The CHAIRMAN. Does that include all the labor? The CHAIRMAN. The inside factory cost for labor is 65 to 70 per cent; and in addition to that there would be the supervision, the salaries. What would be the total cost, or, what is the cost of the material? Mr. NICHOLSON. I should think it would be from 16 to 17 per cent. The CHAIRMAN. Have you ever figured on that? Mr. NICHOLSON. Yes; but it varies. The CHAIRMAN. But 17 per cent would be a fair average? Mr. NICHOLSON. I should think so, taking the period of three or four years. The CHAIRMAN. It varies from what to what? Give us the highest and the lowest. Mr. NICHOLSON. I should think from-oh, possibly 15 to 20 per cent-that range. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Miles speaks here of discount 70%, and 2 per cent on bills. Is that correct? Mr. NICHOLSON. I think that is correct for that small consumer on the high-grade Nicholson file. That would be about 76 per cent. NOTE.-Wherever discount of 70% and 2 was used in preceding testimony, witness had in mind and understood discount to be 70 and 2, as evidenced by his last answer specifying this discount as equivalent to about 76 per cent. The CHAIRMAN. There does not seem to be many files imported into this country, Mr. Nicholson. Mr. NICHOLSON. Will you permit me to show you some files [shows files to members of the committee]. That file there [indicating] is the sort of a file that is being imported in large quantities, and has been for twenty-five years. The CHAIRMAN. That is a very small file. Mr. NICHOLSON. That is a 2-inch round file, No. 8 cut. The cost of the material in that file has been enhanced in value 230 times by labor. The CHAIRMAN. What percentage of the cost of that file is labor? Mr. NICHOLSON. Practically the whole of it. Now, that particular file [indicating] is cut with 178 teeth one way to the inch and 267 teeth the other way. Mr. COCKRAN. Practically, what is that? Mr. NICHOLSON. That file is for watch makers and jewelers and fine classes of work. The CHAIRMAN. Does that amount to a very large percentage of the cost of this grade of file [indicating]? Mr. NICHOLSON. There are something like $80,000 or $85,000 worth imported into this country each year that by rights should be made in America, I believe. The CHAIRMAN. Do you make any here? Mr. NICHOLSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. How many dollars' worth are sold here? You stated that there were $80,000 worth imported. How many thousands of dollars' worth were made and sold here? Mr. NICHOLSON. Not to exceed $70,000 worth to-day, and yet we have been at it since 1885, working hard; and it is simply through lack of protection. Mr. CLARK. Mr. Witness, you are talking about your own factory sale, are you not, when you are making that comparison of $80,000 75941-H. Doc. 1505, 60-2-vol 3- -2 worth imported and $70,000 worth made here? You are simply talking about your own factory? Mr. NICHOLSON. No; I am talking about the factories of the United States. Mr. CLARK. The whole output? Mr. NICHOLSON. Yes, sir. Mr. CLARK. Then that will stand at about 60 per cent imported and 40 per cent made at home, roughly? Mr. NICHOLSON. I should say so. This is a character of file that is not generally made by the American manufacturer. Mr. CLARK. Taking the whole file business, the whole output, what per cent is foreign and what per cent is domestic? Mr. NICHOLSON. That comes into this country, as compared with what we make here. Mr. CLARK. What is the per cent of foreign imports as compared with the total consumption of files? Mr. NICHOLSON. For America? Mr. CLARK. Yes; that is, if you know. The CHAIRMAN. What is the total consumption in this country? Mr. NICHOLSON. I should think about $5,000,000 worth a year. The CHAIRMAN. The total imports in 1906 were-you say about $80,000 worth for this style of file, but the total imports were slightly over $80,000-no, a little less than $80,000-$76,777; but in 1907 they were in excess of that. We find a large excess of imports of every kind in that year. So that pretty much all of the importation of files into this country is in these small sizes, is it not? Mr. NICHOLSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And upon the others you have an absolute market? Mr. NICHOLSON. The American manufacturers have; yes, sir. Mr. UNDERWOOD. How do you describe this file under the present tariff law; under what subdivision does it come? Mr. NICHOLSON. Under the first and second clause, 24-inch files and under. Mr. CLARK. If you are right in your answer and the chairman is right in his figures, then the importation of files into the United