so forth, that under that kind of a system you think the American people could rely upon the advisory boards in the various sections of the country selecting more qualified men to practice medicine and surgery and the other specialties in medical care, and that the country would be pretty well safeguarded under that kind of system?

Miss HALL. By the same people who are practicing medicine now. Why would not they be a little better, if the reputable members of the community took a little more responsibility for the total health care of that community? I cannot see how it could help but jack up the system as a whole.

The CHAIRMAN. Under the present system and for many years it has been known that we had "quacks" and charlatans who deceive the people and sometimes extract heavy fees for services of no value whatsoever, and also in some cases there are operations performed for high fees when there was not any necessity for the operation at all, or where the operation could not possibly be successful.

That has occurred in this country, and everyone knows it, I am sure.

Miss HALL. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Under this system, you think we would be better safeguarded than under the existing system, because of the fact that you have a medical advisory board and the various communities advise with the Surgeon General in setting up the panel of doctors and qualifications, that we would not have to feel any fear but what the services rendered would be proper and efficient?

Miss HALL. This gives the doctors in the country official responsibility for the total health of the Nation, as I see it, for planning for it in a way that they have not done, and I cannot think but that they would rise to that.

The CHAIRMAN. I am sure that that sentiment exists in the minds and hearts of a great proportion of the medical profession today.

I know I have talked to some of the highest men in the medical profession, and they regret very deeply the failure of their own profession to have advocated some way of remedying these conditions long, long

ago.

Do you not find that to be true?

Miss HALL. All of us, I think, have talked to many outstanding physicians who feel very strongly that this would improve the work of the medical profession as well as the health of the country.

The CHAIRMAN. I am sorry to have compelled you to remain here so long.

You have been of great help to us, I am sure, and I want to thank you sincerely.

Senator DONNELL. May I ask just one or two very brief questions? Miss Hall, I am wondering if you have given consideration to this question under this bill, S. 1606, that an individual who travels much of the time, a traveling salesman, who makes his selection in his own home of a physician, and then he takes ill 500 or 1,000 or 1,500 miles away, is there any provision in the bill that you know of which would entitle him to any treatment at the place where he takes ill, and if so, what is that provision?

Miss HALL. I have forgotten how that is handled, if it is handled. The CHAIRMAN. If it is not in the bill, it is a mere matter of procedure which can easily be remedied.

Miss HALL. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. And upon thorough examination, it is expected that many amendments will be made.

Miss HALL. I do not remember anything in the bill mentioning that, but it seems that there is.

The CHAIRMAN. There must be, because that is very true in conne tion with the working people of the country. They travel back at. forth from the different States very frequently. I think that the mining population, in the city where I live today, is 75 percent different from what it was 10 or 12 years ago. I think there is a constant charg going on all the time, people going back and forth constantly, to select a more favorable climate, or more favorable conditions where they can get jobs; that is going on a great deal, and of course, some provisio has been made to protect people that belong to this system so that they get care where they go, to a different section of the country.

Miss HALL. I think one of the reasons I would be for a national bili would be to protect the mobility of the people in this country.

We believe that they ought to go where there are jobs, and woul have another chance. We believe they should be free and only under a national system can you do that kind of thing.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

STATEMENT OF MISS CAROLINE F. WARE, OF THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF UNIVERSITY WOMEN

The CHAIRMAN. Miss Caroline F. Ware, of the American Asse ciation of University Women.

ENDORSEMENT OF THE BILL

Miss WARE. I am glad of the opportunity to express to this cor. mittee the support of the American Association of University Wome for the National Health Bill, S. 1606. Many of our 80,000 members and over 900 branches, in communities large and small throughout t country, have been deeply concerned with the health needs of the communities. The fact that we have received more orders for o study guide, Medical Care for Everybody? than for any other gu which we have issued in recent years is evidence of the very widspread interest in the subject among our members, and their deter mination to study and inform themselves on the problems and issues involved.

On the basis of such study throughout the association, our corvention last May voted 11 to 1 in favor of Federal:

Measures to enhance the health and efficiency of the population, including continuation and expansion of the rehabilitation program for both veterans and civilians; an effective nutrition program; and Federal funds, if necessary, fot the extension of hospital and other public health facilities and personnel. The CHAIRMAN. I would like to ask you there, have you a copy of Medical Care for Everybody?

Miss WARE. Yes; I have.

The CHAIRMAN. Would you care to leave it with the committee! Miss WARE. I will be glad to.

Senator DONNELL. May I ask a question here. I do not observe :: what you have read as the action of the convention last May any spe

cific mention in terms of compulsory health insurance. Is that mentioned in it?

Miss WARE. Our latest program also includes extension of coverage of social security.

The national committees of our association, whose responsibility it is to interpret action of the convention in terms of specific legislation, have found that S. 1606 embodies the principles stated by the convention.

Our procedure is this: we never act on anything which we have not studied first. Then a tentative legislative program in terms of general principles is drafted. It is submitted to all the branches of the association who will study and discuss it, and they express their opinions. It is not a vote. It is simply an opinion.

Before the drafting of the program it is in the hands of two national committees, one in the field and one general legislative committee, and of course it is in the hands of the board. Then this proposal goes to our branches. cuss it and express their views on it.

They study it and dis

On the basis of the views expressed by the branches, the proposed program is revised and it is then submitted for vote by the convention in terms of general principles.

Then as each piece of legislation comes up, the legislation is referred to the same national committee, the committee in the field, in this case the National Social Studies Committee, and the Legislative Committee.

