1838. Sept. 14. 73s. 12. 28. Oct. 5. 12. 19. 26. hear the explanation of my noble Friend. No importation exceeding 15,027 Quarters. Prices gradually rose, the greatest rise being 6s. 2d. In the month of August only 907 quarters of foreign wheat were imported. Sir, I think that I have shown clearly that farmers must be an easily deluded set, if they will believe that the introduction of 1,500,000 of quarters of foreign grain will enhance the price of English wheat, or be any benefit to them. I refer back again to 1838, when, as I before stated, upwards of 1,500,000 quarters were imported, and will read a description of the markets, during several weeks in September and October of that year, as yet set forth in Knight's Political Dictionary: 16 20 1s. Od. 8 8 21 8 22 8 During the week of nominal duty no less than 1,514,047 quarters of foreign wheat were liberated from bond, and flung suddenly into the English markets, deranging every calculation of the merchant and farmer, but affording a rich harvest to the speculators. The cargoes which arrived too late to profit by the low duties perished in the warehouses, and were thrown into the sea when they became unfit for human food. As I have before stated, the result was to reduce the price of wheat to the full extent, 12s. a quarter, and, therefore, if the experience of the past is worth anything, it will be this, that the farmers of England will learn that they ought to keep away from foreign importation as long as possible, as the bringing into consumption those 1,500,000 quarters of wheat will only be to reduce prices. Is there anything in the state of the markets, either as to the existing prices or the quantity that is to be consumed, which should induce us to forget the interest of the farmer for the sake of the consumer? The average price of wheat on the 25th of April was no more than 55s. 6d., and that, Sir, is within the range of 54s. and 56s., which, four years ago, the right hon. Baronet at the head of Her Majesty's Government stated was the price which would generally be obtained by the operation of his Bill. Well, Sir, has the supply and the consumption been affected by the stagnation in the corn market? I have taken the trouble to compare the quantity of grain sold in England within the last four weeks with the quantity sold during the same period of last year, which is as follows. The noble Lord read the following: Brought forward 170 9,203 1,382 So that in this year of stagnation of trade, in this year of famine, there have been 116,000 quarters more of grain sold in the 288 markets of England than were sold in the four corresponding weeks of last year. Let the farmers of England recollect that this grain is of their own growth, for there has been scarcely any foreign grain introduced into the markets during the last month, which shows clearly that they possess an advantage so long as this delay is continued, which permits them to retain a monopoly of their markets; and the people of England are not suffering from any stint whilst they have the means of purchasing 116,000 quarters more within the last four weeks than in four weeks of the year that is gone by. I hope, therefore, if there is any farmer who has been led to believe, from false friends, that his interests are suffering by not having an immediate settlement of this question, he will now know that it is not so, but quite the contrary; and in reference to the statement that prices would be improved by the infusion of foreign corn, I think I have shown that there can be no proof of that assertion. Sir, again, with respect to prices. We are told that this is a year of famine; and I find, upon comparing the price of this year with the price of last year-which, I believe, was the cheapest year since 1836 -I find that wheat has risen in price 21 per cent, oats 11 per cent, and rye 201 per cent; whilst every other description of grain has fallen in a great degree. I am therefore surprised, when I hear people talk of famine, to find that wheat has risen only 21 per cent upon the price of that year, and when it was the very lowest; and the food of the people of Ireland has risen only 10 per cent, therefore, I am reduced to think that those who talk of famine do not know much about it. Sir, on a former occasion I showed, succesfully, I believe, to this House, that the fluctuations in the price of wheat had been much lower in this country since the Bill of 1842 had become the law of this country. I was answered again, by being told that the price of wheat in foreign countries was dependent upon the price of wheat in this country-an assertion which I am not disposed to admit. Rye and oats have not been considered of so much importance as other kinds of grain in this country, and therefore there has not been the same facility for discovering their respective prices, Sir, I have been enabled to obtain an account of the prices and fluctuations of rye and oats in several countries in Europe from 1835 to 1840, which were as follows: OATS. Highest (1840) 30 0 per cent. 172 1838 per cent. 163 Lowest (1836) 11 0f would not be encouraged. We were told that Prussia was already