States only amounts to 1 per cent, unless I have forgotten the multiplication table. Mr. NICHOLSON. It is not far away from that, 1 to 11 per cent. Mr. CLARK. That comes very near being a prohibitive tariff, does it not, as it is? Mr. DALZELL. You have the American market, excepting for the small files? Mr. NICHOLSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Nicholson, are you able to tell me what the percentage of labor is in files 7 inches in length and over, whether more material and less labor? Mr. NICHOLSON. I should think that the labor is pretty difficult to tell, but the labor cost bears a very important per cent to the whole. I should think it was in the neighborhood of 60 to 70 per cent at least. The CHAIRMAN. And on the 43 to 7 inch it would be less or larger? Mr. NICHOLSON. It would be larger. The CHAIRMAN. How large would it be there? Mr. NICHOLSON. Ten per cent, perhaps, as the file grows smaller and is more difficult to make. The CHAIRMAN. And how much more on the 2 to 4 inch? Mr. NICHOLSON. Here are 25 examples that you have there where the labor cost ranges from 20 times the cost of material as the minimum to 230 times the cost of material as the maximum. The CHAIRMAN. These are extreme cases, are they not? Mr. NICHOLSON. Those examples are largely the files imported to-day. The CHAIRMAN. Those are the small percentage of files imported. You have the labor cost there? Mr. NICHOLSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Have you any table showing the labor cost upon the different lengths of files? Mr. NICHOLSON. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Have you any table made up showing the average cost of labor on all of the files you manufacture? Mr. NICHOLSON. No; excepting my statement that I should say it was between 60 and 70 per cent. The CHAIRMAN. But you simply make it on the small files imported, which seem to be the only files imported? Mr. NICHOLSON. Yes; those are the only files that seem to be imported. The CHAIRMAN. And so far as the other files are concerned the tariff is practically prohibitive? Mr. NICHOLSON. The American makers have supplied the market for years. The CHAIRMAN. I should think they would, because the ad valorem percentage is larger than the cost of labor. Now, Mr. Nicholson, you do not need all of this protection, from the statement that you have made. Mr. NICHOLSON. Mr. Chairman, what is your ground for that statement? The CHAIRMAN. The protection is more than the entire labor cost, and there is some difference between your labor cost and the cost abroad. That is my ground for stating it in general terms. Mr. NICHOLSON. I should beg, Mr. Chairman, to differ with you to this extent: I think that if there ever has been a time in the history of America when this industry, and a number of others, needed protection it is to-day, on the ground, pure and simple, that these other nations have been very aggressive in adopting our methods, our machinery, our ways of getting at results, and they are to-day far more formidable as competitors than they have been in the years that have preceded. Now, the recent patent laws in England show that they can confiscate your property, practically, if you do not operate or work your machinery on which you have been granted a patent. The CHAIRMAN. Inside of four years that has been the case. wish we had the same patent laws in this country. Mr. NICHOLSON. So do I. Mr. CLARK. We are likely to get them, too. Mr. NICHOLSON. I trust so. Undoubtedly England will look out for herself in the next few years. The other countries are fast doing the same; they are shutting off our export field, and I believe that the great manufacturers in this country, who have been informed by the New York middlemen, will find a great deal of difficulty in getting into the markets on the lower cost. The CHAIRMAN. They have to buy their new machinery, and they can not do the work for nothing, can they? Mr. NICHOLSON. No, sir; but the materials, this sort of material, I have understood, has been sold in Sheffield for considerably less than we could buy it. The CHAIRMAN. What does your steel cost per ton? You need not give us any inside figures, but the wholesale price of the steel that you buy per ton. Mr. NICHOLSON. On the average, I should say $50 a ton to-day. The CHAIRMAN. A little lower than it has been, is it not? Mr. NICHOLSON. It has been pretty low for the last few yearsno; I can not say that it is. I should say that two years ago it was lower than to-day. The CHAIRMAN. That is the average cost, is it; $50 per ton! Mr. NICHOLSON. Fifty dollars to $55 per ton. