have been much interested and instructed, but when we came to the business management of this meeting we were told by the temporary management that this was a meeting of the people to consider the business interests of this country. Now that we are coming to the business end of it let us not rush it through without due consideration. I like the term “association” better than “congress” but that is merely a matter of sentiment. Now, however, we have a motion to head off any further debate.

MR. CotterilL: The motion I made was that this second section of the Committee's report should be adopted as read.

Miss GILLEtt : I wish to ask if the amendment that Mr. Libby is proposing will confine the Congress to merely natural resources, and if that means that the work of Mrs. Foster and other women that this Congress represents is to be laid aside?

MRs. CARR, of Seattle: I should like to ask one question, whether the mover of the amendment considers the human mind a natural resource or a supernatural resource?

MR. LIBBY : Women who know me know that I am second to none in my respect for woman-kind. This however, in my opinion, is a movement for the conservation of the natural resources of the earth, but it is not a civic movement; it is, as I have said, a movement for the conservation of the natural resources of the earth, to prevent the waste of those resources.

The amendment was then put to the meeting, and lost, and the original Section 2 was adopted as read.

Sections 3 and 4 were then adopted.

Section 5.

Miss PARKER, of Seattle: I should like to ask how the

Conservation Commission in each State is chosen 2

MR. PINC Hot : The commission is chosen in various ways. The members are usually appointed by the gover

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nor, and consist of men who have made a study of the subject and are giving their time without receiving a cent for their labor. MR. LIBBY : It seems to me a very great mistake to recognize officially in this manner State commissions. They are purely official, whereas State associations are popular associations. It seems to me a natural organization should have affiliation with State popular associations and not with State official commissions. Perhaps you may say that that is a distinction without a difference, but there is a great difference if you stop to think of it. I move to substitute the word “Secretary” in the first line instead of “Chairman,” and the word “association” in the second line in place of “commission.” MR. LIVINGston, of California: I second the amendment. MR. PINCHot : I do not see any objection whatever to the Congress going with the State commissions; but I would point out that there are forty-two commissions and only two or three associations. MR. R. W. Douglas: I might say that in the organization of this Congress I have been in correspondence with various parts of the United States and have only located three private associations and forty-one State commissions. Miss BARKER, of Seattle: Do the conservation associations have anything to do with these commissions? MR. PIN CHOT : The State conservation commissions are appointed by governors, as a rule, and State conservation associations are voluntary associations formed by citizens. MR. A. A. BARTow: This is not a matter for undue excitement or haste. It is a legitimate business transaction; it has two distinct sides to it, as every question has, and Mr. Libby has pointed out the other side. You know and I know that politics does cut a figure in the appointment of anybody by a governor. We are designing to keep this out of any politics; we are designing to make it a popular movement to promote the best ideas of the best men and women of this country. Now, without any personal feeling in the matter, without any prejudice so far as I know, I am in favor of some action which will best advance the objects we are aiming at. It seems there is a lack of State associations at this time, and therefore I will suggest that the action of the committee be endorsed at least for the present, but that we limit it if possible to the coming year, giving a chance for other organizations in other States to take up the work. MR. ALDRED, of Rhode Island: I think the contention of Mr. Libby is thoroughly right, and every member of the committee which has threshed this matter out carefully agrees with him. He wants to see this in the hands of the people. Every member of the committee has discussed that point and has sought and knows the facts, as Mr. Douglas and Mr. Pinchot have brought out, that we cannot put it in the hands of the associations, because there are only three in existence. As a matter of fact these State commissioners are appointed by governors, but there is no money in the positions; they are almost without exception men who are devoting their time and money to these objects. They are powerful, but not powerful politically. The only men that this committee could find to carry out the objects we are striving for and to make it a popular movement are the State commissioners; the chairman of these State commissions are not politicians but enthusiasts, and there is no one more in favor of its being a purely popular movement. The Committee went into this thoroughly and came to the conclusion that the only way to bring about the objects of this Congress was to have the section as it is here framed.

MR. HUTCHINson, of Nevada: As I was requested by the Committee to represent it on the floor that must be my apology for again addressing the Congress. The truth of the matter is, Sections 5 and 6 should be considered together, thus answering the questions raised by these gentlemen, and really answering also the questions of Mr. Libby. The committee to be appointed by Section 6 is a committee which is to report at the next Congress, so there is nothing to fear in the meantime.

MR. LIBBY : With the consent of my seconder, I wish to change my motion. I do not care whether it be “chairman” or “secretary” in the first line, but would move that in place of the word “commission” we substitute the word “association,” providing that in such places where there is no association such affiliations shall be with the State commissions.

MR. KNUDSEN: Why not bring in the associations also and have the forty-one commissions and the three associations working together on this?

MR. Pope, of New Jersey: I represent the American Institute of Electrical Engineers, an international organization, and sufficiently interested in this subject to send me out here as a delegate. Unless this question of associations is broadened a little it will cut out the four national engineering societies, than whom there are no others more greatly interested.

MR. HUTCHINSON : I think it will meet the views of the gentlemen who have spoken if after the words “chairman of each State conservation commission” the words are inserted “and the secretary of each State conservation association.”

This was put as an amendment, seconded, and duly carried, and the motion that Section 5 should be adopted was carried unanimously.

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