Then those committees determine as to whether in their judgment the principles voted upon by the convention include the legislation in question.

That procedure has been followed with respect to the bill at hand. Senator DONNELL. May I ask you one or two other questions. How large an attendance was there at the convention last May in which this vote occurred, of 11 to 1?

Miss WARE. The convention was not held physically because of the transportation difficulty. It was held by mail from each community, and the numbers of the votes were approximately 2,000.

Senator DONNELL. And that vote of 11 to 1 was in favor of "measures" down to the word "personnel"?

Miss WARE. Yes. And also approximately the same or slightly higher for the development of the social security program, including an extension of coverage, protection of veterans' rights under old age and survivor's insurance, and temporary and permanent disability insurance, and other items which I will not take the time to read.

Senator DONNELL. The two committees interpreted this resolution? Miss WARE. Yes.

Senator DONNELL. What is the total membership of those two committees ?

Miss WARE. Ten or a dozen people on each committee.

Senator DONNELL. So from 20 to 25 women constitute the membership of those two committees?

Miss WARE. Yes.

Senator DONNELL. And those 20 to 25 individuals have undertaken to interpret the meaning of approximately 2,000 persons' expressions?

85907-46-pt. 1-28

Miss WARE. That is a continuing process in our association.
Senator DONNELL. What is that?

Miss WARE. That is the way in which our democratic procedure works, just as you represent your district and interpret as an ind:vidual what you think are the ideas of your district.

Senator DONNELL. You state that "our convention voted 11 to 1." That should be revised to say that there was not any convention!

Miss WARE. Yes; there was a convention. It was a convention by mail. It went through all the convention procedures and according to the judgment of our parliamentarians completely conformed with the convention form prescribed.

Senator DONNELL. As I understand it, "convention" means coming together, "con venio."

Miss WARE. You will have to argue with our parliamentarians and the Office of Defense Transportation, who concluded that this was a bona fide convention. The procedure was all gone through. We used transcriptions for the speeches and in every way held a wartime convention conforming with the requirements of the Office of Defense Transportation and with our own bylaws.

Senator DONNELL. How many people were present at this convention?

Miss WARE. The delegates.

Senator DONNELL. Did you come together at all? Did anybody come together?

Miss WARE. No.

Senator DONNELL. And yet you call that a convention?

Miss WARE. Certainly.

Senator DONNELL. I doubt exceedingly if the Office of Defense Transportation would have considered you were violating any regu lation which was purely on paper and not actually accompanied by physical attendance.

Miss WARE. We did it in order not to violate the regulation.

Senator DONNELL. You realize, do you not, that there was no convention held?

Miss WARE. No; I certainly do not.

Senator DONNELL. I certainly do. There could have been no convention held when you did not come together.

Miss WARE. I am merely quoting the judgment of our parliamentarians on the basis of our analysis of the rules and bylaws, which call for a convention. It was not my independent judgment, please understand. I am merely giving the source of judgment that we held a convention legally, and conducted convention business last May. Senator DONNELL. But in the resolution which was voted upon by mail there is no specific mention of compulsory health insurance I am right, am I not?

Miss WARE. You have the text as I have quoted it.

Senator DONNELL. I say, I am correct in stating that there is no express mention of compulsory health insurance?

Miss WARE. Senator, you can read it.

Senator DONNELL. Could you just answer that question? Is there anything in the resolution other than what is stated here?

Miss WARE. Why do you ask the question when you have the text before you?

Senator DONNELL. I ask you, is there any specific mention of compulsory health insurance in the resolution adopted by the process you have described?

Miss WARE. I have read you the text. I do not see why you are asking the question.

Senator DONNELL. I just want you to answer it.

Miss WARE. Why do you want me to answer it?

Senator DONNELL. I want to know if there is any express mention of compulsory health insurance.

Miss WARE. Do you want me to read it?

Senator DONNELL. No, ma'am. I heard you. Was there any mention of compulsory health insurance in anything that your convention, so-called, adopted?

Miss WARE. I have read you the text.

Senator DONNELL. Do you decline to answer that question?

Miss WARE. I answered it with the text.

Senator DONNELL. May I ask you this, then: Is there anything in this text or anywhere else adopted by this so-called convention which contains express mention of Federal compulsory health insurance? Miss WARE. No.

Senator DONNELL. Very well. That is all right.

Miss WARE. There is express mention of temporary and permanent disability insurance.

Senator DONNELL. In what?

Miss WARE. In the item on the extension of the social security pro gram. Shall I read the full text?

Senator DONNELL. Does that appear in the action of the convention in May?

Miss WARE. Yes; it does.

Senator DONNELL. Would you read that, please.

Miss WARE. Again, by the same group.

Senator DONNELL. Which group is that?

Miss WARE. By the delegates.

Senator DONNELL. In this vote by mail?
Miss WARE. Yes.

Development of the social security program, including: extension of coverage; protection of veterans' rights under old age and survivor's insurance; temporary and permanent disability insurance; financial aid to the States to provide public assistance for those who are not covered by present categories; and the organization of the social security program into a unified system with decentralized administration, including protection of the principle of State administration.

The two items were both voted in the same convention in the same way.

Senator DONNELL. May I ask you, please

Miss WARE. May I read this, also.

Senator DONNELL. Yes.

Miss WARE. There was also an item relating to legislation in the interest of the consumer.

Senator DONNELL. Would you be kind enough to furnish for our records a copy of the pamphlet from which you have been reading? Miss WARE. I am reading from the record of the vote in the report on the convention as it appears in the summer, 1945, Journal.