shaken. Sir, Namely, highest, 29s. 3d.; lowest, 11s. 3d. We were told once before, by the hon. and Highest (1839) 20 0】 Lowest (1837) 10 9 100 1837 70 Namely, highest, 17s.; lowest, 108. Now, Sir, when it is recollected, that after the passing of the Corn Bill of 1842, that the fluctuations of prices in this country have never exceeded 30 per cent in the food of the people, it must be evident, that those people who rely upon the principle that the repeal of the Corn Laws will create greater steadiness of prices, will find that they are much mistaken; for instead of prices obtaining greater steadiness, they must, by a repeal of the Corn Laws, be affected by the fluctuations of other countries. The late Mr. Huskisson, who has been always considered a good authority, and whose opinions have often been referred to, held the language from 1814 down to the period of his death, that the prices should remain steady, and it was fluctuation which most affected the interests of the country; therefore, Sir, if I have shown you that not only in wheat, but in rye and oats, the food of the people of those countries-that in all foreign countries, the fluctuations in prices have been much greater than in England during the existence of the sliding-scale; unless you are able to refute those statements of mine the ground is cut from under your feet, when you endeavour to impress upon the farmers that the country will prosper under a repeal of the Corn Laws to a greater extent than under that of the sliding-scale. Sir, we were told in the early part of this discussion, that it was for us to choose as our motto, "Advance" or "Recede." We were told by the right hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury, that if we made our election to advance, we should raise the watchword for all the nations of Europe and America-that there would be no State of Europe or America in which the friends of commercial freedom learned Member for Bolton, that Prussia was determined to retreat-that we had only to mitigate our laws regarding corn and timber, and that Prussia would immediately relax her restrictions. Well, Sir, we do largely relax, both in regard to timber and corn; but Prussia has not been shaken -Prussia has not relaxed-but has drawn closer the laws with regard to her trade with this country. Sir, we were told that if we relaxed, it would have a great effect upon the French Government that reflecting minds in France would be enabled successfully to work with the Chambers of France, and the authorities which consist of the commercial interests of the country. Sir, when the right hon. Baronet comes down to this House, and states that the Government of France are willing to relax her laws, we take it for granted that the right hon. Gentleman has some formal information to that effect. But, Sir, what is the course that has been adopted by the Ministers of France? Do M. Guizot and the other Ministers seize the opportunity of expressing their admiration of the policy of England, and give the highest praise to the right hon. Gentleman? Far from it: they tell the people of France that France is not prepared to tread in the path of England. Sir, do not we find that France has not adopted the watchword, or attempted to avail herself of the relaxation in our duties? When we find that the promise of the right hon. Gentleman has no chance of being fulfilled, you are not entitled to say that she acts with any degree of reciprocity. The language used by M. Guizot is as remarkable as it is beautiful; and I am sure the House will excuse me for reading a passage from the report of the French Chambers on the 1st of April last. M. Guizot says― will "No one, Gentlemen, is a greater friend than I am to the influence of landed property, and, I interests in a great country. I am convinced that say, to the preponderance of the agricultural that interest is the best and most solid foundation for the prosperity and the security of society. I am, then, for my own part, a very sincere and very decided friend of the influence of the agricultural in England in particular it is the influence of landinterest in a great country. No one can deny that ed property, of the agricultural interest, to the influence of what people have been in the habit of calling the territorial aristocracy, that England owes its strength, and a great part of its liberties, class what all great nations will find among the and its prosperity. England has found in that same class, while they search for it, the spirit of conservatism and the spirit of independence at the same time; that is to say, the two great pledges of liberty and political power." These, Sir, are the sentiments of one of the wisest Ministers that ever governed a great country. These are the sentiments of one of the wisest Ministers-of one of the wisest Monarchs, that ever reigned over France. These are the sentiments once entertained by Her Majesty's Ministers; and happy would it be, in my opinion, for England, if she now had Ministers sitting on those benches who entertained opinions expressed with so much eloquence in the Chamber of Deputies on the first day of April last. But, Sir, if such have