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The witness was first duly sworn by the chairman.

Mr. CARROLL. I want to say, Mr. Chairman, that I came here to-day, and had no knowledge of the fact that briefs were necessary, but if I can be given reasonable time, I am quite satisfied I can furnish a brief to prove the two points I wish to make.

The CHAIRMAN. We will give you 10 minutes, and you can supplement it with a brief afterwards.

Mr. CARROLL. I wish to say that during the past year there has come to the knowledge of the laboring interests in New York City, in the printing industry (and I want to say that I represent something like 15,000 organized men in New York City), that one order has been taken from this country to Europe of 1,250,000 books. They were cloth bound.

Mr. HARRISON. What books were those ?
Mr. CARROLL. An American encyclopedia.
Mr. HARRISON. Funk & Wagnalls's?

Mr. CARROLL. I am not privileged at the moment to give the name, but it was an American book, and the major part of the editorial portion of that manufacture was also done in England. I want to say that there is another book that is going to Europe this year in the line of electrotype plates, that is to be printed on the other side. It is in the line of a premium that goes in conjunction with a magazine, as an inducement for the readers of the magazine to subscribe by the year. That job last year amounted to $200,000, and the plates are being transmitted to Europe this year and it is all to be printed on the other side and then to be sent on here. There has another affair cropped out in the industry within the last two years, to our knowledge, and that is the common printing, pamphlet, leaflet, and various pieces of printing of small and large character. The patent medicine manufacturers, who can get their advertising matter ready some six months before they want to put it before the public, are having their entire work done on the other side. I know of one piece amounting to something like 12,000,000 copies of a sixteen-page leaflet, about 21 inches wide by 4 inches long, and they took their mailing list to the other side and are bringing those into this country on a half penny stamp.

Mr. HARRISON. That, of course, would only be true from Great Britain, would it not?

Mr. ČARROLL. Well, it is being done in Great Britain, that is the information we have.

Mr. HARRISON. On account of the fact that that is the only country with which we have such cheap, postage so that it could not be done anywhere else?

Mr. CARROLL. The job I refer to is the Plexo tooth powder; it came from Great Britain.

Mr. HARRISON. Can you tell us what magazine is having this printing done on the other side ?

Mr. CARROLL. I can not say at the moment. I can probably include that in the brief. I know I can submit the evidences of the fact that the book is being done on the other side, for the reason the plates are PARAGRAPH 416-BOOKS. being shipped to the other side. The other matter I spoke of is an American encyclopedia, and they claim they can get the work done there for one-half what it would cost them to manufacture it in this country. We do know, from statistical evidences, that during the past 20 years the binding industry has practically left this country, and if this new feature of the question, which is the commercial printing, is allowed to go on without intervention, we feel confident that very shortly a great number of our men will be out of work. As a matter of fact, during the last year there has been a decrease in the working opportunities for our men of at least 10 per cent in every one of the 5 trades, representing 20 organizations. If I can be given time, Mr. Chairman, I am confident I can furnish the briefs along that line.

The CHAIRMAN. You may have until the 1st of February in which to file a brief.

Mr. LONGWORTH. To what do you attribute the fact that the work is being done in England ?

Mr. CARROLL. Because it is done so much cheaper on the other side. Mr. LONGWORTH. Why?

Mr. CARROLL. Because the wages of mechanics are much less than on this side.

Mr. LONGWORTH. Much less than on your side ?

Mr. LONGWORTH. And you feel that without a protective duty you can not hold the work?

Mr. CARROLL. That is right; we feel there should be an increase.

Mr. LONGWORTH. Do you feel that there should be a duty at least large enough to pay the difference in the cost of labor, the cost of producing these articles here and the cost in England ?

Mr. CARROLL. That is about the way I figure it, yes. I did know of a case where school books of the city of New York, books that required rebinding, would be sent to the other side and brought over here free of duty, and in that way it robbed the American bookbinders of an opportunity to get work during that time, the time that work was being done which was in vacation time when the big binding industries are practically all at a standstill. At least 35 per cent of the bookbinders in the city of New York are unemployed during the vacation season.

Mr. LONGWORTH. You would like a duty sufficient to protect your labor, as I understand ?

Mr. CARROLL. We should like that, if possible to get it. We have not any argument to offer you, gentlemen, as to what the increase should be. We only ask an honest opportunity to continue the existence we have been able to maintain through the organizations we have had for a number of years in New York City and throughout the country.

