particular branch from $20 to $30 per week, and on the other side the men working at the same grade are receiving from $7.50 to $12 per week. I believe in making that statement that I have allowed in favor of the foreigner. I believe, because I have been told, not having personal experience in the matter, that a manager in a large bindery in London received $11.50, and that he was the only one being paid that salary, whereas I am allowing that the foreigner receives $12, a highpriced man. This makes a difference of little over twice the amount, and as the American is able to do more work than the foreigner, we claim that there is actually twice the difference. A large majority of the books that are bound by the American art binder are bound in imported leathers. For instance, that book there is bound in imported leather. On that imported leather he is compelled to pay a duty of 20 per cent. The papers that go on the inside of that book he pays a duty on of 2 cents a pound and 15 per cent, and on some paper 21 cents a pound and 35 per cent. On manufactured silk that also goes into the manufacture of books of that kind he pays a duty of 50 per

cent.

Mr. CLARK. How much?

Mr. BRASSIL. On the manufactured silk, under section 391.

Mr. CLARK. Suppose this committee and Congress should take a notion to cut down all this tariff one-half, would you still want this raise?

Mr. BRASSIL. Yes, sir. That is unkind of me, is it not? You say cut it down one-half?

Mr. CLARK. I was just putting a hypothetical case. I do not think it is going to happen.

Mr. BRASSIL. I think when I finish you will agree with me in what I am going to say. All these items go into the manufacture of an extra-bound book. The American is obliged to pay duty on these articles, whereas if a book has been bound by a foreigner on the other side and it comes to this port, it is allowed to enter this country without paying duty. The American workman is being taxed for the material that goes into the manufacture of the book. The book comes to our door, and it is allowed to come in free. We maintain that that is not right; that is not fair to the American workman. We maintain that that is an injustice to the American workman; that on account of his being an American he is being taxed. The foreigner sends the book in free. We request, therefore, that you amend that section to put the American in a position where he can be able to compete with the foreigner, not only by removing the duty that is on this material, because that would not be sufficient, as the wages are double in America what they are on the other side

Mr. GAINES. A former witness here indicated that it was not a question of price, but said that he could not get the American bookbinder to understand what he meant. How about that?

Mr. BRASSIL. I, unfortunately, was not present; but I read Mr. George Hayden Putnam's testimony on the copyright bill, and while his intimation is that it is necessary to send abroad for fine bindings. there is a sample done by a New York binder which you can look at for yourselves.

(Mr. Brassil here exhibited the book referred to to the committee.) Ördinarily at book sales a few years ago we would find adver tised the name of Macdonald, or some other binder, as having bound

a particular book that was for sale at the book sale that was to take place. I personally have seen books three copies of which cost a thousand dollars each for binding-copies of Evangeline. The set of 130 volumes of Dickens that was purchased by J. Pierpont Morgan for $130,000 was bound by an American. So that it is not a question of the American being able to do the work to-day. I say we have some men here who are teachers to-day. But if we continue to allow books to come in free, the workmen are being lost and we are going to continue to lose them. They are seeking employment in other lines. I was talking a short time ago with a representative of the union. He informed me that during the past year his average wage was $10 per week. I talked with an employer, an exceptional art binder, and he told me that that man was one of the best men in his line, that he was an honest, competent workman, and he averaged $10 per week. I also learned that since 1900 one-half of the binders, the men who actually perform the fine work, have been dropped from the union. They have sought employment along other lines. The statement that I have made, that of eight men who started in business since 1900 all of them made failures, shows that. Two men in business prior to that time have made failures. That is additional proof that the art is dying out. Why do we need protection? You charge all these men higher prices, on account of the tariff, for what they use. This country is recognized as a protectionist country, and the present tariff law was promulgated principally for the protection of the American workmen, and why, then, should you put in these clauses prohibiting men from getting employment when you.compel them to pay protection prices on the necessities of life? You should not do that. You should not put on the free list sufficient in books alone to amount to $3,000,000 a year. You tax these men who work, who are going out and trying to support their families, on everything they use. How can they pay these taxes, and still you put on this vast amount on the free list?

