the interest of the whole United States that these balances should be done away. It is for the interest of the creditor States that no subject of dispute may remain-that the hatchet may be buried. Their balances are already funded; and if the debtor balances be extinguished these will be considered as sacred. And need I say that it is for the interest of the debtor States? They, year after year, have called for the extinguishment. With regard to the State of Delaware, the continuance of these balances is of the most serious injury to her. I know an honorable Senator from Maryland, who owns lands on both sides of the line which separates Delaware from Maryland, who cannot get as much by one-third for his land in Delaware, as for that within the borders of Maryland, although the land in Maryland is part of the same tract, and of precisely the same quality as that in Delaware. Is not this of some importance to the State of Delaware? is it not enough to distress, and essentially to check, the progress of her citizens in every laudable pursuit? must it not necessarily tend essentially to retard the improvement of her land, to depress trade and to paralyze industry, and all this without one scintilla of use to the United States or to any State in the Union? I hope the Committee, considering the subject in this view, will agree to the resolution, impressed with the opinion that it would be equally for the welfare of the United States, for those States which are debtor, and for those which are creditor, to adopt it.

H. OF R.

States, in conformity with the Constitution, and upon the most correct principles that could be established. No other method could have produced a settlement at all. And, further, it was well calculated to insure an equitable settlement at least, a more equitable one than could be obtained in any other way. Several of the States which were found debtor were then increasing rapidly in wealth and population, and are stili increasing, far beyond the creditor States, or any former calculations. Can it then be pretended, with the least color of propriety, that, under these circumstances, it was either unfair or unequitable to apportion the expenses of the Revolution according to the enumeration of the inhabitants of each State? In my judgment, the measure was correct and legitimate.

In order to show that the State of Delaware could not be justly charged with all the balance found against her, the gentleman has produced a supposititious statement, made by the Secretary of the Treasury in his report to Congress, on the subject of funding the State debts. This statement however was, as far as appears, wholly supposititious, not bottomed on a single data, and very probably introduced into the report with no other view than to induce Congress to pursue those measures with relation to the public debt which he was then intent upon. It cannot with any shadow of reason be brought in competition, or in the least degree to invalidate a settlement made by men specially appointed for that purpose, acting under the solemnity of an oath, and who spent much time and pains to make a correct and equitable adjustment of all the accounts.

Mr. ELMER. I agree in opinion with the gentleman from Delaware, who introduced the resolution on your table, that it involves in it an important and interesting question. And I am, with The honorable gentleman has further urged, as him, fully persuaded that every member of this an objection to the settlement, that the agent for Committee will weigh the consequence of it with the State of Delaware complained, at the time, of that seriousness and candor which it demands, and the conduct of the Commissioners in refusing to decide upon it, after the most mature deliberation, hear him in support of the claims which he exaccording to his sense of justice and propriety, hibited. But this, like most other objections, will notwithstanding any prejudices or preconceived vanish in empty air when fairly examined. I alopinions which he may have formed. But I can ways understood that none of the State agents by no means agree in sentiment with him, that were heard any further than to explain or elucisome mistake must have taken place in the settle- date their accounts. The agent for New Jersey, ment of the accounts between the United States I, know, was as fully debarred of a hearing before and the individual States, nor that any such mis- the Commissioners as the agent of Delaware. It take ought to be presumed of so serious a nature is perfectly clear to me, that it would have been as to induce the Supreme Legislature of the land to highly improper to have heard the agents; and I extinguish the balances found due from the debtor very much doubt whether all the eloquence of the States, by the strong arm of sovereign authority. honorable gentleman, aided by all the learned counUpon what foundation, sir, does this resolution cils of the nation, would have altered the opinion rest? What are the facts or reasons which have of the Commissioners, or produced a different reor can be adduced to prove the settlement errone-sult. Besides, it has not been shown that any of ous in point of principle or equity, or to justify his accounts were rejected; and, if not, it would Congress to abolish an important part of it? The have been perfectly idle to have spent time in gentleman alleges, that in apportioning the ex-advocating them. No partialities for or against penses of the Revolution, which proved so glorious, and happily relieved us from the tyranny of a foreign Power, among the several States, the Commissioners deviated from the rule prescribed by the Articles of Confederation, upon which the requisitions of the old Congress were founded, in a point which materially affected some of the debtor States. But it should be observed, that this line of conduct was authorized by the laws of the United 8th CoN.-29

