Mr. ROSE. I can not give you any different information than that. Mr. DALZELL. Do you indorse these statements?

Mr. ROSE. Yes.

There is one other thing that I want to say to you, referring to these two cards that I brought here this morning. The cost of a set of plates before putting them on the press at all in this country is $12.50. Those foreign cards will be sold, delivered in America, duty paid, cardboard, printed, plates and all, for from $9 to $10.

Mr. CRUMPACKER. What do you charge for them?

Mr. ROSE. Two for 5 cents.

Mr. CRUMPACKER. You can not sell these at that price. They would be sold anywhere for a nickel apiece?

Mr. ROSE. No; not at all. The idea is this: A set of plates like this costs us $12.50. The printing would cost about $2. These people sell the cards, delivered in this country complete, freight and duty paid, for $9 and $10 a thousand; that is, in small quantity. In large quantities they will sell them as low as $3 a thousand.

Mr. CRUMPACKER. What can you sell them for and make a reasonable profit on the production.

Mr. ROSE. In lots of 5,000 we could sell those at $4 a thousand.
Mr. CRUMPACKER. And they sell them at $9?

Mr. ROSE. No; they sell 1,000 at $9, and that is what kills us.
Mr. CRUMPACKER. What can they sell them for in 5,000 lots?

Mr. ROSE. About $3 or $3.50. The idea of the thing is this: Nobody would buy those in 5,000 lots if they can buy 1,000.

Mr. CRUMPACKER. I suppose they are sold to wholesalers in large lots at low prices, and they send them around to the retailers, do they not?

Mr. ROSE. No, sir.

Mr. CRUMPACKER. Do you sell directly to the retailer?

Mr. ROSE. We do not sell on this class of goods, but these people do. We could not produce a thousand cards like this for less than $18 or $20.

Mr. CRUMPACKER. Of course, if you produced 1,000; but when you make a print of that kind you would print nine or ten thousand, would you not?

Mr. ROSE. No; we do not because those people will sell 1,000, consequently the American buyer will not buy larger quantities from us. Mr. CRUMPACKER. But a city like this would probably take a thousand, and we have a great many cities of this size.

Mr. ROSE. But that does not help us. It is the quantity of this one card, it is not the general number.

Mr. CRUMPACKER. Do you mean to say that a thousand of this one card would supply the United States?

Mr. ROSE. No; that is not the method of manufacture. These goods are made to order, and the view cards of Washington will sell in Washington.

Mr. DALZELL. I do not understand that you are complaining of the German cards that represent American cities, but post cards generally?

Mr. ROSE. Generally, yes. But following this one subject, while I am at it, I had occasion to investigate the price paid for labor on plates in Germany as compared with America. They pay their

artists from 18 to 35 marks per week; 35 marks is about the pay for the best men they have over there. We pay for the same class of labor from $15 to $35 per week. There the etchers receive from 24 marks to 30 marks a week, while ours receive from $24 to $30 a week; in other words, we are paying more than four times as much for labor as they are, and it is absolutely impossible for us to compete with them. Mr. DALZELL. The duty now is 5 cents a pound.

Mr. ROSE. Five cents a pound; yes.

Mr. DALZELL. What do you suggest the duty ought to be?

Mr. ROSE. The duty on these cards ought to be not less than 50 to 75 per cent ad valorem, or 35 cents per pound.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. Does that make a prohibitive duty?

Mr. Rose. Not at all; no, sir: Thirty-five cents per pound would amount to $2.80 a thousand cards.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. You say that they can lay a thousand cards down for $9?

Mr. ROSE. Yes.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. What can you produce them for?

Mr. ROSE. Eighteen to twenty dollars.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. With $2 a thousand, you would not be any better off than you are now?

Mr. Rose. It would be $2.80 a thousand, and that would make quite a big difference.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. $11.80 as compared to $18 cost in this country? That is a strong argument for a revenue duty, I must admit, but for a protective duty I do not see where you would come in.

Mr. Rose. We would come in in this way, and particularly on the other style of cards. I am more interested in other cards than I am in these. We do not publish these at all. We publish Christmas cards, holiday cards, general greeting cards, and art cards. In cards of that kind, where we print the stock, it would be a very fine protection.

Mr. GAINES. On the cards kept in stock, the duty would protect you, would it not?

