opinion as to the propriety of the course which the Government are inviting the House to pursue, still I do not deny-on the contrary I maintain—that this distress and this misery must be met by the exertions of the Irish proprietors themselves. MR. LEFROY rose on the present occasion, not so much from a desire to oppose what had fallen from the noble Lord the Chief Secretary for Ireland, as from a feeling that he would not be discharging his duty faithfully, if he did not state a few facts that came within his own observation, showing that, however distress might exist in certain districts in Ireland, that it was by no means so general in that country as they had been led to believe. He did not intend to contradict the statements that had been made by the noble Lord (Lord Lincoln) in reference to the distress that was said to exist in Limerick and the county of Clare. All that he was prepared to do, was to show that, so far as the circumstances of Ireland were concerned, they did not warrant the measures proposed by the right hon. Baronet; and if they were carried, that they would prove most detrimental to the interests of that country; and that the time would come when they would regret their adoption. He was desirous to state that, from inquiries he had made into the condition of the people in those districts in Ireland, with which he was more immediately connected, he found that the reports of the existing distress had been much exaggerated. He would first allude to the county of Longford; and with the permission of the House would read the following extract of a letter which he had received from a gentleman in Longford, dated Granard, April 14:— thank God, little or no fever, and very little sick- "I have this day," wrote one correspondent, suffered very severely-perhaps more so than any other town in Ireland—some of the medical gentlemen of Sligo had told him "For twenty years I have not seen this market (Mr. Lefroy) that he had not now any viobetter supplied with potatoes, oats, and meal than lent cases of bowel attacks arising from it was yesterday-the former 4d. the stone, good want of food, or any fever; and the physiand sound, and in such quantities that all were not sold; oats 13s. 6d. the barrel of 14 stone; cian who had supplied the statement to the and meal, of which there was a large supply, sold Government as to the existence of disease at 14s. 6d. per cwt. This report would apply to in that county, could not be considered as the market yesterday week, and yesterday fortcompetent to do so, as he lived on the bornight; and I have no doubt but that the resources of this part of Longford will be found more than ders of the county Mayo, and had no openough for the consumption during the summer, portunity of judging of the general state of leaving a large surplus which may be, as necessity the county. Sir Robert Booth, Mr. Cooper, requires, drafted off to some other part of Ireland. and Mr. Wynne, gentlemen resident there, I attended the market of Castlepollar last Wed-had also stated that there was no appearnesday, which is ten miles from Granard, nearer Dublin, I there witnessed also a plentiful market, a very large supply of potatoes particularly, which were sound and good, selling at 43d. per stone. The people, I am happy to say, in his (I mean my own) locality are generally employed, and have taken the precautions, by means of the loan funds, of laying up provisions for the summer. We have, ance of famine; and their statements, he said, were deserving of consideration. The hon. Member read another letter he had received from a gentleman in the county of Armagh, who resided in the neighbourhood of the Duke of Manchester's property, to the following effect. It was dated March of food in the neighbourhood; and I am happy to 27, 1846: : "In reply to your inquiries on the subject of fever and famine, I beg to offer the following opinion. Never has there been so shameful an exaggeration on any subject within my memory, as that which has been put forward by the advocates for the repeal of the Corn Laws. With regard to fever, we might ssy, as compared with other years, there is none; and as to famine, there is abundance of food, and the price is moderate. The only pressure is in cases of looms being idle and weavers unemployed, partly caused owing to the unsettled state of affairs between America and the British Government, and partly by the suspense caused by the Corn Law question. I shall now give my reasons for the opinion I put forward:-1. As to fever. Whenever our district has been visited with fever to any extent, I am immediately made acquainted with it through one or other of the following channels:-1st. The parochial clergy frequently apply for aid to such persons as they find in fever and requiring aid. 2nd. The medical attendant, who has the care of the tenancy, and to whom they have access, not unfrequently asks for additional bedding to separate members of the same family to prevent contagion. 3rd. The borrowers at the loan fund are obliged to have my signature to prevent fines in case of accidental illness, and especially fever, and in the latter case I never refuse it. And lastly, the poor in fever come to me for jam, tea, sugar, and bread, which are generally supplied on demand, as a gift to those thus afflicted. Now, what is the fact? There has not been an instance of a clergyman recommending any one to me in fever since the potato panic commenced. The medical attendant has called my attention to but one case of fever within the same period. There are not three cases of fever in families connected with the loan fund; and lastly, I have had only one case of clothing and one of food as necessary to fever patients. We shall now turn to the question of famine. When others were laying in oatmeal, I was advised by experienced merchants to buy none. Those who bought at that time (September and October) at 17s. 6d. per cwt. for oatmeal, can now have abundance at 15s. I lately entered into contracts with persons who sell meal, to supply all I should order at the