nights if you had a horse railroad on Broadway? 265 A. That I don't know.

Q. Well, is that one of the reasons that you want a road there? A. I want a road to help my neighbors and friends and to keep the business in my vicinity during the day, and be patronized by the merchants, clerks, and the people that are gradually leaving me my old neighbors.

Q. You want to keep your old neighbors there? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Mr. Daniell and his friends? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, do you think that a railroad would help your bar nights--that is what I want to know? A. Well, I don't imagine that it would improve night trade very much.

Q. Do you think that a railroad on Broadway would be used much nights? A. That I cannot say. Q. Do you think it would? A. I don't think anything about it.

Q. Don't you know, as a practical man, that has lived on Broadway for twenty-three years, that the night travel on Broadway has almost left it? A. When the hotels are full below me-the Metropolitan and the Grand Central-and when Harrigan & Hart ran, we had a good deal of night trade, when the hotels were full and the theatre was running; now the theatre has gone, and it is a quiet season around there, and we are very quiet nights; but the theatres below us bring about a good deal of trade, and so do the hotels below us, as people stop in going and coming.

Q. But the general situation is, as you find it, that night travel is leaving you because the hotels below you are leaving, and Harrigan & Hart's has burnt up? A. Yes, sir.

Q. That was a good deal of a loss to your business? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, do you think, Mr. Ashman, that a railroad on Broadway, at night, if it was put there now, would help your business nights as much as it has hurt your business to have Harrigan & Hart move away there? A. I don't think it would benefit me to that extent.

Q. You don't think so, Mr. Ashman? A. I don't think it would benefit me so much, because what has gone won't return; Harrigan & Hart's won't be rebuilt for a theatre.

Q. You have made up your mind about that? A.

266

267

268 Yes, sir; and the St. Nicholas Hotel won't be rebuilt as a hotel.

269

Q. And the Metropolitan will never be successful as a hotel? A. I think it has been very successful. Q. You think it has been? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you think a railroad upon Broadway would make a hotel where the St. Nicholas was? A. I think it might improve trade if it ran to the depot -both to the Grand Central and the Metropolian ; I don't know where this railroad intends to run. Q. Would a railroad on Broadway, in your judgment, bring back any hotels there? A. No, sir. Q. Would it bring back Harrigan & Hart's?

Q. Would it bring back Brooks Brothers? A. I believe, if you will allow me, Judge Hilton intends to build a hotel where Harrigan & Hart's Theatre was burned down.

Q. Do you know whether he is in favor of this railroad or not? A. That I don't know.

Q. You have stated, in effect, Mr. Ashman, that a horse railroad would not help your business nights; well, now, do you think it would help it day-times? A. I think it would have a tendency to have the stores in the neighborhood occupied by tenants that would be patrons of mine.

Q. Do you think people would come down to buy goods-you think people coming down to buy goods and who pass your place might lunch at your restaurant? A. That is the idea.

Q. That is what you are after? A. That is what 270 I am after; I mind my own business.

Q. And you favor this road because you think it would help your lunch business? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is there any other reason why you favor it? A. That it will help my neighbors, and my neighbors will help me.

Q. Your neighbors help you and you help them? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Whom do you call your neighbors? A. Well, next door to me was Mr. Jessup, who failed and has just gone out-a very large clothing house; that was a door adjoining me, between myself and Astor Place; he has gone out of business; he came there with a very good name, I believe, from down-town, but has not made a success; the same people Mr. Daniell spoke of the Sloanes, and Brooks', Nicoll, Cowlishaw & Co., Sypher, and a great many others, and a great many retail dealers in that vicinity were

all patrons of mine, and they have all gone away 271 from me, and all leaving one by one.

Q. You don't expect to get them back? A. I suppose if they don't come some other good people will; the difficulty is that where they leave they leave a vacant place.

Q. And nobody steps in? A. No, sir.

Q. Now, Mr. Ashman, my point is not to get the names of your neighbors, but what you call the neighborhood that would be helped by a horse railroad in Broadway? A. Well, what I am looking to be benefited is from Bleecker Street to Fourteenth Street.

Q. Bleecker Street to Fourteenth Street? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Would it help any other part of Broadway, in your judgment? A. I don't know as to that; that is beyond my idea of the matter: I know the side streets are very much demoralized at present; it might benefit them very much.