particular States have been made to appear against the Commissioners, and none can, with any propriety, be imputed to them. The settlement, therefore, has the appearance of being as correct as the nature of the business and other circumstances rendered practicable, and ought to be maintained by the nation.

Mr. Chairman, could I be impressed with the propriety and justice of the measure, and could

H. OF R.

State Balances.

JANUARY, 1804.

I be persuaded that it would tend to strengthen the bands of the Union and promote the peace and harmony of the States, I would, with as much cordiality as any gentleman of the Committee, give my assent to the resolution on your table. But, sir, there are several objections which operate forcibly on my mind against it. I fear it would tend to destroy, or at least greatly to weaken, the principle of distributive justice, which is the band of our union, and which we are most solemnly bound to maintain and support with scrupulous exactness. The public debt, as has been well ob-mittee believe that New Jersey suffered as much served, arose out of the exigencies of the Revolution-it is the price of our glorious emancipationand the balances resulted from the equalization of that debt among the parties benefitted.

in a variety of ways, and with great ingenuity, to impress the Committee with a belief that the State which he represents was relatively hard dealt by in the settlement, and, therefore, in reason and justice, she is not bound to pay the balance due from her. But all his labor on this head will have but little weight. We shall probably hear the same tale from the members of the creditor as well as the debtor States, and the dispute on this subject would be futile and endless. I believe I could make some gentlemen of this Cominjustice, if not more, in the liquidation of the accounts than Delaware. In fact, sir, there are very strong reasons for suspecting that a State which was for almost the whole period of the war the theatre of hostile manœuvres, and frequently occupied by large contending armies, must have had accounts to a very large amount for military services, and supplies for our army in distressing times, in such an irregular and unsupported form as to be excluded upon the principles adopted for their adjustment. And whatever credit may be due to other States, and much merit is attached to all of them, I must contend that in zeal, activity, and energy, New Jersey was second to none. But I shall not dwell on this topic. Every observation of this kind is totally irrelative to the present subject. I rely upon the correctness of the settlement, which, I repeat, ought to be presumed, as it was made with great deliberation, under the solemn authority of the General Government, and in part at least ratified and confirmed by subsequent acts.

When pressing emergencies compelled Congress to call upon any State to furnish supplies or troops beyond her estimated quota, she always accompanied the request with assurances that she would be remunerated upon the final adjustment of the accounts. In consequence of this, great and efficient aid was frequently afforded to the common cause, which could not otherwise have been expected or obtained. When peace arrived, Congress did not lose sight of her promises, but, in 1787, constituted a Board of Commissioners for the apportionment and liquidation of all the debts incurred during the war, and clothed them with ample powers to distribute the most complete justice that was attainable; and the States were called upon to exhibit their respective accounts. After the adoption of the present Constitution, a law was passed confirming the ordinance of the old Con- After occupying ultimately a variety of less eligress, and prescribing the mode that was to be gible stations, the gentleman took his stand upon observed in the liquidation of the accounts. This what he styles strong ground, beyond the reach of solemn transaction, so long in maturing, could every assault. He asks how the debtor States never have been intended as a mere mockery of are to be compelled to pay? Will the United the parties concerned. It was predicated upon | States employ physical force, and lay them under Federal principles, and was designed to obtain sub-contributions at the point of the bayonet, with stantial justice. Thus instituted and appointed, the Commissioners proceeded, with great care and laborious investigation, to the liquidation of the accounts; and, after great length of time, struck the balances with as much justice as could possibly be attained. Some inequality of a partial nature might probably have taken place, yet none of a very serious nature can fairly be supposed. And shall we now, when the documents are destroyed, or placed without our reach, and without any evidence of incapacity or corruption in the Commissioners, proceed to disannul their proceedings by extinguishing the balances which they reported? I trust not. Justice and propriety, in my mind, forbid the measure.