market price each week. The want is so little felt as yet, that I have not issued orders for above 10 cwt. of meal. Those who had diseased potatoes were not altogether losers, in proof of which I may mention this fact, that the steward sold this week the pork fed exclusively on bad potatoes in the castle farmyard for nearly 401. The pigs cost 187., so that 227. profit on eleven pigs, or 221. each, was a very good return in four months." He had been assured also by a physician residing in the same county (Armagh), in the town of Portadown, that the cases of fever had been less in number than at any former period within his recollec tion. That gentleman said— "Portadown, March 28, 1846. "In answering your note of this day, I have to say that, along with all the other dispensary and fever hospital doctors of the kingdom, I was furnished with a number of questions from Dublin Castle respecting fever and apprehended scarcity Third VOL. LXXXVI. {Series} say that my answers did not suit their purpose. The truth is, there has been less illness, and particularly fever, in this part of the country this winter than almost any other I remember; and, of course, I made my answer accordingly, and it is remarkable, that out of 800 cases, they received only 82 answers betokening fever, bowel complaint, &c., and, as you might observe, many of these only in apprehension, which was the way the question was put. Now as to our locality: I can give, after counting up, the number of fever patients in my dispensary-book since the 1st of January, and I find I have had 19 out of 1,400 patients, which I look upon as exceedingly small out of that number of patients, and for the space of three months. The year before last registered somewhat above 800 patients who had fever; but that was an extraordinary year. The year preceding it, and last year, were each about 150; so you can see, take it in either way, the proportion is small. At present I have not three cases in hand; and I am sure there are not ten cases in Drumaree parish, which, according to the census, contains 15,000 inhabitants; besides, this is generally the most subject to fever of any country I know. The district about Jandreyee, I would say, is equally free of fever extending on to Scarva, which is the terminus of my visiting, and within two miles of your own residence; so that, judging from all these circumstances, I would say that your parish cannot be much infected. As to all other sickness, our dispensary report does not exceed last year, nor until the last fortnight did it equal last season in number of patients, which has been increased just lately by a feverish cold or influenza, and a diarrhoa which is just now present, and which I cannot justly trace to unwholesome food." Another correspondent writes "I dined in company with five clergymen on Friday last, who have large parishes, and their decided opinion was, that there never was so little fever as this year. Some of them said they had none; others mentioned one or two cases. They all agreed also in saying that as yet there was no distress of any peculiar degree." Having considered it his duty to make these statements, it was not his intention to deny the existence of distress in certain parts of Ireland, as he considered it did exist in several places; but he agreed with his hon. Friend the Member for Northamptonshire in opinion, that that distress had in many cases been caused by a combination of persons, who prevented a sufficient supply of food being sent into the markets, which, as a matter of course, tended to raise the prices. He would, however, suggest to Her Majesty's Government, that they ought to take measures for the distribution of the Indian corn and meal, in such a manner as would defeat that combination. [The Earl of LINCOLN: It has been done already.] Some reflections had been thrown upon the resident gentlemen of Ireland, for not having availed themselves of the "special sessions" that had been K tion; but it must be apparent to any man who viewed the present state of things, and recollected the past, that it was no light matter which had caused so great a difference between him and a large portion of his followers. Those followers of the right hon. Baronet had given repeated and signal proofs of how desirous they were to remain attached to him. For his financial policy they were willing to do him full justice. They sacrificed many minor con ordered to be held, for the purpose of affording relief to the distressed people; but he was informed that the reason of their not having done so arose from the fact that the assizes were so near at hand, that had they taken such measures as was expected they would have done, they considered that they would be conferring benefits on local contractors alone, and not on the people who required assistance; and it was to that circumstance their conduct should be ascribed, and not to any indif-siderations and many points of detail sooner ference regarding the wants of the poor in their respective localities. MR. BORTHWICK rose to say a few words before the House decided upon the Motion submitted by his hon. Friend. The right hon. Baronet at the head of Her Majesty's Government had declared his intention of walking in the light of the Constitution. He was not, however, one who asserted that the Corn Laws was a part of the Constitution. The right hon. Baronet had declared those laws to be unjust, which, but a short time since he deemed to be only impolitic; and what the extent of his next conviction might be, was most difficult to tell. He would read to the House a few lines written by one of the most celebrated men of the age in which he lived he meant Sir Walter Scottwhen comparing Louis the Sixteenth of France with Charles the First of England, which appeared to him to be eminently characteristic of the conduct of the right hon. Baronet. The hon. Member read the following extract: than separate from the right hon. Baronet: when the question was not mere detail or of slight import, but one involving a great principle upon which the