Mr. CLARK. If this additional tariff was put on, would the owners of these bookbinderies be willing to give all the tariff to increase the wages of the laborers?

Mr. BRASSIL. You have been asked so often to repeat questions. that I do not like to ask you.

Mr. CLARK. If there is an additional tariff levied, would these proprietors of the bookbinderies be willing to give the entire increase of the tariff to the laborers as wages?

Mr. BRASSIL. The increase?

Mr. CLARK. Yes.

Mr. BRASSIL. The employees are already being paid 100 per cent more than that received by the foreigner in the same class, and as we are asking but 50 per cent, the laborer is and has been receiving the full increase for which we ask, and it is because of this that we are unable to compete with the foreigner. If it were not for the fact that we are paying more than double the wages we would not be obliged to ask that you make a new paragraph which will protect us on books that will not be allowed to come in free under section 501 if you amend the present section by inserting the words " and bound " after the word" printed;" not under section 502, by inserting “bound in cloth or paper covers" after the word "pamphlets;" nor under

section 503, by inserting the words "not bound wholly or in part in leather," after the word "books."

Mr. CLARK. This tariff, you say, is for the benefit of the laborer. Mr. BRASSIL. We are not willing to give the entire increase of the tariff.

Mr. CLARK. If it is a question of wages, why is not the laborer entitled to the entire increase in the tariff?

Mr. BRASSIL. Because to-day, if the binder was to give all the increased tariff to the laborer, he would be conducting his business at a loss, the same as he would be to-day if he was binding at the present prices. We must divide. We will give some of the benefit that is derived from the increase in the way of giving wages to the men. A man that is earning $10 a week, it would put his wages up to $20. We would give him work so that he could earn $20 and $27 instead of $10.

Mr. CLARK. Why did he only earn $10 a week?

Mr. BRASSIL. Because he did not have the work to perform. He would earn from $20 to $27 if he had the work.

Mr. CLARK: I do not know what your theory is, but your statement is that the reason you want this done is to increase the wages of American laborers. If that is the reason for the increase in the tariff, the laborer ought to get the whole of the tariff and it ought not to go to the proprietor of the establishment at all.

Mr. BRASSIL. You have put that in such a way that it would be misleading if I were to make a statement and answer yes or no; but in giving an explanation I can answer correctly so that it would not be misunderstood: I will not give all of the increase to the men who work. The increase would enable me to give the men better pay than they are getting to-day, inasmuch as instead of loafing part of their time they would have steady work.

Mr. CLARK. It would not cost you anything, though, would it?

Mr. BRASSIL. Wait a while, now. I must conduct my business. A portion of that must go to the expense of conducting that business. If I perform a thousand dollars' worth of work it costs me a certain percentage, and if I perform ten thousand dollars' worth of work it costs me practically ten times as much as for one thousand dollars' worth. Therefore a portion would go to the operating of the business and a portion to the wages, and a portion of it would go to the employer.

Mr. FORDNEY. Then you would have your investment in the machinery.

Mr. BRASSIL. There is not much investment in the way of machinery. I fancy that to-day very few art binders have $5,000 invested in their plants. The principal thing is the tools, the fine hand tools.

Mr. HILL. You are entitled to an increase as much as the man who works for you, are you not?

Mr. BRASSIL. I do not know how that is. If I am conducting a business; yes, sir.

Mr. DALZELL. This purchase you speak of by Mr. Morgan, was the value of that purchase in the binding?

Mr. BRASSIL. No, sir.

Mr. DALZELL. What was it in?

Mr. BRASSIL. The value of that was in the illustrations, the illuminating and the binding. The binding probably cost $150 per volume. Mr. DALZELL. Per volume?

Mr. BRASSIL. Yes.

Mr. DALZELL. That was done in the United States?

Mr. BRASSIL. Yes, sir; in New York.

Mr. GAINES. Are these covers, such as this upon this book you have shown us, special designs, or are those designs conventionalized?

Mr. BRASSIL. That is a special design. At the suggestion of Mr. Little I am going to say to you what I was going to say later on. Under section 403 I was going to bring up the question as to why I would want an increase on the duty. There was one man who spent on the elaborating of that binding nine days. He received $27 per week. That is practically $40 that was paid for the actual labor on that cover.