Mr. Rose. Very much; it would be a fine protection.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. On the cards kept in stock now, what is the volume of business in this country?

Mr. ROSE. Well, I suppose there are made in this country several million dollars' worth.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. What are the importations on cards kept in stock? Mr. ROSE. It is very difficult for me to answer that, because post cards come in as post cards, without any classification at all.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. What is the total importation of this class of cards, post cards and all?

Mr. Rose. All post cards from Germany alone, in 1907, were 755,000,000 and some odd thousand.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. In dollars and cents, what was it?

Mr. Rose. I do not know, but I can tell you about what it would be. Mr. UNDERWOOD. About what?

Mr. Rose. About six or seven million dollars, I should say. That is only an estimate, you understand.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. What percentage of that are postal cards; can you make an estimate?

Mr. ROSE. All postal cards; nothing but postal cards.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. That does not include the cost of the stock cards then at all; you have no information as to the amount of cards that come in in stock?

Mr. ROSE. Those are what we call stock cards. There is another class of cards-if you would like, I can show you the class of cards to which I refer.

Mr. GAINES. Let us see them so that we may understand it.

Mr. HILL. Just a moment. How much does a thousand of this class of cards weigh [showing German view card]?

Mr. ROSE. From 7 to 15 pounds.

Mr. DALZELL. I see, Mr. Rose, that when post cards were before us before complaint was made that there was no uniformity of duty at the various custom-houses. At some places they came in at 5 cents a pounds as printed matter, others as lithographed cards at 25 per cent ad valorem, and at other places still higher rates under various classifications. What do you know about that?

Mr. ROSE. I know that some come in at 5 cents a pound.
Mr. DALZELL. Where have you had experience upon that?
Mr. Rose. Through importers of certain cards.

Mr. DALZELL. At what port?

Mr. ROSE. Philadelphia.

Mr. DALZELL. Is it 5 cents per pound there?

Mr. ROSE. Five cents a pound there, as a rule; yes.

Mr. CRUMPACKER. Is there any distinction made between the cards?

I see some of these contain mottoes.

Mr. ROSE. Yes.

Mr. CRUMPACKER. Are those admitted as printed matter?

Mr. ROSE. They all come in as post cards; everything as a post card.

Mr. DALZELL. There is no such classification in the tariff law as a "post card?"

Mr. Rose. Or as lithographed matter. These are the ordinary twofor-5-cents post cards, so called [handing samples of cards to members of the committee].

Mr. MCCALL. They do not come in as works of art?

Mr. ROSE. No; I do not think they do. Here is another class of card. Here is a card that comes in at 5 cents a pound also. These are what we call air-brush cards [handing cards to members of the committee].

Mr. DALZELL. Is this a foreign card [indicating]?

Mr. ROSE. That is made in my shop-all made in my place. Now, you asked me what I know about the tariff. There is a handmade card [indicating], and it comes in, I suppose, under the head of manufactures of silk, and supposed to pay a duty of 50 per cent. On Tuesday of this week I was in New York and I showed that card [indicating] to an importing house. He told me that he, at certain prices, imported similar cards. I asked him how it was possible for him to import those cards at that price at a duty of 50 per cent. He said that he got them through the post-office in small lots and did not have to pay duty. Of course, I do not know how he did it, but it seems that he did.

Mr. GAINES. What is your duty on cards similar to that? [Showing lithographed card.]

Mr. ROSE. Five cents a pound.

Mr. GAINES. How many in a pound?

Mr. Rose. From 7 to 8 pounds a thousand.

Mr. GAINES. What do they sell for ?

Mr. Rose. Two for 5 cents for the card that I showed you. These are the handmade cards.

Mr. CRUMPACKER. Was any duty paid on these cards that came through the mails?

Mr. Rose. He told me that he didn't have to pay the 50 per cent duty. What he did pay I do not know.

Mr. HILL. What is the duty on that [indicating]?

Mr. Rose. If properly classified, that is supposed to come in under the 50-cent duty as silk goods.

Mr. CRUMPACKER. Is this one of the kind that came in through the mails without duty [indicating]?

Mr. Rose. Without duty. I suppose.

Now, as to these handmade cards, they ought not to come in under 75 per cent duty. That is practically all labor, every bit of it, and that is the class of labor, the particular class, that certainly ought to have protection more than any other class. Men can take care of themselves, but that labor certainly should be taken care of.