The CHAIRMAN. Did not one of the witnesses here this morning state that the labor cost was 13 per cent of the difference?

Mr. CARROLL. I was not here this morning.

Mr. LONGWORTH. He made that statement, as I understood, in a sort of general way of the total production of paper in this country. I do not know on what authority.


get it.

The CHAIRMAN. If we were to take the census report and ascertain accurately the labor cost of your industry and then put the tariff at exactly the difference in the cost of labor, is that what you wish ?

Mr. "CARROLL. We should like to have that, as to make it a competitive proposition.

The CHAIRMAN. And you would not want any more than that? Mr. CARROLL. We should like to see a fair increase, if possible to Mr. LONGWORTH. Let me ask you what proportion of the cost is labor ?

Mr. CARROLL. In the commercial printing practically all is labor. Mr. LONGWORTHY And the material, then, is practically nothing?

Mr. CARROLL. The material is practically nothing, the material is not of any consequence.

Mr. LONGWORTH. Would you not say that in your industry that at least 80 per cent was labor ?

Mr. CARROLL. When you get me down to statistics, I am not John Norris. I do know that the number of men employed to-day, as against the number employed in the commercial field in New York a year or two ago, has decreased at least 30 per cent in their working membership, and one of the reasons for that is the fact that this work is going on the other side and being brought in here through the mails. It is, in my mind, giving them opportunities in the mailing service cheaper than they could have them if they wanted to mail their stuff from New York City. I think our friend, the publisher who spoke a short time ago, strengthened my position in regard to the book proposition and the post-card proposition.

Mr. LONGWORTH. Can you state, of your personal knowledge, whether 13 per cent is not only a fraction of the labor cost in producing book binding?

Mr. CARROLL. I have not any idea, I know nothing whatever of the statistics. I am going to let you gentlemen take up the proposition of giving the American workmen a chance to continue the happy existence we have heretofore enjoyed, as against the conditions which obtain in European countries.

Mr. LONGWORTH. You realize that can not be done without a protective tariff, do you not?

Mr. CARROLL. I believe there should be protection along that line.

Mr. KITCHIN. The publishers sending these books abroad and bringing them back to this country, are they manufacturers ?

Mr. CARROLL. The book publisher of to-day is not the same as he was 20 years ago. Twenty years ago he was a manufacturer; to-day he is not a manufacturer at all, or at least with very few exceptions.

Mr. FORDNEY. Mr. Meyercord, who represented the National Association of Employing Lithographers, showed the difference between labor here and foreign labor--foreign labor to be 31 per cent of our labor over here.

Mr. CARROLL. I think that is near the figure. It is contended by some that the difference is 50 per cent, but I do not myself believe that is true.



The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.

Mr. BRADY. Mr. Chairman, I have nothing to add to what President Carroll of the New York Allied Printing Trades stated here. We are both down here on the same mission, and all the data we have in connection with the case will be filed here for use of your committee when you come to make up your schedule.

The CHAIRMAN. We will be very glad to receive it.


NEW YORK, January 29, 1913. Hon. Oscar UNDERWOOD, Chairman Committee on Ways and Means,

House of Representatives, Washington, D. C. DEAR Sır: On behalf of all the printing trades unions, composed of photo-engravers, compositors, stereotypers, electrotypers, bookbinders, and pressmen, I desire to submit to you, for the consideration of your committee when making up their schedules on printed matter, the following reasons why there should not be any reductiun in the present tariff rate:

When the present rate for books and printed matter was adopted, proper protection was given to the American workman because at that time, and up until a short time ago, the foreign manufacturers did not have the up-to-date machinery now in use. This machinery is of American manufacture and has been sent to Europe and installed in the establishments there, and owing to the low wage and longer hours, with the advantage of the improved machinery, the foreign establishments are enabled to turn out all printed matter at a lower labor cost than it is possible to produce the same product in the United States. The printed matter is shipped over here, and a duty of 25 per cent is paid on it. Notwithstanding this fact, it can be sold at a lower price than it is possible to produce the same article for in the United States. Any further reduction in the present rate will mean a severe loss to the entire printing industry. It has already been clearly shown before your committee that the manufacturers of books and printers are not to be confused or classed with publishers. Publishers are those who place the article on the market and have it manufactured in some establishment which is not their own. The manufacturers are the people whom we are pleading for, as it is they who employ the members of our unions; and we know from the condition of our trade during the past few years that there has been 30 per cent of our membership unemployed, and we feel that the cause of this is that the publishers, instead of having their product manufactured in the United States, are sending it to Europe.