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know what the cost is in England? Mr. NICHOLSON. We have heard of that same steel being sold for 1.8 cents per pound. The CHAIRMAN. Thirty-six dollars a ton? Mr. NICHOLSON. We have heard that. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know of any such sale as that? Mr. NICHOLSON. I do not know of it. We can not buy it; we do not attempt to buy it. The CHAIRMAN. Why don't you buy it? Mr. NICHOLSON. We do not want it. We believe in looking out for our American interests. Mr. HILL. If you could save $5 a ton upon the steel, that would overcome your sentiment and your feeling, would it not? Mr. NICHOLSON. Not if it turned thousands of men out of employment. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know how much the tariff is on that steel? Mr. NICHOLSON. I should say perhaps $18 per ton. Mr. CLARK. Mr. Nicholson, if the tariff is levied in the name of labor, do you not think that labor ought to get all of the tariff? Mr. NICHOLSON. I am afraid that they will not be able to get all of the tariff. Mr. CLARK. I know, because your slice comes off before it gets to them. Mr. NICHOLSON. If you will pardon me for expressing one little thought, I will say that I walked down this morning from the Willard and saw a pair of horses, a beautiful cart, all equipped with fruit, vegetables, and one thing and another. I can close my eyes and see the condition over on the continent of Europe, with barefooted women in rags, with a few Newfoundland dogs, or some other kind of dogs, hitched up with a string harness to the cart, and a few vegetables, that they are pulling around. Mr. CLARK. That is all very interesting, but that does not answer my question as I asked it, which is, if a certain tariff is levied on the American people-of course, that is exactly what it amounts to—in the name of labor, then ought not labor get all of that tariff? What right have you to gobble a part of it? Mr. NICHOLSON. Theoretically that may be true. Mr. CLARK. Yes; that is it. Mr. DALZELL. Mr. Nicholson, these samples that you have shown here represent the kind of files that are imported? Mr. NICHOLSON. Yes, sir. Mr. Dalzell. Can you describe those files? Give a description that will cover them generally. Mr. NICHOLSON. They are 44-inch files in length, generally, and under. Mr. DALZELL. Four and one-half inches and under would cover accurately the description of the kind of files that are imported? Mr. NICHOLSON. They are manufactured to-day in Switzerland and France Mr. DALZELL. No; how would you cover the sort of files that are imported and exclude the others? How would you describe, if you undertook to describe them, the files that are imported as distinguished from any other files? Mr. NICHOLSON. Well, the finer grades of files used by tool makers, watchmakers, dentists, and in all careful work. Mr. DALZELL. Would you have to describe them by the usage to which they are put? Mr. NICHOLSON. That would be one way of describing them. Mr. FORDNEY. Could not you describe that length and under? Mr. NICHOLSON. No, sir; you could not, because there are coarser grades of files. Mr. DALZELL. We have here mill bastard files, flat bastard files, regular single-cut taper saw files, and slim taper saw files, single cut. Now, is there any particular name that would accurately designate, as a class, the files that are imported and exclude all others? Mr. NICHOLSON. No; I do not know of any. I should not want to attempt it. Mr. DALZELL. Not as to the character of material used, or the fineness of grade, or anything of that kind? Mr. NICHOLSON. No; I should not want to attempt to describe it, Mr. Dalzell. Mr. DALZELL. Why don't we make those files? Mr. NICHOLSON. Because we haven't protection enough-we do make them; we make probably, of this kind of file, 40 per cent of what is made in America; maybe 50 per cent. Mr. DALZELL. I do not refer to you particularly, but to the whole manufacture. Why do not the American manufacturers make them instead of importing these files? Mr. NICHOLSON. Simply because they are made so cheaply in Switzerland and in France that they can overcome the duty. Mr. DALZELL. And that cheapness is due to what, the difference in labor cost? Mr. NICHOLSON. All sorts of cost, Mr. Dalzell. Mr. DALZELL. Labor cost and material? Mr. NICHOLSON. Yes, sir; and that is where labor cost is rather confusing. Mr. DALZELL. Now, I understand, Mr. Nicholson, that you said a while ago that you had been fairly successful in getting into foreign markets. What kind of files do you export? Mr. NICHOLSON. Only the standard makes of larger files, from this first list. |