،،

Mr. LONGWORTH. Is this card mailed [indicating] as it is? Mr. Rose. No; those are put in a little box, with the words " post cards ” labeled on the box. They are called post cards, but they are not post, they are greeting cards.

Mr. HILL. Did I understand you to say that you imported 800,000,000 last year?

Mr. Rose. Oh, no; I did not import 2,000.

Now, this is another class of work handing samples of cards to members of the committee]. That comes in under the same heading. Mr. DALZELL. This is not a post card. Does this pay the same duty as a post card?

Mr. Rose. It pays 5 cents a pound.

Mr. DALZELL. I do not see why it should. Is it printed matter ? Mr. ROSE. Lithographed matter. As a matter of fact, that particular thing is an air-brush card. It is all hand work, but they let them come in as lithographed matter.

Now, here is a sample of the calendar work [showing].

Mr. BONYNGE. Does this come in under the same duty, this card that I have?

Mr. ROSE. Five cents a pound. That, however, comes in at 25 per cent duty. [Showing a printed calendar.]

Mr. FORDNEY. What particular port does that come in?
Mr. Rose. Through any port or the appraiser, I suppose.

Mr. FORDNEY. But pardon me, I do not think you understand.

Do

you mean to say that one appraiser would admit that at 5 cents a pound and another will charge 25 per cent ad valorem?

Mr. ROSE. They seem to do it. There seems to be some doubt as to what is lithographed and what is printed; but most of that stuff in New York comes in at 5 cents a pound.

Mr. HILL. They can not come in at 5 cents a pound under the law

now?

Mr. FORDNEY. But he says that they do.

Mr. LONGWORTH. What is that called [indicating]?

Mr. ROSE. That is hand worked. That would come in either as lithographed matter or as printed matter at a duty of 25 per cent, and we can not compete with a 25 per cent duty.

Mr. HILL. The 25 per cent duty is limited to not to exceed 35 square inches, while that is a good deal more.

Mr. ROSE. Then what rate would they come in on?

Mr. HILL. I have not discovered that yet, but I think they would come in at 8 cents.

Mr. DALZELL. Could you make a description of these various things that would differentiate them so that proper duties could be put on? Mr. ROSE. Certainly, yes; for instance, if that card [indicating] came in at 8 cents, it would not have any protection whatever.

Mr. DALZELL. I understand, but will you file with the committee such a description of these various things as would enable us to differentiate them in the tariff bill?

Mr. ROSE. I will do that, although probably they will all come in under one heading.

Mr. HILL. The question as to whether it is 8 cents or 35 cents ad valorem is dependent upon the thickness of the paper, and I have no knowledge of what the thickness of this paper is, whether it is one one-thousandth or twenty one-thousandths of an inch.

That is

Mr. ROSE. I can not tell you myself. I can give you an idea of what we have to contend with in the way of labor. Here is something that I bought right here in Washington [indicating]. We pay for a set of paintings like that from $15 to $25 apiece. artists' work. We buy them in Germany from $2 to $3 apiece. If there is any industry on earth that ought to be protected, it seems to me that anything that adds so much to art and the education of the American public is entitled to consideration.

If we have this market, or at least the share of it that we are entitled to, there would be ten times as many artists and designers here as there are now. The United States Government certainly would not be any loser by marking this tariff what I claim it should be, because there will always be more or less cards imported on account of novelty of design, irrespective of price. The dealer would not have to pay any more and the consumer will not have to pay any more for the cards. There are popular prices at which the consumer buys post cards-two for 5 cents, 1-cent cards, the 5-cent card, and a few at higher prices. There are established prices to the jobbers and established prices to the retail dealers for this class of cards.

There is an initial cost of from $300 to $500 for drawing and making the original plate. If we print 1 card or 1,000,000 this initial cost of preparation is the same. If we print a smaller quantity the proportion of cost is larger than if we print a larger quantity. Nobody will be hurt by this duty, except the foreign laborers and manufacturers and the importers, of whom there are about 25 to 50 in this country. The importers do nothing except to sell goods. They only have a few clerks and salesmen. They are of no help to industry or labor. They go around the country and say that they can take orders cheaper than our home manufacturers can make the goods. Unfortunately that is true, and we can not deny it.