been the language and sentiments of M. Guizot, it is for this House and for the country to consider what has been the language of this Minister so far as the proposed relaxations are concerned; and what his disposition to adopt a system of reciprocity. Speaking of Sir Robert Peel's plan, he says "Let us, therefore, lay the first portion of Sir Robert Peel's plan aside. It is a great and beautiful spectacle given to us, but there is nothing in it which we should hurry ourselves to take or to apply at home. Let us, then, look to the second. Gentlemen, the second part, the extension of competition as applied to the different branches of national industry, my hon. Friend the Minister of Commerce frankly told you yesterday was the very plan on which the French Government has been acting for several years past. It is true that in the matter of industry we are conversators, we are protectors. We intend to maintain the conservative system and the protecting system; but we also intend to modify, to enlarge, and to soften it in proportion as new wants may require, and as the change or new opportunities may cast up. Not only do we intend to do this, but we have always done it. How many prohibitions have been abolished since 1830? How many tariffs have been lowered? If a table of these abolitions and reductions were placed before you, you would see what progress we have already made in that course, truly liberal and reforming, while it is at the same time moderate and prudent." I wish the First Minister of this country showed the same prudence as has been manifested by the Ministsr of a foreign country. What are the sentiments of the French Minister of Commerce? Speaking of the commercial reforms of the English Ministry, he says— The economical reforms proposed in the British Parliament cannot fail to have fixed the genenot hesitate to imitate the example given us by the English Parliament, advise a premature and dangerous act." ral attention. Those who think that we should I do not think, notwithstanding what has been said to the contrary, that Prussia will fall into our line of policy. I do not think that the success of the principles hitherto acted upon in Prussia will induce her to an abandonment of her present course. When the right hon. Baronet talked about Prussia, and anticipated such flattering results from the reciprocity system, I think he found himself in the same fool's paradise as was expressed by my right hon. Friend the Secretary at War, referring to the hon. and learned Gentleman the Member for Bolton. Prussia may, indeed, rejoice at being able to export larger quantities of timber and corn; but I do not think it will be found that she will import more of our cotton manufactures, of our printed calicoes, than she does at present. Now, Sir, with respect to America. Do you think the United States of America are prepared to abolish her hostile tariffs? Does the last news from America display any intention of adopting such a line of policy? I think not. It is apparent from the latest information, that there is no probability of her being able to spare the revenue which is at present raised by her high tariffs. Well, then, Sir, is there anything that has transpired since the last discussion upon the Corn Laws in this House, to make us lean more strongly to the policy of Government respecting them? Has anything transpired with regard to Ireland, out of which the right hon. Baronet can argue that the protective system ought to be done away with? Has that potato famine which it was at first predicted would occur in February -afterwards, as the debate wore on, was postponed till March-and then, as this discussion drew "its slow length along,' was put off again until May, when it was solemnly declared, in prophetic tones, that that month would not have arrived until all his melancholy forebodings had been confirmed-has that famine, I say, Sir, arrived yet? The fulfilment of the last I ask the Government, has that potato prophecy was postponed until July. Now, famine happened? So far from it, Sir, I believe, generally speaking, the prices of potatoes have fallen, rather than increased in the course of the last few weeks. Unquestionably, there is far from being a famine anywhere; nor can it be said, except in a few localities, that there is even greater than even ordinary scarcity. Scarcity there may be-which, unfortunately, is nothing new in many districts in Ireland; but famine is quite a different thing. In Cork, we were told, the greatest scarcity prevailed. We were told that in the city of Cork there was great scar bought it up for gain, would be able to sell it again at famine price. If the price of food in Ireland was at one period unnaturally high, it was in a great measure caused by the alarm wickedly and unfoundedly raised by the Government. The letter goes on to say— city. I can hardly believe that the desti- | their own purposes, raised an excitement tution there can be so great as has been by which they hoped to carry the repeal of set forth. Cork, it is said, has one of the the Corn Laws; it is little wonder the wealthiest corporations in Ireland; it is markets should have been disturbed, and said to enjoy a revenue of 70,000l. or that men's minds should have been excited. 