Further, Mr. Chairman, the resolution on your table is objectionable inasmuch as it would exhibit to the nation and to the world an instance of inconstancy in our Councils, and thereby weaken the confidence of individuals and of the respective States in the wisdom and stability of the General Government. It has on its front an antifederal aspect, and in every point of view exhibits an incorrect principle of legislation, and extreme impropriety.

The gentleman from Delaware has endeavored

fleets and armies? No, this is not contemplated by any gentleman. We should all start at the proposition. But the gentleman himself has suggested a method of obtaining these balances, which, although I do not know that it is contemplated by any person, is certainly by no means repugnant to the principles of our Government; and that is, to fund a sum equal to the balance due to the debtor in favor of the creditor States, in a ratio proportionate to their respective credits. We, however, do not call upon them for payment in any way. We are content to let the matter rest in the present situation of business-and why should not the debtor be content? But it is asked why keep up this bone of contention, which does not contain an atom of nourishment? Why keep alive a spark which may be blown up into a desolating flame? But may we not ask, in our turn, from whence does this contention proceed; and what reason can be given for relinquishing a claim so well sanctioned? It would illy comport with that magnanimity and heroic patriotism which the whole Union has exhibited to the view of an admiring world, for the debtor States to refuse payment on a proper occasion. I cannot entertain the idea. The State of New York has

These balances, said Mr. T., were found due upon a settlement of the demands of the respect ive States for services and supplies during our Revolutionary war. Although Congress, no doubt, equalised the burden as much as possible, during the Revolution, it was found, at the close of the war, that the States had contributed to the common defence in very unequal proportions. It was well known that the New England States, in particular, had furnished more than their respective quotas of men and money. From a sense of this inequality, Congress submitted the debts due from and to the several States, to a Board of Commisers who, for several years, investigated the sub-missible. ject with the most minute and laborious attention. During this time each State had an opportunity to present and to substantiate its claims; and the report of the Commissioners has been repeatedly sanctioned by Congress. Although, as the gentleman from Delaware has said, the State which he represents was not heard before the Commissioners by its special agents, this was the case of all the States.

It is impossible, said Mr. T., as the gentleman from New Jersey has observed, to examine the ground upon which this report was formed. From the loss of documents, the lapse of time, and the vast extent of the subject, this is certainly impracticable. It is not even proposed by the mover of the resolution. The gentleman from Delaware Mr. THOMAS remarked, that as this subject had has not arraigned the motives of the Commis- been so often before the public, so much had been sioners, but he conceives that, upon a just settle- I said on it on former occasions, and he considered

903

H. OF R.

State Balances.

it so well understood, that he had determined not
to have risen or said anything on it at this time,
nor would he, had he not deemed it necessary to
reply to the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr.
THATCHER.) That gentleman has endeavored to
impress the Committee with an opinion, that by
extinguishing those balances we shall affect the
credits of the creditor States; this said Mr. T. will
not be the case; those States have received the
whole of the balances reported in their favor, and
extinguishing the balances reported against those
called debtor, cannot possibly affect the credits of
the creditor States; besides, if the credits of those
States could have been affected by a measure of
this kind, why did not the act of Congress passed in
1799 affect them? By the operations of that act,
about one-half of the amount of those balances
were extinguished had the States complied with
the terms of it; and he would ask the gentleman
from Massachusetts, or any other gentleman on
that floor, whether these credits, as they are called,
were impaired by that act? He presumed no one
would say that they were, nor can the measure
contemplated in this resolution impair them in
the least.

