Imágenes de páginas
PDF
EPUB

may ascribe the calm and tranquil deathbed of the Christian, I think the fact cannot be gainsaid. The patience and constancy of the Christians in the first ages of the Church, during those ten long periods of toil and sorrow, when the fires of death were daily kindled, as well as the calm fortitude of the Reformation heroes, seem to me to establish, that the Christian's hopes are not mere dogmas that vanish at the hour of trial.

I remain, dear Sir,

Yours sincerely,

T. E. F.

Baptist College, Bristol.

MR. G. J. HOLYOAKE AND THE PROPOSED
DISCUSSION.

To the Editor of The Bible and the People.

DEAR SIR,

LAST evening, Mr. G. J. Holyoake delivered a lecture in this town, on "Confucius, or Morality independent of Revealed Religion." At its close, and after the Rev. Mr.Gutteridge, (Wesleyan Association minister) had offered some objections to the statements of the lecturer, I rose to recommend, that all the "Secularists" present should obtain the last number of The Bible and the People, and on reading Mr. H.'s correspondence with yourself, anent the proposed discussion, come to their own conclu sions. Being asked for an explanation, it was immediately afforded, as I was glad that Mr. H. should have the opportunity of putting the matter in his own light. Mr. H., on rising to reply, informed the audience, that the whole of the correspondence would be (or already had been, I forget which,) published in the Reasoner, and then he thought it would be seen that he had been anxious to facilitate the discussion as much as was in his power. Now this statement certainly left the impression on many minds, that the whole correspondence had not been published in The Bible and the People, and although Mr. H. might not mean any such thing, yet that gentleman's style of debate is somewhat distinguished for its loosely constructed sentences, and, unfortunately, this fatality seems to follow him most perseveringly into just those cases, where precision and definite clearness are more than usually desirable.

You will be glad to learn, Sir, that Mr. Holyoake still purposes holding

the discussion, but I am afraid from the statements at the meeting, last night, I cannot give you any assurance of an early day being fixed for it. Christmas is coming however, and so is the discussion, not before it perhaps, but certainly after, unless new obstacles should interfere. European freedom once achieved and we shall have the issue of the encounter. We have all been long desiring the advent of this freedom, and doing what we can to hasten it but we have now a new motive for wishing its speedy appearance. I am happy to see that the shilling subscriptions are gathered in. We may hope now, that Mr. H. will not again, till after he has met you, so entirely give himself up to a rather discursive philan thropy, as to leave himself no time for subjects nearer home.

I must not omit to mention, as a specimen of the latitudinarian style in which the Lecturer indulges himself, that he told us, in one part of the evening, he could never get the clergy to discuss; in another, that he did not want them to discuss, and proposed to alter "discussion invited" into "discussion permitted;" and later on still, he rung yet a third change, by assuring us, that if he accepted every challenge he should have his whole time occupied with that employment alone. As Sam observes, in "Uncle Tom's Cabin," "dis yer 'sistency's a thing what an't seed into very clar, by most anybody."

On my remarking, that "Why do the Clergy avoid Discussion ?" was an awkward looking sentence, should Mr. H. evade his meeting with yourself, we were told, that Mr. Brewin Grant was not the clergy. Now, Sir, we did not need that the Lecturer should come from London to tell us that, we all know you are not an incarnate clergy-list. But when the opponents of Christianity have invited to encounter a man whom they regard as a fair match for their champion, it seems at least unwise that Mr. H. should waste that time and strength so valuable to him, on meaner antagonists. He must learn better to economize his power, or I am afraid, European freedom is a long way off. Suppose Professor Alison had told us, that the Duke of Wellington put off the battle of Waterloo for six months, because-Napoleon was not the French.

I despair of explaining to you the lecture itself. We had Scripture precepts attacked, and Chinese maxims vindicated,-morality safely predicated from self-interest, (loudly applauded by an intoxicated gentleman near the platform,) and immorality deduced from the Bible,-virtue, the choice of friends, personal beauty, Confucius, and Mr. Cobden. Seriously, however, although the above were put into their proper arrangement, according to Mr. H.'s ability, and enforced by his eloquence, the Lecturer seemed to me to begin in a mist, to proceed through a cloud into fog, in an orderly manner, and at last quietly to settle down into darkness visible.

I have left the crowning point for a final sentence. Holding up to the audience the last number of The Bible and the People, and pointing to blank space which follows the last letter of the correspondence, Mr. H. proceeded to cap the climax. "I wrote a letter," said he, (I quote from memory,)" which would have filled no more than this space, and would have explained the whole correspondence. I sent it to be just in time,* but it has not appeared."

• He means, to be just too late.-EDITOR.

Now I think I have heard, Sir, of a Chinese puzzle which only requires that one piece should be put in one particular position and then no matter how the rest of the pieces are placed, the form is the one required. As Mr. Holyoakes's lecture was on Confucius, he might possibly be acquainted with this puzzle, and have been trying his hand at a copy. We must not pass judgment till we see it, as we doubtless shall, in next months' magazines, and then we may hope for a literary curiosity unparalled in modern times. May we take a liberty with Butler, and say,

"What makes that right, was wrong before?
Why just another letter more.'"