Your attention has been called to the fact that on an encyclopedia with an edition of one million and a quarter volumes, and also on books by standard authors which are given away by magazines as an inducement for the people to subscribe to the magazine, while the first edition has been printed here, the plates for the second and following editions have been shipped to Europe, where they can be produced much cheaper. We are of the opinion that the publishers are only now beginning to realize the advantage that the cheap foreign labor is giving them over the American workman and manufacturers, and that if something is not done to rectify this abuse in the immediate future there will be a much larger percentage of our people out of employment than at the present time.

Another matter which we desire to call to the attention of your committee is the duty on post cards. It was thoroughly demonstrated to the Payne-Aldrich committee that the tariff on this class of printing was not sufficient to fully protect the American photo-engraver, with the result that they increased the rate, and now three-quarters of the post cards which were previously imported are being manufactured in the United States. We believe that your committee should continue this rate.

As for the bookbinding industry, on account of the low tariff on extra-bound and other books, this is a lost art in the United States, and men and women who formerly received high wages at this industry have been compelled to seek other means of employment and at a much lower wage than that formerly received.

PARAGRAPH 416-BOOKS. There is still another abuse recently called to our attention, and one which will become a very dangerous one unless some method is adopted to prevent it, and that is that the manufacturers of patent articles who do a large amount of advertising in leaflet or pamphlet form are now having this done in Europe, bringing their mailing lists over there and doing their printing and mailing from the other side. I believe they even have the advantage of a lower postage r te than they can secure here. If something is not done to curb this abuse, it will become an exceedingly dangerous menace to the future of the printing industry in this country, which is now classed as the sixth largest industry we have. Our members and people, painly through power of organization, have been able to secure fairly decent working conditions and, in most branches of the printing industry, a living wage. In one branch of it, however, where a large number of women are employed, at least one-half of the women employed in the industry do not receive what is supposed to be the lowest wage possible for a woman to support herself on properly in this country.

All of these matters are distinctly up to your committee, and while we appreciate that the last election by its vote for the pledges of the Democratic Party went on record for a revision of the tariff, we believe that it was a revision which would give better protection to the American workman and an opportunity not only to enjoy the conditions he may have at the present time, but that it would give him greater opportunities to secure better conditions in the future. In some industries there have crept in some very flagrant abuses on account of the tariff, but we are absolutely sure that this is not so of the printing industry; and we believe that while your committee no doubt will reduce the tariff in some instances where these abuses have been shown to exist, that they will commit a serious error and an irreparable injury to the printing industry in this country if there is any reduction in the present tariff rates. We are of the opinion that if it is the desire of your committee to protect this great industry, the tariff should be raised in some of its branches. It may be safely assumed that the larger proportion of our membership have voted the Democratic ticket, but when doing so they had no intention of voting for a reduction on a tariff which would work an injury to themselves, and we trust that your committee, when arriving at its conclusions on this vital question, will take all of these matters and the foregoing statements into consideration. This organization is ready at all times to cooperate with and assist your committee in every way in arriving at its conclusions, and we would appreciate very much your informingus as to what your decisions are likely to be on this question before same are finally adopted. Yours, respectfully,

PETER J. BRADY, Secretary.


The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.

Mr. FEENEY. Mr. Chairman, I have been requested to appear here for the International Brotherhood of Bookbinders, which is an organization which has in its membership the bookbinders of the United States. They will file a brief later on in the session, and I simply want to speak on one particular part of the tariff act, and that is regarding that clause in the free list allowing books printed over 20 years to be admitted free of duty. My belief is that when that act was passed by Congress it was the intent of Congress to include the binding of the book as well as the printed book.

Mr. Hull. How long has that provision been in the tariff law?

Mr. FEENEY. I believe for a number of years. But up to 10 years ago it was interpreted by the customs officials so that no book could come in if it was rebound without paying a duty; I think that was in 1902.

I want to say, Mr. Chairman, that up to 10 years ago we had over 1,000 men in New York City engaged in what is called art binding that is, the extra binding--and when that decision was rendered by the Treasury Department those books were sent from America to

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