most important interests of this country depended, they were obliged, however reluctantly, to act for themselves, and to stand by those opinions which they believed to be based upon justice and on a sound policy, and to which they had always adhered. They were, he repeated, prepared to follow the right hon. Baronet wherever he led them, but they were not prepared to see him-in the language of Lord Castlereagh-turning his back upon himself; so long as he walked in a straight and open line of policy-80 long as he was guided by the light of the Constitution, so long they were prepared to submit to his leadership; but when he deviated from that path, and would no longer be guided by that light-when he turned into the course selected by his opponents, that party would follow him no further. The right hon. Baronet had stated that what he had before thought impolitic, he now believed to be unjust. This he thought rather a strange expression from one so eminent. For let them consider what it really amounted to-that for thirty years he had been unable to discover what justice was; but notwithstanding this extraordinary blindness, he became suddenly illuminated, so that he was able to discover it in the course of a single debate. Now it might be fairly said, that policy was the birth of circumstances, for what was politic last year might be impolitic this; but justice was eternal and immutableHe trusted that the right hon. Baronet, the same thirty years ago as she was now who had at one time declared the Corn-the same at the beginning of this debate, Laws to be impolitic, and at another unjust, would, ere long, like Louis XVI., his illustrious prototype, return to his original position; and that the consequences of his changes of opinion might not be visited on his country he would not say upon himself. He did not accuse the right hon. Baronet of acting upon other than sincere convic "Both sovereigns fell under the suspicion of being deceitful and insincere, when perhaps both, but certainly Louis, only changed his course of conduct from a change of his own opinion, or from suffering himself to be over-persuaded and deferring to the sentiments of others. Few mo narchs of any country certainly have changed their counsels and measures so often as Louis XVI., and with this unhappy consequence, that he neither persevered in a firm and severe course of government long enough to inspire respect, nor in a conciliatory and yielding policy for a sufficient time to propitiate regard and inspire confidence. It is with regret we mention this, in a character otherwise so excellent." He as she was at the end or middle of it. roughly acquainted with the machinery and working of the State, perceive what was just from what was unjust? The best statesman might err as regarded matters of policy; but he who could mistake injustice for justice, wrong for right, must be surely the reverse of all that they believed the right hon. Baronet to be. M. Guizot, in the French Chamber, used these words: Sir Robert Peel, therefore, proposes to put those branches of national industry which can accept the contest without perishing, to this proof of foreign competition. But do not think on that account that Sir Robert Peel has ceased to be a Conservative in political economy. Do not think that he has abolished, or that he means to abolish, all protecting duties. You can pass in review all the duties established by this new Tariff, as my hon. Friend the Minister of Commerce said yes terday, and you will find that many protecting duties continue to exist in it, and protecting duties of a very efficacious kind. Sir Robert Peel does not mean blindly to give up the market of England to foreign industry. He is not the apostle of unlimited liberty of commerce. He is merely the partisan of foreign competition limited to certain conditions. Gentlemen, that is the true character, the real end of the measures which are at the present moment under discussion on the other side of the channel. What is there in the measures for us to sdopt? The first of these measures, namely, the social reform which interests the manufacturing population, I hesitate not to say is not applicable to us." His noble Friend the Member for Lynn referred to those words to show that foreign countries were not quite so ready to adopt the right hon. Baronet's policy as he seemed to anticipate; and the right hon. Baronet in reply said, and his reply was rather remarkable, that "he never gave a guarantee that at the approach of a new election the French Minister would say that restrictions should be removed. Which amounted to this-that M. Guizot held certain opinions, but would not avow them; that he thought it a better course to secure a majority in the Chamber first, and to betray them after. Surely that was not the conduct of a great statesman, such as they had been assured M. Guizot was. M. Cunin Gridaine, the French Minister of Commerce, speaking on the question of the Treaty of Commerce between France and Belgium, says The economical reforms proposed in the British Parliament cannot fail to have occupied general attention. Those who think that we should not hesitate to imitate the example given us by the English Parliament, advise a premature and dangerous act. England has never pursued any other line of conduct than that of her interest; and she was right. It is in that particular we should imitate her. From the earliest period it has been the aim of England to extend her manufactures, her navy, her commerce, and to obtain She did not suffer herself to be carried away by in all cases an advantage over her competitors. theories; she consulted facts. She studied her position, compared it with that of other countries, I must here and she acted accordingly. remark, however, that England does not in any way modify her colonial system. That is to say, she continues to reserve for herself the manufac tures, navigation, and commerce, which ought to administer to the wants of 100,000,000 consumers." It was no wonder that foreign countries should hail with pleasure the