But then, Sir, if the letter was so short, and when it was written would have done so much, could not Mr. H. have spared just five minutes from European freedom, to have written it before. If the Lecturer means to imply, that every five minutes he had after the receipt of your letter, were filled up with things more important than a reply to it, then how he will find time for the dicussion itself it is impossible to imagine. There should be surely some understanding as to a definite time, for Mr. H. may go on accepting invitations like the one from the "Secularists" here, to the last moment of his life. You did not solicit the controversy, and I have reason enough to reach this conclusion, that Mr. Holyoake is bound by the morality which he has discovered, to be nobler than that of the New Testament, either to decline the discussion, or fix its occurrence within a reasonable time. Such a delay tempts me to the suspicion, that Mr. Holyoake is not only deficient in arguments for the advantages of Secularism, but has gone out on a voyage of discovery after the advantages themselves. It's a long trip, and we must wait. Yours very sincerely,

Rochdale, 16th Oct., 1852.

HENRY WM. PARKINSON.

VOL. II.

x 3

FINGER POSTS FOR CROSS ROADS; OR, HINTS ON FAIR

THINKING.

DEDICATED TO DOUBTERS.

No. I.* OCTORER, 1852. PRICE 2D. CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN MR. GEORGE JACOB HOLYOAKE, (AUTHOR OF Why do the Clergy avoid Discussion?) AND THE REV. BREWIN GRANT, B.A., (EDITOR OF The Bible and the People.)

THE greater part of this correspondence, having already appeared in our last, we recommend the "Finger Posts" to our readers for distribution, whilst for completeness we add the remainder of the correspondence, which Mr. Holyoake knew could not be inserted in our last.

REVEREND SIR,

LETTER X.

1, Woburn-buildings, Tavistock-square, London, Sept. 28, 1852.

For myself I have maintained silence in the Reasoner on this correspondence, supposing that it would not be made public except on its comple tion, and with our joint consent. With any inconvenience arising from the publicity you have precipitated, of course I have nothing to do.

I am not accustomed to the tone you assume in your last two letters. But when an opponent chooses to take upon himself the imperative, I feel disposed to leave him to pursue his own course, and wait to see what he will do.

After debating our views for six years, may I not ask, who is the Rev. Mr. Grant, that we should pause in our work of organization while that gentleman pronounces his judgment upon us?

You say, "it does not seem to you, that my engagements are more pressing than yours." Of this I need not observe more, than that of the order of my own duties I am the proper judge.

N.B. It is intended to print a series of this kind, which fair thinkers are requested to get sold at the entrance to Infidel Lecture-rooms, to shew the audiences the other side! Donations towards supporting a cheap literature of this kind will be thankfully received by J. Ford, Esq., Birmingham, Treasurer. Fair thinkers are requested to purchase and distribute personally, or by means of town mission agents, &c.-No. 2 will soon be published, entitled "IT'S ALL OVER; or, the last words of Mrs. Emma Martin:" by G. J. Holyoake and the Rev. Brewin Grant, B.A.-No. 3 is intended to be, "THE DEATH OF LOGIC: a reply to Mr. IIolyoake's Logic of Death."-Any literary contributions or hints on these questions may be addressed to the Rev. Brewin Grant, B.A., Birmingham; or to the Editor of The Bible and the People, (published by Ward and Co.) care of Borwick and Priestley, 24 and 25, London Wall, London.

[Ward and Co., London.]

I beg to repeat, that my first leisure shall be given to the replies required in your letters.

Yours faithfully,

G. J. HOLYOAKE.

To the Rev. Brewin Grant.

XI.

Birmingham, October 1, 1852.

MY DEAR SIR,

I

suppose you are aware that your letter of the 28th would be too late to prevent what you complain of,—the publication of our correspondence, of which you were advertised soon enough to send your views on that subject, as well as on others; your silence virtually gave consent, and it is not proper for you now to complain of what you thus allowed. Nor do I understand how you could "suppose the correspondence would not be made public, except on its completion and by our joint consent" in the same note in which you complain of its publicity, with which, therefore, you were evidently acquainted from my letter. I gave you very good reasons for the step, and waited for your reply; but none came till too late: still I do not see what harm is done, nor why giving the correspondence in explanation of the state of matters, to those who have been looking for a discussion, should in any respect impede the arrangements, or be made the occasion for reproach.

How long I must have waited for any definite termination, in the shape of an appointed time for meeting, it would be difficult to guess from the protracted nature of our correspondence hitherto. The charge of precipitating matters is certainly one from which, in this case, you are free; nor can I be very seriously accused of it, since the frequent delay, and the little information arriving after patient waiting, might naturally lead me to conclude that there was not much more to be expected from you. Besides the reasons for publication to answer enquiries by allowing persons to see what each had said, and the delay in your remonstrance till after the press was at work, it is, perhaps, sufficient for you, that I acted on your own example; for in a copy of the Reasoner, (No. 5, Vol. xii.,) I find "Hiram Uttley to Dr. Bayley (Letter V.,) Burnley, Sept. 23, 1851;" and annexed is the reply of Dr. Bayley (Letter VII.,) besides a letter of your own on the subject, and your observations on the Doctor's It is not stated whether this was by "joint consent; but I observe that in his case also he is treated at the end with opprobrium; and from the gentleman he was recognized to be in his first letter, he is declared in the last to be in "the garb of a priest, with all its dogmatism and ill-feeling." This is by no means courteous, whilst the publication of such correspondence in the Reasoner implies that you see no harm in doing what you complain of in me. It is a pity that courtesy, on your side, should melt away at the end of a correspondence which might lead to useful discussions.

communication.

[ocr errors]

However plain I may be in stating my opinions, or in examining your positions, it will be contrary to my desires if anything escape me at all

« AnteriorContinuar »