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I believe it would not be difficult to explain to the public at large the advantages that will accrue to our total economy, and that thereby are bound to accrue to individuals.

Mr. JUDD. I hope you make a lot of headway on that. I grant that probably a general poll would favor, but it might be an uninformed poll. Sometimes the officers of an organization like a labor organization write us in favor of something, but the members of the local union write in and oppose our doing what the national officers say is in their best interests.

The greatest obstacle is lack of confidence that our representatives in ITO will administer it primarily in American interests. Every one of the six or eight proposals for economic recovery that have been before us since the end of the war and before, has been presented in the most glowing terms. However, each time we have had to put through a further program to support the program just before. The people have been oversold on such things. Inevitably there followed a reaction like that which is now widespread regarding the United Nations. It was going to be the cure of everything. I warned before its adoption that while it was not as bad as its opponents claimed, it was not as good as its advocates claimed. The overoptimism led to a general attitude of defeatism. That prevails strongly in Congress with respect to ITO. There is a feeling of cynicism:

"Mr. Schramm says it would help private enterprise, it would provide a means, it would be in our interests." But does he know? They do not believe it, frankly.

They say, "Well, Mr. Schramm 'hopes' it will or 'believes' it will, but despite all the promises, we feel it is probably going to be like all the other programs before it which did not come up to predictions."

Mr. FULTON. I believe the witness is waiting to say "Yes" at some point, here.

Mr. JUDD. The fact remains that if we do not get all these objections out on the record in this committee, you will get defeat down on the floor. Do you want defeat down there?

Mr. FULTON. I am trying to help the witness.

Mr. JUDD. I am trying to help the bill. Mr. Schramm does not need any help. I am appealing for help from all the people who are the advocates and who have given it much time and thought that perhaps few Congressmen can give it and also attend to their other duties. Therefore, you people have to do not only the advocating but a lot of the devising of practical, sellable solutions to these hard difficulties, or you will not get it through.

Mr. SCHRAMM. I share with you, Dr. Judd, very heartily, some qualms about how things of this nature will be administered and whether or not our interests will truly be protected. However, as a subsidiary agency of the United Nations, if the pattern that has already been established by our representatives in other agencies of the United Nations is followed, I, personally, haven't any very serious fears.

On the matter of what the reaction of people is in the country, if I may speak to your first point, I have been very much interested as I have traveled around the State of Iowa during the last several months, talking to a good many groups of people about a good many different subjects; and these include labor leaders, farm leaders, and industrial

leaders; all of them I believe know of my interest in the Habana charter, and many of them I have spoken to about it.

I have run into only one person who strongly disagrees with my point of view and I have found very enthusiastic, hearty support for the Habana charter expressed by important members of organized labor, from all of the top farm leaders whom I know, and many of the farmers and great numbers of businessmen. I really believe that it has very substantial popular support, at least in my area.

Mr. JUDD. Of course, one of the great advantages of this program is that it does not require a large appropriation of money. It is not an operating agency in the sense of handling large quantities of commodities. Therefore, one of the most potent arguments is that at least it cannot do any harm, because it does not have very many teeth, as has been pointed out here previously.

Thank you very much for coming, Mr. Schramm and may we wish you a pleasant journey back to Burlington.

Mr. SCHRAMM. Thank you very much.

Mr. ZABLOCKI (presiding). Mr. Fulton, do you have any questions? Mr. FULTON. I wish to say I agree with Mr. Schramm's statement. I am glad to see the problem approached on such a broad basis.

The charter has been followed through on a bipartisan basis in its preparation. Mr. Javits of this committee and I have been delegates representing the United States under the leadership of Will Clayton at the time of the final preparation of the charter.

I want to comment in closing that I am pleased to see that from your interest in the charter, you have received favorable reports from the average person. I feel that it is favored generally as a possible means of avoiding the next war and all these cartels and government operations we have had in the past.

I might ask you if this might not be a suggestion: You must look at the purchaser in the United States who purchases goods in competition for less. That is the first approach. When he pays less for goods, he then has other money in his pocket which is unused purchasing power. Is that not correct?

Mr. SCHRAMM. Yes.

Mr. FULTON. So there are other goods of either a similar nature or different nature which may be purchased. Instead of one pair of shoes, he might buy two pairs of shoes, an American and a foreign pair of shoes, with the same money.