Q. Now, do you own any other property in Broadway? A. No, sir.

Q. Do you own any other property in the City of New York? A. No, sir.

Q. Do you live in your hotel? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have you given any consent to the placing of a railroad on Broadway? A. I have signed the petition.

Q. The petition of the railroad that is before this Commission. A. That I don't know; I think so; I think it was this one.

Q. Did you ever oppose a railroad on Broadway? A. No, sir.

Q. Does your business take you down town much? A. I go to the markets a good deal.

Q. What markets? A. Fulton and Washington. Q. How do you go there? A. I usually go to Fulton Market by the Elevated Road, and very often go to Washington Market in the same way, in the morning.

Q. Do you use the horse-cars also? A. I generally go by Elevated Roads when I go to the market, but if I am coming down town I usually come down by the Fourth Avenue.

Q. If you were going down to Wall Street, how would you go down? A. Probably in a stage.

Q. But if you were going to either of the markets you would use the Elevated Roads? A. Yes, sir.

272

273

274

275

Q. Do you have many permanent boarders in your house? A. Very few.

Q. The effect of bringing more business to your bar nights, or more business to your restaurant daytimes, would take so much business away from somebody else, wouldn't it? A. I have no doubt it would.

By Mr. Scribner:

Q. Mr. Ashman, this Eighth Street road that runs by your house, do you remember about how long ago that was built? A. I think about eight or nine years ago.

Q. Is that an accommodation to the people who patronize your house? A. Yes, sir.

sir.

Q. An accommodation to yourself? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Would you like to see it taken up? A. No,

JOHN CATTNACH, sworn on behalf of the petitioner, testified as follows:

By Mr. Scribner :

Q. Mr. Cattnach, do you reside in the City of New York? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Your business is that of a trunk manufacturer? A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long have you lived in New York, Mr. Cattnach A. A few months more it will be fifty 276 years.

Q. Where, now, is your place of business, Mr. Cattnach? A. 736 Broadway.

Q. That is in the vicinity of what street? A. It is between Astor Place and Fourth Street, nearly opposite Waverly Place.

Q. Do you own the store in which you do business? A. No, sir.

Q. By whom is it owned? A. It belongs to the Hamersley estate; the will is being contested; Mr. Hamersley died about a year ago, and the will is being contested.

Q. Do you own any real estate on Broadway, Mr. Cattnach? A. No, sir.

Q. Are you the owner of any real estate in the city? A. No, sir; I am not, in this city.

Q. How long have you carried on business where your store is now situated? A. Twelve years.

Q. Previous to that, where was your place of

business? A. I was for thirty-five years on the 277 corner of Broadway and Wall Street, and for some years previous to going up where I am now I had a branch under the Metropolitan Hotel, 592 Broadway; twelve years ago I put them all into one.

Q. Then you have been familiar with Broadway as a street of the city for more than thirty-five years. A. I have been in business forty-six years on my own account, and a clerk for four years previous to that for another party.

Q. And all that time you have been familiar with Broadway as a street and highway of the City of New York? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, will you please tell us, Mr. Cattnach, your opinion as to whether a railroad on Broadway, between the Battery and Union Square, would be an advantage or a detriment to the people at large-the general public? A. Well, I think that a railroad between the Battery and Union Square would be better than none at all, but we ought to have one to go further up, I think.

Q. Well, I am speaking of a railroad between the Battery and Union Square, there to connect with the present existing railroad of the Broadway and Seventh Avenue Railroad Company running to Central Park; would a railroad between the Battery and Union Square, connecting with the existing tracks in Union Square which reach Central Park, be of advantage or detriment to the city? A. I think it would be a great advantage indeed to the neighborhood that I am in and to the whole city.

Q. Now, won't you please, as an old resident of fifty years in New York, Mr. Cattnach, give the Commission the reasons for the formation of the opinion that you have expressed that a railroad on Broadway would be an advantage to the general public? A. Well, sir, we see New York has extended up a great ways; when I came to New York the population was only about three hundred thousand; it is now over a million; the city has extended way up town; people want facilities for getting down; our business comes from way up, and it is nothing now for a person to come in my store and say, "I am in Seventy-ninth Street," and when they come down, "Well, I have not been down town so long;" they call that down town; we want better facilities for people coming down; it would increase the business very much, and would

278

279