relaxations proposed by the right hon. Gentleman. But the question was, were they prepared to act in the same spirit of reciprocity? The hon. Gentleman, who was at this portion of his speech but imperfectly heard, then alluded to the following passage of the speech of M. Guizot : stand in need of any such social reform, for our "What is the position of France? We do not manufacturing population is much less numerous tively speaking, better off than the same class in than our agricultural population, and is, comparaEngland, nor is it subject to the fluctuations which periodically affect the British markets. Thus we are not called upon to imitate the social senting so interesting a spectacle. Neither are reform now passing in England, and there preand for this reason, that for a series of years we we called upon to imitate her commercial reform, have been proceeding step by step in the path of industrial reforms, and for the further reason, that the home market is more valuable than the foreign." M. Guizot expressed his surprise at the immense disparity between the manufacturing and agricultural population of this country, deceived, no doubt, by the Population Returns of 1841; and more false returns had never been laid upon the Table of that House, no, not even by the Board of Trade. In these returns, every blacksmith, every man who fashioned the ploughshare and the horseshoe, who, in fact, lived by the farmer, was returned as a manufacturer. Every tailor who made clothes for the farmer and his children— every village sempstress, in short, every description of artificer who lived almost solely upon the farmer and his labourers, was returned as a manufacturer. These people were all returned to that House as a Great Britain. The speech of the right portion of the manufacturing population of hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel), in reply to his noble Friend the Member for Lynn, was a complete failure. To that noble Lord's arguments he did not even attempt a reply. As regarded the Irish famine, of which they had heard so much in the com mencement of these debates, he would read an extract from the Kilkenny Moderator, copied into the Morning Post of this day "Distress, in some few instances deep and dire, no doubt there is, and no doubt it will increase as summer advances; but then it must be taken into consideration that when the seed will have been sown, potatoes must fall in price. There is an abundant stock of sound potatoes in the country, which is merely withheld from the market on the speculation of commanding an increased price hereafter. The following is the return which we have obtained from the Fever Hospital:Patients admitted for the quarter ending Feb. 1, 1846 For the quarter ending May 1, 1846 Decrease as compared with the cor- . 329 83 84 This statement did not seem to confirm the this great question presents itself-Can in fairness any Minister of the Crown propose to the people of Great Britain to take out of the taxes of Great Britain, public money, to aid in the sustenance of their fellow countrymen in Ireland, while, artificially, by laws so designed, the price of the food of the people of Great Britain is enhanced? Other persons may be bold enough to make such a proposition; but I confess that no power on earth should have induced me to be responsible for such a proposal. I told my right hon. Friend that, if such a course should be necessary, I strongly advised the suspension of the existing law; and that suspension, I find, is now generally approved of on this side of the House. The humane, the generous feelings of the landlords of England could not tolerate for a moment that distress, such as that likely to visit Ireland, should not be met." There had been-there would have been— no objection on any side of the House to relieving the wants of the Irish people. 330 The Government would have experienced 246 no difficulty whatever in such a step--they had experienced none. What hon. Members near him complained of was, not that relief had been applied, but that it had not been applied earlier. They further complained that a temporary exigency should be met by a permanent measure-that principles upon which the whole commercial policy of this country was governed should be overturned to meet a pressing but fleeting evil, for which it was altogether unfit. But let them consider the policy of the should Ireland be made the pretext for inGovernment upon another ground. Why troducing this measure at all? If the measure was just, per se, it ought to be supported. If the present law was unjust, it ought to be abolished. If the case amounted to one of justice or injustice, as had been the state of Ireland at all. The right hon. stated, there was no need of dragging in of the kingdom, drawn an imaginary line Baronet had, speaking of the agriculture from Inverness to Southampton, stating that exceedingly little wheat was grown on the west of that line; but such was not the fact. A great deal of wheat was grown west of it, and some of the best wheat in the kingdom, too. But what was to become of those small farmers and their labourers whom, the right hon. Baronet had the admitted, this measure would have effect of destroying? They were accus. tomed at public dinners to quote the wellknown lines of Goldsmith- dance of food in Ireland? The fact could not be denied. But even supposing there The hon. Member for Liverpool said last night that he could not see that connexion; and the hon. Member for Northamptonshire, following the same track, has also said that he did not see the intimate connexion between the two questions. Will the House, then, allow me to state what was the effect produced on my mind by this inevitable coming scarcity in Ireland? I foresaw, and I am afraid rightly, that it would be indispensably necessary to give to the suffering community in Ireland aid from the public purse of this country to meet this great calamity. Already some advances of the public money have been asked for, and I am afraid that further advances may still be necessary. Then |