Mr. Chairman, said Mr. T., what possible good can result from a continuation of those claims? All agree that a payment of them cannot be coerced; and it cannot be expected that those States, believing the claims unjust, will pay those balances voluntarily; therefore, will your Treasury ever be a cent the richer by holding these claims over the heads of those States? Will it bring a cent into your Treasury? But, on the contrary, may not much evil result to the interests of this country by keeping up this bone of contention? Will it not have a powerful tendency to irritate the minds and disturb that cordial harmony so necessary to be preserved among the members of this Union? I trust the members of this Committee generally will see the folly of continuing the shadow of a claim over the heads of those States any longer, which can never be of any benefit, but which may be productive of much mischief, and will unite in expunging them from your

records.

Mr. STANTON. Mr. Chairman, the honorable member from Delaware, who introduced the resolution on your table for extinguishing the balances found due to the United States from the debtor States, says the aggregate amount is $3,517,582; the proportion of Delaware is about $600,000.

JANUARY, 1804.

Chairman, I ask where is the policy of this meas-
ure; can the Legislature relinquish these balances,
and at a single stroke, as with a sponge, wipe
them off, without violating the public faith de-
liberately and solemnly pledged? I hope they
will not; respect to the former Government, as
well as to ourselves, forbid the idea. But we are
told, by the advocates of the resolution, that it
never will be paid; if that is a sound doctrine, it
goes to prove the inexpediency of passing the reso-
lution. Mr. Chairman, this is turning the tables;
whereas it has been the practice for ages, that the
creditor call on the debtor, but in this instance
the old order of things is reversed, and the debtor
duns the creditor: this novel mode would suit my
circumstances well, as I am largely in debt; but
such a practice must not be indulged; in my opin-
ion it is dangerous to society. Sir, I will refrain
from bringing into view a comparison of the ex-
ertions of the States in the Revolutionary war,
lest a comparison should wound the feelings of
gentlemen. I am convinced that they all did their
utmost, and the exertions of the State I have the
honor to represent were inferior to none in the
Union. I can assure the honorable mover of the
resolution, that the citizens of Rhode Island have
the most reason to complain of the settlement of
any State in the Union; the reason is obvious,
the law under which the Commissioners acted,
was so framed as to exclude one-third of our debt,
by a clause in the law, constituting the board, in
these words-" Nor shall the claim of any citizen
be admitted as a charge against the United States,
in the account of any State, unless the same was
allowed by such State, before the 24th September
1788." In consequence of this clause in the statute,
three hundred thousand dollars, in the accounts
of the State of Rhode Island against the United
States, for services rendered, and supplies furnish-
ed during the Revolutionary war, was included.
Two of the Commissioners gave me this informa-
tion, and very much regretted that it was not in
their power to do us equal justice with our sister
States; they also remarked that the charges for
similar services rendered, were five per cent. on
an average lower than charges made by the South-
ern States. Sir, if it were practical to obtain a
revision of the settlement, I would, in behalf of
the State of Rhode Island, cheerfully embrace it,
under a full persuasion of extricating that State
I have the honor of representing from the severe
burden of taxation they are now struggling under.
Taking it for granted that a reconsideration cannot
be effected, I hope the resolution will be rejected.
Sir, if it should be asked how it came to pass that
our debt was so large, I would answer, in conse-
quence of the British fleet and army taking pos-
session of Newport, and all the valuable land of
Narraganset Bay, also Block Island, and remaining
three years in the bowels of the State, annihila
ting our commerce, burning our towns, plunder-
ing our inhabitants, dragging them into prisons,
and stripping the shores of their stock. Sir, I will
not longer trespass on the indulgence of the House,
but content myself by giving my hearty nega-

The honorable member from that State tells us,
with his usual pathos, and great zeal, but without
producing any proof, that the State he represents
is much injured by the settlement made by the
Commissioners for settling the accounts of the
United States with the individual States, that the
citizens of Delaware have suffered a diminution
in the value of their land, by having this enormous
debt hanging over their heads; at the next mo-
ment, the honorable gentleman asserts, that there
is no coercion in the General Government to oblige
debtor States to pay the balances. If his position
be correct, he may dismiss his fears, and so may
his constituents, the people of Delaware. Mr.tive to the resolution.