Secondly, if not used for shoes, for example, it might go into another line. So there is really, then, not the loss to the economy through good competition, if the goods are produced by democratic means— that means by neither forced labor, slave labor, or under sweatshop conditions.

That is a good thing for the economy generally, do you not think? Mr. SCHRAMM. Yes; I do.

Mr. FULTON. After all, under a democracy the basis of the economy is a freedom of choice to choose whatever a person would like at the cheapest cost with the best value and then have money left to buy something else.

When you arbitrarily buy at farm price supports that are rigid and make us in the cities pay for storing dried eggs, we are throwing things away and you are thereby in a way defeating the best interests of the

whole country. Since you come from Iowa, I will not ask you to comment on that one.

Mr. SCHRAMM. Thank you.

Mr. JUDD. I am glad you gave him an opportunity to say "Yes" or "No."

Mr. FULTON. In closing, I might say I am a Republican representing South Pittsburgh and I want to compliment you on having a good bit the same ideas, coming from Iowa, because I think there is a new life and new hope in the Republican Party.

Thank you very much.

Mr. ZABLOCKI (presiding). Thank you very much, Mr. Schramm. Without objection, the committee will adjourn, to reconvene at 2:30 p.m. this afternoon.

(Whereupon, at 12:55 p. m. the committee adjourned to reconvene at 2:30 p. m.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

The committee reconvened at 2:30 p. m., Hon. A. S. J. Carnahan presiding.

Mr. CARNAHAN. The committee will please come to order.

Mr. VORYS. Mr. Chairman, I think in view of the fact that only three members are present and the most important and largest bill of the session is on the floor, we ought to have a quorum in the committee, and since we do not have a quorum I move we adjourn. I do not think we can do justice to ourselves or the House or the witnesses by following this sort of procedure. We owe it to our constituents to be present in the House when that enormous appropriation bill is on the floor where the other 22 members of this committee are.

Mr. CARNAHAN. Is the gentleman making the point of order that a quorum is not present?

Mr. VORYS. Yes.

Mr. CARNAHAN. Evidently a quorum is not present; so the committee will stand adjourned until 10 a. m. tomorrow.

(Whereupon the committee adjourned until 10 a. m. on Wednesday, April 26, 1950.)

65515-50-11

MEMBERSHIP AND PARTICIPATION BY THE UNITED STATES IN THE INTERNATIONAL TRADE ORGANIZATION

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 26, 1950

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS,

Washington, D. C.

The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10: 15 a. m., in the Foreign Affairs committee room, United States Capitol, Hon. Mike Mansfield presiding.

Mr. MANSFIELD (presiding). The hearing will come to order.
Our first witness will be Mr. O. R. Strackbein.

Mr. Strackbein, will you proceed with your testimony.

STATEMENT OF 0. R. STRACKBEIN, CHAIRMAN, THE NATIONAL LABOR-MANAGEMENT COUNCIL ON FOREIGN TRADE POLICY

Mr. STRACKBEIN. Mr. Chairman, I am the chairman of the National Labor-Management Council on Foreign Trade Policy and also executive secretary of America's Wage Earners Protective Conference. In addition to that, I represent this morning the Board of Governors of the International Allied Printing Trades Association, which is the governing body of the five standard printing trades affiliated with the American Federation of Labor.

I must say that their interest in this charter comes from the possible impact of the charter, if it were adopted, upon the so-called manufacturing clause of our copyright law. I have a statement here, Mr. Chairman, which I would like to make, if I may.

Mr. MANSFIELD (presiding). Proceed.

Mr. STRACKBEIN. The objectives of the International Trade Organization as set forth in the Habana charter are very broad. The first goal is the assurance of (a) “a large and steadily growing volume of real income and effective demand," and (b) an increase in "production, consumption, and exchange of goods" as a contribution to "a balanced and expanding world economy."

This grand objective is integrated with article 55 of the United Nations Charter which aims at the attainment of "higher standards of living, full employment, and conditions of economic and social progress and development."

The remaining five objectives in the Habana charter are given equal weight to this first one, but they appear in fact to be subsidiary to it and merely expressive of the means by which the real goal; that is, the first one, is to be achieved.

These other objectives include the 'industrial and general economic development" of backward countries and encouragement of the "international flow of capital for productive investment." This proposal has subsequently emerged independently and substantially as the President's Point IV program.

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