As I say, on this book that man spent that much time-nine daysfor which he was paid practically $40. He worked nine days at $27 per week. If that book were bound on the other side, as it is practically all hand work it is reasonable to assume that the Englishman-assuming it was bound in England-would bind it as quickly as it is bound in America, and as the Englishman receives at the extreme $12 per week, he would bind it for a little less than $20. That book was bound for $50. The foreigner can sell it to an American for $30. The American is compelled to ask $50 for it. The difference is $20. The American publisher gets the foreigner to bind the book at the price of $30, and not the American at the price of $50. That is a practical demonstration showing the actual cost. There you have the time that was actually spent in elaborating that book. You will notice that it is all inlaid. It is really a beautiful piece of work, and it is work of that kind with which we come in competition.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. About your wage scale. Who fixes your wage ¿cale?

Mr. BRASSIL. In the extra binding, unfortunately-and I say unfortunately advisedly, too-we adopt the union scale and pay the union prices.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. Is that a reasonable scale?

Mr. BRASSIL. We pay more than the scale for any number of people employed. We have to pay the minimum price to people who are sometimes not worth the minimum price. In other words, for an artist, for a good man, a binder will not hesitate to pay more than the scale.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. Then, you think the scale is a reasonable scale, considering the cost of living in this country?

Mr. BRASSIL. Yes.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. And if you had enough work for these men to do under that scale, continuous employment, how much would a man make a month?

Mr. BRASSIL. As they would be paid from $18 to $30 per week, to multiply it is a simple matter.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. From $18 to $30 a week?

Mr. BRASSIL. Yes: $18 to $30.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. On the scale; that is according to the class of work they did?

Mr. BRASSIL. Yes, sir.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. If they had full time?

Mr. BRASSIL. If they had full time; yes, sir.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. The English scale is about $7?

Mr. BRASSIL. $7.50 to $12 a week; and I have taken the extreme on that $12.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. I just wanted to understand about that.

Mr. BRASSIL. Yes. So much in reference to section 501. Section 502 admits books or pamphlets printed in foreign languages free. We have no objection to books coming in here bound in cloth or paper We realize that any number of poor people have immigrated to this country and are making their homes here, and we do not wish to deprive them of books cheaply obtained, printed in their own language, but we do object to having books come in bound in extra bindings, bound in leather. It is the man who sends abroad and who brings them in with him, a connoisseur, and wants something for his library who does that. There has been during the past ten years a growing number of French books imported, bound by the foreign binder, and that, we feel, you ought to give us protection against. It is a reasonable request. When we say that we are willing to have the books bound in cloth and paper come in free, you ought to protect us on the leather binding.

Under section 503, libraries, colleges, or any societies established for philosophical, educational, scientific, or literary purposes are allowed to enter two copies of a book in any one invoice free. When Congress passed this law it is safe to assume that they intended that libraries should be allowed to bring in two copies of any book that was published abroad for the purpose of giving general education to the people who are readers; but they did not intend that the library should be allowed to send to Europe books that needed rebinding, to be rebound, which they are doing to the extent of thousands of volumes every year. They are depriving workmen, from whom they derive their support in the way of taxes, of the means of earning their livelihood, by sending these books abroad. To my mind no public institution should be allowed to send work abroad for binding, depriving the American laborer of a means of earning a livelihood and maintaining himself. Public institutions are maintained by the community in which they exist, and the people of that community should be the ones to derive a support when they have any work to give out.

Mr. CLARK. Are there any libraries that are silly enough to send their books over there to have them bound at those extravagant figures?

Mr. BRASSIL. Not at those extravagant figures.

Mr. CLARK. Public libraries.

Mr. BRASSIL. Public libraries are sending books over to be bound, and because they have the privilege of bringing in two copies in any invoice free, they will send thousands of copies in one shipment, but only two of one title, and in the aggregate it amounts to thousands of volumes, although of a single title they have only two copies.

Mr. CLARK. Now, they do that so that it will save part of the cost of the labor. Do you suppose the Congressional Library is doing that?

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