80,000l. a year. And how much has this It is, I say, Her Majesty's Ministers, who wealthy corporation subscribed for the re- by concocting a false alarm-who by exlief of the people? 100%.!-100l. towards aggerating local appearances of scarcity "the relief of the starving people of Cork!" | into a general famine-it is they who have Why, Sir, can any man of sense believe caused an unnatural elevation of the price that the corporation of Cork, with a reve- of food, by raising a hope that those who nue of 70,000l. or 80,000l. a year, would subscribe but 1007. if they really believed that destitution existed to the extent stated by Her Majesty's Ministers, and in some of the reports laid before Parliament? But, Sir, I have other proof that the scarcity of potatoes cannot be altogether so great in the county of Cork as has been represented. I have a letter here from the chairman of the Great Western Steam Company, mentioning, that on the 1st of May the Olive packet arrived at Bristol with sixty tons of potatoes from the county of Cork. What are the gentry of Ireland doing? What is the Government of Ireland about, if famine prevails, that they do not buy up the potatoes and prevent their exportation? I hold in my hand a letter referring to another county, which, when distress prevails, has always been the first to feel it-I mean the county of Mayoand what states this letter? It is from Mr. Browne, who was once a Member of this House. It is dated April 21, 1846, and addressed to my noble Friend Lord Stanley. It is perhaps as well to state that Mr. Browne is the agent, I should rather say the cousin, of the Marquess of Sligo, and that he manages the Irish estates of that nobleman. The letter is as follows: "Market Browne, Monday 21, 1846. "My dear Lord-I have thought it right to permit three weeks to pass over since I last wrote, in order that I might be enabled to send your Lordship a report embracing the proceedings of these markets in our principal towns, and which generally regulate and determine the prices throughout the country: the markets of Westport and Castlebar, to which I refer, three weeks since, suddenly, and without any apparent cause, got into a very excited state, and prices of meal and potatoes advanced considerably." It is not at all wonderful that the markets should be excited when Her Majesty's Ministers alarmed the country by declaring there was danger of a famine. When Her Majesty's Ministers, who, in former periods, have been looked up to as speaking nothing but the truth, as accurately describing the condition of the country, have, to serve "But the two last market prices of potatoes and meal have returned to the most moderate rates, with supplies, which, both in quantity and quality, have never been exceeded at this season of the year-indeed, the supply of potatoes at Westport, last Thursday, was so great, that a considerable portion had to be stored from want of purchasers; and, at Castlebar, Saturday's prices were drooping, with a full supply and quality excellent: the present prices throughout the country may thus be quoted :-Perlor potatoes, first quality of the article, from 3d. to 4d. per stone; lumper potatoes, second quality, 24d. to 3d. per stone; oatmeal in the greatest abundance at from 14s. to 15s. per cwt. Here we have not the slightest excitement on the score of famine, or even scarcity; for every one feels confident that the former is impossible, while the latter, if it comes, can be easily met by the supplies already secured for themselves by the great bulk of the population, of merchants and petty speculators throughout and with the huge amount of oatmeal in the hands the country. In short, every day's experience strongly points out the exaggerated statements which the Government have thought it right to put forward as a foundation for their ruinous protheir poor potato allies. The county surveyor, ceedings, which will prove much more rotten than Mr. Best, a most intelligent man, and who, for the last month, in attendance at the usual and extraordinary road sessions, has been lately in every hole and corner of the county, no later than Saturday, in the course of a long conversation with me, told me that he had no fears about famine; that even a scarcity he did not think was to be apprehended beyond a period of three or four weeks between the old and new crop; and that he knew that there were ample supplies to meet every possible demand. The present distress, he says, is to be found in little over-peopled spots, the property of poor, negligent, or absentee landlords, who under any circumstances, must be wretched at this tation in saying that there never was such a deluseason of the year. He says that he has no hesision attempted as the idea of famine in this part of Ireland. Lord Lucan's agent also told me on Saturday, that he apprehended not in the least him instructions a few days previously to purchase even a serious scarcity; that Lord Lucan had sent fifty tons of oatmeal for his tenantry; but that he replied to Lord Lucan that he did not think it ne |